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The CV19 crisis has brought everything to a head.

We can all see clearly what the establishment are about.

Everyone screams house prices to fall 15%, bankers/government lower IRs, steal £900Bn and push them up 10%.

People losing their jobs, they keep them in houses they could never afford long term.

Prices falling, lower rates more QE. I fully expect them to pay idiots to borrow to buy their houses off them soon enough.

Helicopter money for the masses so they can pay the bankers.

Savings rates 0.

Mass totalitarian control.

Mass propaganda.

if people haven't understood what is going on then let me spell it out.

The government and bankers will not stop down this path regardless of what destruction it brings to the people, the currency and the country.

IIRC Boris Johnson said in a mansion house speech ( or similar) that he knew house prices were insane but they couldn't let them  fall.  This was several years ago now, maybe 4.

So I am giving in, that's it for me, We are renting for the rest of out life, it is cheaper than buying, no hassle if you get a good land lord, flexible, can invest sensibly for the establishments new world/green deal and make a plan for the future.

Buying a house is a road to misery now that much is clear.  massive debt, massive control, little future.

If you're not on the pyramid then forget it, even if you are chances are you can't afford to move up the pyramid unless your moving from a rich area to a poorer one.

I think this post sums it up well....

 

Trump Invective

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Joke. Housing in this country is a sick joke. I look at those i know with a nice house and think "yeah, I'd like a bit of that". Then I discover how much they paid! I just want it all to go away. Ignore housing as one would a troll, if one can. Mental health is more important. Leave the market to it. Fill life with something else.

 

The government have broken me so I am giving up. 

It's having a bad negative effect on peoples minds and their health, mine too.

I'll come back if anything changes, but it wont.

Bye

 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere
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I'll post my further reply to Count from another thread:

Count: 

I was just going to start a thread along those lines....

 

Me:

I was one of those advocating patience. Now I've given up. It's just so depressing to even think about. HPC has made me feel some connection with others over the housing issue. I'm now not sure it is helping anymore because I dread another round of "this time it's going to happen" positivity that comes to nothing. 

 

So yeah block it out, only its hard to. Ill set a notification on my phone to wake me up at 50% drops, because until then I can't play, financially or emotionally.

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The CV19 crisis has brought everything to a head.

We can all see clearly what the establishment are about.

Everyone screams house prices to fall 15%, bankers/government lower IRs, steal £900Bn and push them up 10%.

People losing their jobs, they keep them in houses they could never afford long term.

Prices falling, lower rates more QE. I fully expect them to pay idiots to borrow to buy their houses off them soon enough.

Helicopter money for the masses so they can pay the bankers.

Savings rates 0.

Mass totalitarian control.

Mass propaganda.

if people haven't understood what is going on then let me spell it out.

The government and bankers will not stop down this path regardless of what destruction it brings to the people, the currency and the country.

IIRC Boris Johnson said in a mansion house speech ( or similar) that he knew house prices were insane but they couldn't let them  fall.  This was several years ago now, maybe 4.

So I am giving in, that's it for me, We are renting for the rest of out life, it is cheaper than buying, no hassle if you get a good land lord, flexible, can invest sensibly for the establishments new world/green deal and make a plan for the future.

Buying a house is a road to misery now that much is clear.  massive debt, massive control, little future.

If you're not on the pyramid then forget it, even if you are chances are you can't afford to move up the pyramid unless your moving from a rich area to a poorer one.

I think this post sums it up well....

 

Trump Invective

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  • Trump Invective
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Joke. Housing in this country is a sick joke. I look at those i know with a nice house and think "yeah, I'd like a bit of that". Then I discover how much they paid! I just want it all to go away. Ignore housing as one would a troll, if one can. Mental health is more important. Leave the market to it. Fill life with something else.

 

The government have broken me so I am giving up. 

It's having a bad negative effect on peoples minds and their health, mine too.

I'll come back if anything changes, but it wont.

Bye

 

Just a few more bears to turn and the crash will be on 😁

What was the straw that broke you, the repo extension?

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I’ve been watching and waiting for a crash for the last 20 years. Couldn’t afford 20 years ago, and DESPITE saving as hard as I can I’ve got NOWHERE. I’m still at the prohibitive multiple of salary compared the starter home, and paying off the mortgage for a number of landlords as I go. What I save each month, doesn’t cover what the property goes up by each month. I gave up on this website, maybe a few years ago - maybe I’ll check in again in a few years time, so unless anything changes, it’s a No from me for buying a home.

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Seriously, if anyone has anything positive to say about the housing situation, I'd love to hear it. Because even those who have made money on paper or worked house price rises in their favour are not immune from the housing issue. In some way, they will lose out eventually aswell. Unless you're Rishi rich.

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Buying instead of renting is an absolute no brainer if like 95% of the population you’re looking at a house that’s price is aligned with national averages.

The interest on my 60% LTV house is barely £200. I pay £750 per month which includes £200 of overpayments. To rent my place I would be at least £800-900. So why on earth would I give a landlord £10,000 per annum to live in a house when I could be banking nearly £8000 of that as equity.  
 

Look at a heat map of prices across the UK as a whole. With these outrageously low rates, the vast majority of property is very affordable. 

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Buying instead of renting is an absolute no brainer if like 95% of the population you’re looking at a house that’s price is aligned with national averages.

The interest on my 60% LTV house is barely £200. I pay £750 per month which includes £200 of overpayments. To rent my place I would be at least £800-900. So why on earth would I give a landlord £10,000 per annum to live in a house when I could be banking nearly £8000 of that as equity.  
 

Look at a heat map of prices across the UK as a whole. With these outrageously low rates, the vast majority of property is very affordable. 

OK I hear you and get it. So why is it that help to buy exists? Or intergenerational mortgages? Or impending 95% mortgage support being floated because banks removing high ltv deals creates a panic? Why ARE so many people renting when as you say they don't have to? Is it that the jobs people have are too insecure to get finance? 

If anyone can answer these questions please let me know

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  What people consistently fail to notice is that 'the normal' went out the window a long time ago as concerns the UK housing market. (and pretty much any Western property market)

  It hasn't been anything like a free market for decades - the UK economy depends on massive amounts of new credit being created through mortgage lending so the government will pretty much do anything to support prices and the market.  That means sacrificing whatever else they have to.

   Only a totally out of control general economic crash is going to burst the bubble.  Or of course if enough voters get dissatisfied with high prices that public sentiment turns - but even then, the govt will just pull more scams like 'help to buy','shared ownership' etc which easily gulled people don't seem to realise just keeps houses stupidly expensive and unaffordable.

 

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Seriously, if anyone has anything positive to say about the housing situation, I'd love to hear it. Because even those who have made money on paper or worked house price rises in their favour are not immune from the housing issue. In some way, they will lose out eventually aswell. Unless you're Rishi rich.

I don't. It is shit. Unfortunately, the primary driver is the macro economics of interest rates which for various reasons have trended down toward zero over the last 30 years or so.

I do not believe that trend will be reversed. 

Once I came to that realisation I decided I could wallow in my misery or just move on.

I have so many stories about people I know, either friends, extended family, people I've met at work, ex-partners family, that in the early 2000s despite my insistence that it was mad, took out 100%+ loans and bought properties in London. I thought they were crazy. One guy, a contractor I met once or twice through the extended network, not even a high end contractor, bought a five bedroom house in Wimbledon, living in the smallest room and rented out the rest to couples or singles. His mortgage was more than paid for by all that and I doubt he ever declared the income. I don't know if he ever sold the property as I can't remember the exact location, but looking at houses on that road they're selling for £1.5-£2m. 

As someone in the upper deciles of salary income, I would only ever afford that house in my late 50s or 60s and even then, why would I? I'd wipe out my savings. But this guy managed to buy it in his 20s and is now almost certainly retired early.

You bet that sort of thing makes me bitter. Not because he has done well, I welcome a society where people can do well out work or investments, but because his "doing well" comes at a direct expense to the rest of us who now cannot afford to live in the same type of house.

Anyway, I chose to move on to acceptance rather than denial.

Then the question was whether buying or renting was better for me personally. My family situation and my spreadsheets modelling the costs said that for me, again I stress my personal decision, it would be best to buy. I did and have accepted that I handed over a lot of my earned and future earned income to someone who just got lucky by being born earlier. But we're happy in the house and don't regret the decision in the slightest.

 

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Buying instead of renting is an absolute no brainer if like 95% of the population you’re looking at a house that’s price is aligned with national averages.

The interest on my 60% LTV house is barely £200. I pay £750 per month which includes £200 of overpayments. To rent my place I would be at least £800-900. So why on earth would I give a landlord £10,000 per annum to live in a house when I could be banking nearly £8000 of that as equity.  
 

Look at a heat map of prices across the UK as a whole. With these outrageously low rates, the vast majority of property is very affordable. 

Except, that's just utter bull.

You're losing interest on your 60% deposit.  

While you could be getting 20% a year on it in the stock market right now.

Why dont you troll off and get yourself on mumsnet, they might believe you.

The trouble with the UK is people believe morons like this and go head first into property as an investment.

Moron.

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I throw this one at you as a glimmer of light - Covid, Brexit and all the economic sh!tshows have yet to be fully felt.

The Gov cannot afford the props and any further intervention is diminishing returns.

If Brexit pushes price of basics up those affordability calcs get rejigged.

Jobs hit from Covid and Bricks & Mortar retail decline won't return quickly and many will struggle - the Gov will remove help once it doesn't have to enforce a lockdown.

There is a lot of chaos and it feels like a vulture, but a friend of a friend who is BTL asked if I was looking to replace my car... he mysteriously wants to sell his. We've spoken about a dozen times before

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OK I hear you and get it. So why is it that help to buy exists? Or intergenerational mortgages? Or impending 95% mortgage support being floated because banks removing high ltv deals creates a panic? Why ARE so many people renting when as you say they don't have to? Is it that the jobs people have are too insecure to get finance? 

If anyone can answer these questions please let me know

To get to that mortgage you need x salary and y deposit. 

Not everyone has that so those schemes are meant to badly help those in need. 

 

The massive change since even the early 80s is now the typical buyer is a couple who are both salaried not one person or a couple with one on a salary. People here constantly looking at 4 or 5x earnings miss that point entirely. It's also not going to change in my lifetime. 

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Except, that's just utter bull.

You're losing interest on your 60% deposit.  

While you could be getting 20% a year on it in the stock market right now.

Why dont you troll off and get yourself on mumsnet, they might believe you.

The trouble with the UK is people believe morons like this and go head first into property as an investment.

Moron.

You're the biggest troll on this website. Every day you attempt to get a reaction out of people with your over-dramatized, dooms-day commentary of modern life and the housing market.  Anybody that opposes any one of your views is a mumsnet moron. 

I agree that large swathes of the UK experience hugely, overinflated property prices but I don't accept that every single person in these areas has only 2 options; either buy or rent an an extortionate rate. People can commute or accept they simply cannot live in the area they work.

Moron.

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I think a big issue is that if I give up on the housing market, NOBODY gives a toss. I have no influence, no say. Houses will continue to be too expensive. So my decision to ignore it makes 0 difference. But all the time it is affecting day to day realities. Principally paying someone else's mortgage.

Hey, none of us on here are poor compared with billions of others in this world. But are we happy? Is housing creating cohesive, inclusive, FUN communities? Not while ££££ remains the principal symbol by which a roof and walls is judged. Any community happens despite housing policy.

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Buying instead of renting is an absolute no brainer if like 95% of the population you’re looking at a house that’s price is aligned with national averages.

The interest on my 60% LTV house is barely £200. I pay £750 per month which includes £200 of overpayments. To rent my place I would be at least £800-900. So why on earth would I give a landlord £10,000 per annum to live in a house when I could be banking nearly £8000 of that as equity.  
 

Look at a heat map of prices across the UK as a whole. With these outrageously low rates, the vast majority of property is very affordable. 

I'm guessing your mortgage is about £100k which means your house is £250k.

To start in your position, a potential FTB would need to have a £150k deposit.

Let's say you are 5 years in. Then they would "only" need £110k deposit. 

How many of these unicorns do you think there are around to prop up the market?

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yup - Who gives a toss about housing anymore?!😂

If you’re doing well income wise, Just play the stock market, stuff your pension full thanks to tax relief and also buy crypto. Much more fun than lauding the idea that you can hang up a picture where you want.

And if you’ve got kids, claim benefits.

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Gordon Brown stole your future

Remember everyone, the Tories have told you that nothing is their fault, everything is grand and if anything appears to be not grand and getting worse during their tenure then it is because of:

  • The last Labour government
  • Immigrants
  • The EU
  • The gays
  • Londonistan
  • Benefit work shirkers
  • Liberal elites
  • The woke
  • any other minority group

But definitely not the fault of the most powerful party in the history of the UK who have been in charge for most of the time. 

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Remember everyone, the Tories have told you that nothing is their fault, everything is grand and if anything appears to be not grand and getting worse during their tenure then it is because of:

  • The last Labour government
  • Immigrants
  • The EU
  • The gays
  • Londonistan
  • Benefit work shirkers
  • Liberal elites
  • The woke
  • any other minority group

But definitely not the fault of the most powerful party in the history of the UK who have been in charge for most of the time. 

What ever happened to the Irish? Got to be their turn for some distraction blame allocation... *peers across at brexit*

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Remember everyone, the Tories have told you that nothing is their fault, everything is grand and if anything appears to be not grand and getting worse during their tenure then it is because of:

  • The last Labour government
  • Immigrants
  • The EU
  • The gays
  • Londonistan
  • Benefit work shirkers
  • Liberal elites
  • The woke
  • any other minority group

But definitely not the fault of the most powerful party in the history of the UK who have been in charge for most of the time. 

Per the graph showing ownership in the different age groups on the other thread, it was under labour that the youngest demographic saw the most dramatic reduction in ability to buy a home, that has actually tailed off under the Tories. 

Under the current administration you've got better tenants rights, removal of tax allowances for land lords and a higher rate of SDLT for landlords and second home purchasers.

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I'm guessing your mortgage is about £100k which means your house is £250k.

To start in your position, a potential FTB would need to have a £150k deposit.

Let's say you are 5 years in. Then they would "only" need £110k deposit. 

How many of these unicorns do you think there are around to prop up the market?

Why on earth would a FTB be looking at a house that's akin to the national average? A price that's actually significantly higher than averages in Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland or indeed most of England as the figures are of course heavily skewed by London.

Are people not entertaining buying smaller houses and flats for 75-150K these days? 

Edited by Pmax2020
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Why on earth would a FTB be looking at a house that's akin to the national average? A price that's actually significantly higher than averages in Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland or indeed most of England as the figures are of course heavily skewed by London.

Are people not entertaining buying smaller houses and flats for 75-150K these days? 

I think many have reached the stage in life where they have kids before buying and can't do the 1 bed flat thing? That's only some ftbs though of course, but older folks are more likely to get annoyed with the situation and come on here maybe

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  • 441 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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