I'm giving in too.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

 

Except, that's just utter bull.

You're losing interest on your 60% deposit.  

While you could be getting 20% a year on it in the stock market right now.

Why dont you troll off and get yourself on mumsnet, they might believe you.

The trouble with the UK is people believe morons like this and go head first into property as an investment.

Moron.

Don't suppose you have considered hedging yourself by buying half a house ?

That's what I did.

I didn't literally buy half a house, I bought a whole one. Just not the best one I really wanted. Actually in retrospect I am quite pleased with it. But I still paid much less than I was going to.

Then when and if prices crash you will have the cash to trade up. Of course it may mean you are in a worse area than you would be otherwise, but provided the neighbours and schools are OK that normally counts for a lot. You can get a kick ass burglar alarm.

[PeanutButter]

The point about mental health is very important. You cannot allow this one subject to eat up your sanity, especially in times like these. Pointing fingers, looking for people or systems to blame is natural, but achieves nothing. 

Perhaps it would help to focus on something you can control.

[Trump Invective]

 

The point about mental health is very important. You cannot allow this one subject to eat up your sanity, especially in times like these. Pointing fingers, looking for people or systems to blame is natural, but achieves nothing. 

Perhaps it would help to focus on something you can control.

It achieves nothing, you're right. Lack of control is part of the mental health issue. Probably why voting brexit felt better than voting remain, and why posting on here sometimes feels good - the feeling you're DOING something apart from passively observing society. 

[Pmax2020]

 

I think many have reached the stage in life where they have kids before buying and can't do the 1 bed flat thing? That's only some ftbs though of course, but older folks are more likely to get annoyed with the situation and come on here maybe

I understand the frustration but I do feel prices are only wildly out of control in very localised areas, ie. London and the South East. I live near Edinburgh and while I do sympathise with people that would love to live in the city, I think you have to be realistic about what you can and cannot afford. It stands to reason that property will be dearer in more sought after areas, that's true of any commodity really.

I'm afraid I feel for most people it comes down personal choices. I'm in my late 30s and I have two kids that are not yet at school. I didnt want to be this old when I had my kids but my wife and I originally bought a tiny 1 bed house then 6/7 years ago bought a bigger family home that needed a lot of work done.

I think it stands to reason that property will always represent a large proportion of your outgoings because most people would love to live in a really nice, big, sought after home. You're going to have to aim low at the beginning to minimise the amount you lose to interest each month.

If I think back to 2006.... I could barely afford the worst flat on the market where I lived. 15 years later having made mistakes and even lost money on one place, I'm now in a position to get a £300-350K dream home because rates have plummeted. All I've done is paid a modest mortgage each month and I would argue property is cheaper in many ways today.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Pmax2020

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

 

Just a few more bears to turn and the crash will be on 😁

What was the straw that broke you, the repo extension?

People have said that for years now. 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

 

I throw this one at you as a glimmer of light - Covid, Brexit and all the economic sh!tshows have yet to be fully felt.

The Gov cannot afford the props and any further intervention is diminishing returns.

If Brexit pushes price of basics up those affordability calcs get rejigged.

Jobs hit from Covid and Bricks & Mortar retail decline won't return quickly and many will struggle - the Gov will remove help once it doesn't have to enforce a lockdown.

There is a lot of chaos and it feels like a vulture, but a friend of a friend who is BTL asked if I was looking to replace my car... he mysteriously wants to sell his. We've spoken about a dozen times before

Nope. The government will just extend and pretend. 

[Trump Invective]

 

I understand the frustration but I do feel prices are only wildly out of control in very localised areas, ie. London and the South East. I live near Edinburgh and while I do sympathise with people that would love to live in the city, I think you have to be realistic about what you can and cannot afford. It stands to reason that property will be dearer in more sought after areas, that's true of any commodity really.

I'm afraid I feel for most people it comes down personal choices. I'm in my late 30s and I have two kids that are not yet at school. I didnt want to be this old when I had my kids but my wife and I originally bought a tiny 1 bed house then 6/7 years ago bought a bigger family home that needed a lot of work done.

I think it stands to reason that property will always represent a large proportion of your outgoings because most people would love to live in a really nice, big, sought after home. You're going to have to aim low at the beginning to minimise the amount you lose to interest each month.

If I think back to 2006.... I could barely afford the worst flat on the market where I lived. 15 years later having made mistakes and even lost money on one place, I'm now in a position to get a £300-350K dream home because rates have plummeted. All I've done is paid a modest mortgage each month and I would argue property is cheaper in many ways today.

 

 

I think built into the HPCer mentality is the belief that house prices will crash. That leads to a lack of willingness to engage with the market as it is. We want to buy at the best time. Even at a good time. We give up hope when we foresee no best, good, or acceptable time to buy. For me, I can't buy, with a deposit of twice local average wages. So it makes no difference what happens but I'd still like the housing situation to change

[Trump Invective]

 

Nope. The government will just extend and pretend. 

True dat

[PeanutButter]

 

It achieves nothing, you're right. Lack of control is part of the mental health issue. Probably why voting brexit felt better than voting remain, and why posting on here sometimes feels good - the feeling you're DOING something apart from passively observing society. 

Achieving acceptance is far easier said than done. These are only my personal observations but helping others in some way (volunteering) and doing regular outdoor exercise are the two ways I've found to mitigate these sorts of negative spirals. Both take effort but they switch your brain away from whatever is eating you up, and that's key. It's almost necessary to view it as rewiring oneself. 

There are a couple of houses built on a bomb site near me. They're big semis, nice gardens, garage - all the trimmings. And I think to myself as I pass them 'I bet the people in there aren't happy.' You know why? Because they're built surrounded by absolutely enormous period properties that they have to look at all day. 

[Pmax2020]

 

I think built into the HPCer mentality is the belief that house prices will crash. That leads to a lack of willingness to engage with the market as it is. We want to buy at the best time. Even at a good time. We give up hope when we foresee no best, good, or acceptable time to buy. For me, I can't buy, with a deposit of twice local average wages. So it makes no difference what happens but I'd still like the housing situation to change

Are there other area's within a reasonable commute of work and family that you could afford to buy in?

It always blows my mind how much cheaper property gets in Scotland if you live out with the larger towns or indeed semi-rural. If you head 30 minutes away from Edinburgh or Glasgow you start to see some unbelievable detached properties on larger, private plots for as little as 300K. I know that's not to sniffed at but I'm talking about really impressive, larger family homes that you would otherwise think should be a lot more.

We've had no luck getting one of the popular period semis in our own town so tomorrow we are viewing an older detached house in a village that's barely 20 minutes from Edinburgh. (I dont live in Edinburgh but essentially work there). We cant afford what we want where we live so a slight relocation is on the cards to get the dream home.

[Wayward]

Something I expect we can agree on is that now is the worst time there has ever been to buy a house.

[scottbeard]

 

Then the question was whether buying or renting was better for me personally. My family situation and my spreadsheets modelling the costs said that for me, again I stress my personal decision, it would be best to buy. I did and have accepted that I handed over a lot of my earned and future earned income to someone who just got lucky by being born earlier. But we're happy in the house and don't regret the decision in the slightest.

Same here.   It was unlucky that I couldn't buy a house in 1975 or 1995, but I couldn't because I was not born / still at school.

So I bought one in 2011.  I had a number of reservations about it, but like dugsbody just accepted that whilst it's not fair it's still the right call.

However, the UK housing market is absurd, and I do realise that not everyone has the choice to buy or not.  After 13 years on this website I'm still not close to working out what the solution is...other than it does feel that a land value tax (not stamp duty) and actions that make BTL less lucrative (as the current government have in fact actioned, to be fair) would help.

[GreenDevil]

 

yup - Who gives a toss about housing anymore?!😂

If you’re doing well income wise, Just play the stock market, stuff your pension full thanks to tax relief and also buy crypto. Much more fun than lauding the idea that you can hang up a picture where you want.

And if you’ve got kids, claim benefits.

If you have over 6k your entitled to ****** all. 

[GettingBored]

I've pretty much given up as well, I really did not expect prices to keep rising. The government and the banks are doing everything they can to prevent a crash in asset prices:

• No stamp duty
• Zero interest rates
• Mortgage payment holidays
• Credit card payment holidays
• Help to buy
• Increased retirement age
• Increased the age in which you can access your private pension
• Buy now, pay later on literally everything
• Extended furlough
• Grants
• Tax write offs

I'm sure there are loads of other things I've forgotten but as a result we have many bubbles... stock market, house prices, Bitcoin (I know some of you will disagree), classic cars, art, collectables etc.

The Fed/BoE/Governments are back stopping everything. The national debt of the western world is never going to be paid down, it will get bigger and bigger until there is a reset (which may never come).

[msi]

Hard as it is to admit, acceptance of where we are is best for mental wellbeing.

 

That said, acceptance of the situation is not the same as acceptance that HPC was wrong and continual HPI is 'right'.  With all these props there is only one direction for house prices.

I'm going to enjoy the rest of my time here with people that matter to me. 

 

I am defeated, but not beaten.

[Unmoderated]

 

I think built into the HPCer mentality is the belief that house prices will crash. That leads to a lack of willingness to engage with the market as it is. We want to buy at the best time. Even at a good time. We give up hope when we foresee no best, good, or acceptable time to buy. For me, I can't buy, with a deposit of twice local average wages. So it makes no difference what happens but I'd still like the housing situation to change

I know exactly what you mean. 

It's like when I buy a rollover lottery ticket and believe I'll win. Similar feeling really tbh. Houses crash and via some miracle you're still employed and earning good money and you're able to get a mortgage just like that. 

There's a lot of harking back to a brief period of time when housing was cheap but all of that is beyond our control. We can only live in the moment and plan for the future. 

Best of luck!

[Trump Invective]

 

Hard as it is to admit, acceptance of where we are is best for mental wellbeing.

 

That said, acceptance of the situation is not the same as acceptance that HPC was wrong and continual HPI is 'right'.  With all these props there is only one direction for house prices.

I'm going to enjoy the rest of my time here with people that matter to me. 

 

I am defeated, but not beaten.

This has turned into the thread where we admit defeat. There is always hope, but for now we are losing the battle. The rebel alliance can't defeat the empire in real life.

[Unmoderated]

 

Something I expect we can agree on is that now is the worst time there has ever been to buy a house.

Oh if I had a £ for every time..............

[winkie]

 

[mark hughes]

 

Except, that's just utter bull.

You're losing interest on your 60% deposit.  

While you could be getting 20% a year on it in the stock market right now.

Why dont you troll off and get yourself on mumsnet, they might believe you.

The trouble with the UK is people believe morons like this and go head first into property as an investment.

Moron.

Just to be even handed here:

20% pa on the stock market is possible but highly unlikely for the average investor.

He is losing interest on his 40% deposit not his 60% deposit.

He can't both be losing interest on his deposit and making "20% a year on it in the stock market".

Average house went up by 5.8% over the past year so he has seen his entire house price increase by 5.8% rather than just his 40% deposit.

You are probably right to be giving up on a crash though, if it arrives its a bonus for you.

 

[wighty]

Isnt there double thinking here?.

If you accept house prices wont be allowed to fall and will continually be propped up, then buy (if you can and not just now).

 

This isnt a troll post - I'm looking to buy and downsize to release equity for my kids so they dont have to rent.

 

 

 

[Wayward]

 

Oh if I had a £ for every time..............

Next year might be an even worse time to buy...if TPTB get their way...but that doesn't take anything away from my point that now is the worst time there has ever been to buy.

[Orb]

I've given up too, these past few months. I never wanted a mortgage, mainly because the deconstructive side of me saw them for what they are, and I've always been militantly independent, never borrowing anything off anyone. In fact, the very idea of mortgages is preposterous to me. How did we evolve to be obliged to borrow 'currency' to be repaid with interest over a lifetime's slavery in work we'd rather not do, for a pile of bricks within walking distance of Waitrose? 

So I decided to upskill, double my then salary, and save, in the hope of affording something at some point in the future without needing a mortgage, no matter if it took til I was 40. 

The future arrived, I'm almost 42, and if property had gone up on a steady inflationary path, I'd now (or very soon) have enough for a modest 2-up 2-down in a reasonable area in my home town. As it turns out, it's enough for 50% of said property, or 100% of a grotty 2-up 2-down in the ar5e end of Hull or the wrong part of Liverpool. So it's either moving hundreds of miles away and buying a good burglar alarm, or get a mortgage for the remaining 50%. 

Like you Countofnowhere, I feel sick and depressed every time the government prop this charade up. I get depressed and withdrawn by never meeting anybody who thinks or feels like me. All I see and hear are people advising each other to "borrow as much as you can". And I end up socially withdrawing incrementally month of month, because either I've gone stark raving mad, or society has. 

Renting conventionally is just a no no. I wouldn't even consider it after 2 past experiences. I've spent my adult life lodging in decent enough rooms, and currently lodge in a granny annex in a quiet detached house in a cul-de-sac with one live in landlady who's hardly ever here. So how have I resolved my dilemma? I've decided to accept the madness, accept it'll never correct, and reinvent myself and my ambitions. I've set a goal of 18 months, by which I'll have £100k saved. Then I'll spend £20k on a good motorhome and live in that, much like tens of thousands who are estimated to be doing this in the UK currently. Living expenses will be so low that I will be able to afford to live on £10k per year. That's down to minimal tax being paid, combining housing and car into one outgoing, and accepting that there's to be no more saving. I can earn that £10k doing seasonal lorry driving in the busy 3-month run up to Christmas, Oct-Dec. And I've got (or will have) a side hustle which'll hopefully earn me a couple of £k throughout each year. 

I can't imagine this will make me any more depressed than I currently am. And I won't need to work as many hours as I do, meaning I can enjoy life a bit more. 

[captainb]

 

Isnt there double thinking here?.

If you accept house prices wont be allowed to fall and will continually be propped up, then buy (if you can and not just now).

 

This isnt a troll post - I'm looking to buy and downsize to release equity for my kids so they dont have to rent.

 

 

 

That was my conclusion around 2014 when I bought. 

If you are playing a game you need to know the rules. Complaining they are unfair is all very interesting but doesn't actually get you anywhere. 

 

The rules of the game for housing are not the same as other assets. Governments will prob them up, for many reasons one key one being a majority of their voters are home owners. 

Whether it is right or wrong is somewhat irrelevant as is whether it's what you want to happen or not. 

Still hoping to buy next level up at a small discount next year although if that does happen will prob be March 2020 levels.... 

[Trump Invective]

 

Isnt there double thinking here?.

If you accept house prices wont be allowed to fall and will continually be propped up, then buy (if you can and not just now).

 

This isnt a troll post - I'm looking to buy and downsize to release equity for my kids so they dont have to rent.

 

 

 

I think people can't feel comfortable buying in these circumstances, even if they can afford it.