Tired of London: thousands flee capital for a quieter life

[PeanutButter]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/29/tired-of-london-thousands-flee-capital-for-a-quieter-life

Quote

 

In the leafy village of Essendon, just outside Potters Bar in Hertfordshire, florist Denise Moore is contemplating the reasons she left London five years ago. “I wasn’t really looking to move,” she said. “But my next-door neighbour moved to this village and I came to visit her and really liked it. It’s a lovely place. It suits my needs.”

Moore is one of a growing number of people who are leaving the capital each year. Figures from the Office for National Statistics released last week showed that 340,500 people moved out in the 12 months before June 2018, the largest number since the ONS began collecting data in 2012. London is now the only region of England where more people are leaving than arriving from other parts of the country – only international arrivals are keeping the population steady.

The exodus is having a noticeable impact on the city: 40% of places are unfilled at St Aloysius primary school in Camden, so officials have earmarked it for closure. Stamford Hill primary will probably merge with its neighbour, Tiverton primary school in south Tottenham, and other schools are likely to follow. A declining birth rate is one reason. Parents are leaving London faster than at any time in recent memory.

Everyone thinks they know why: knife crime, outrageous house prices, pollution that blackens your nostrils … But are these the real reasons for the unprecedented exodus?

“It’s quite tricky to give an honest answer to that question,” said Stephen Clarke of the Resolution Foundation thinktank. “Is it graduates leaving the capital because it’s too expensive to live there? Or is it young families being squeezed out by high house prices? Or is it older people who are sick of London? We don’t really have the data. It could be that these things happen when the economy is doing well, and when it’s doing badly people stay put.”

An easier question to answer is where people are going. The ONS figures show that big cities such as Birmingham, Manchester and Bristol get a fair share, but the largest proportion choose places close by: Dartford, Epsom and Ewell, Hertsmere, Epping Forest, Thurrock, Broxbourne – all on the fringes of London either within the M25 or just outside.

In Thurrock and Dartford, nearly two-thirds of all people arriving last year came from London. To the north, more than half of arrivals to the Hertfordshire districts of Broxbourne and Hertsmere were Londoners. Which raises the question: are people leaving London, or is London simply growing beyond the green belt and the M25, swallowing up villages the way it once swallowed the fields around Islington Green or the valley of Peckham Rye?

Essendon is on the menu for Londoners. The hilltop village, most famous for being the victim of a zeppelin bombing raid that destroyed its church in 1916, is a collection of finely manicured cottages, with trailing lobelia at every turn. Many homes here are owned by the estate of the novelist Barbara Cartland, who lived nearby, while outside the village the roads are dotted with estates owned by footballers and pop stars such as Tulisa Contostavlos, an X Factor judge who lived there until 2014.

 

Quote

 

So could London return to the doldrums of the 70s? There are risks, Brown says. “Because London has so self-evidently been the financial capital and business capital of Europe, and in some ways the world, people put up with the inconveniences of life. If it stops having that ease of access to European markets and international markets, then whether people are prepared to put up with things becomes more questionable.”

If Brexit leads to fewer jobs, if there are tougher immigration controls – about a third of London’s workforce was born outside the UK – if houses continue to be unaffordable and if the quality of life worsens, then “they could have a strong mutually reinforcing impact”, Brown said.

 

 

[Big Orange]

Also shocking, senseless incidents like this:

Plus the air pollution is really, really bad.

 

[winkie]

Moving to Potters Bar is not leaving London it is moving to an extension of London.....?

[Freki]

12 hours ago, Big Orange said:

Plus the air pollution is really, really bad.

But materially improving. I cycle to work into Holborn. Well this year is better, my nose is less stuffy. 

Corroborated by: 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/01/air-pollution-falling-london-millions-still-exposed

And we have the new ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone), now if the old taxi clunkers could get changed, and massive lorries banned. But it is going the right direction

[chronyx]

12 hours ago, Big Orange said:

Plus the air pollution is really, really bad.

 

No it isn't. I spent a year and a half scootering into and around London (So no pollen filters/Air con for me, right in amongst the traffic).  I felt fine - I've had more respiratory issues after a day on a dusty building site, crawling around lofts, or just after too many smokes on a night out. 

[Flopsy]

13 hours ago, Big Orange said:

Also shocking, senseless incidents like this:

Plus the air pollution is really, really bad.

 

The London air was better for me than the country  air with extreme pollen levels. Asthma and hayfever much worse. My partner on the other hand found it harder  to breath in London.

[winkie]

31 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

The London air was better for me than the country  air with extreme pollen levels. Asthma and hayfever much worse. My partner on the other hand found it harder  to breath in London.

Very true high pollen levels....as well as spraying of insecticides and herbicides, not nice breathing that in......Quality of air in London is not that bad, trees help, only pockets of high pollution, mainly idling traffic in dips.....and all this knife crime they keep talking about is all new, the MSM keep talking about it, can't get enough of promoting fear of others and fear of health....crime has always been there, in the past there was crime to the person like there is now.......part of the problem is the lack of prevention and increasing growing inequality.....the biggest problem London has is the very high cost of buying and renting to live there, perhaps that is why some people are not ready, willing or able to live there? I am sure some of the better off living there would love more of the riff raff to move out, better quality of life for them?

Quick edit......years gone by thousands more people used to smoke cigarettes....the air was far worse then.....coal fires, factories, chimneys etc.....the air has never been cleaner.

Edited July 1, 2019 by winkie

[APerson]

This is straight up white flight.

Looking forward to the next census - its going to be an absolute shocker.

[Orb]

5 hours ago, Freki said:

now if the old taxi clunkers could get changed, and massive lorries banned. But it is going the right direction

Careful what you wish for. If you ban 1 massive lorry, you'll need 2 or 3 smaller ones to carry the same quantity of goods - goods that Londoner's are consuming. And an increase of goods traffic will lead only to higher pollution (and more congested, more dangerous roads. As it stands, the Euro-6 emissions legislation for large vehicles makes them very very clean compared with just 10-15 years ago. 

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

"When you're tired of London, you're tired of knife"

Edited July 1, 2019 by Lord D'arcy Pew

[chronyx]

13 minutes ago, Lord D'arcy Pew said:

"When you're tired of London, you're tired of knife"

brilliant

[Fromage Frais]

2 hours ago, Lord D'arcy Pew said:

"When you're tired of London, you're tired of knife"

?

Working in Africa I was always told walk away from any argument even if it seems small as it goes straight to knives.  Sadly I have seen a few knife fights kick off and even a woman stabbed in-front of me for brushing off a cat caller in the street.

An Algerian man said they have a word called Hogra or something like that.  "You not have that in your country you are lucky" I said what is that?

"Its that dead eyed hate where life is cheap a kind of desperation/hate/lost state of mind".

It looks like it's either developed or been brought here.  Its often blamed on prescription drugs/opioids and hence why the sentences in places in Egypt etc are so harsh. 

 

[MARTINX9]

12 hours ago, winkie said:

Moving to Potters Bar is not leaving London it is moving to an extension of London.....?

Well it is a village just outside Potters bar - but the house prices are hardly cheap (e.g. £500k for a 2 bed terrace being the only house onsale there).

Still as you say its still really just a London suburb...barely 30 minutes from the City by train and about the same distance from central London in mileage terms as somewhere like Hornchurch which is still in Greater London.

I assume the article was referring to people moving outside the south east entirely?

https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/17700644.14-year-old-boy-in-hospital-after-potters-bar-stabbing/

Edited July 1, 2019 by MARTINX9

[PeanutButter]

9 hours ago, chronyx said:

No it isn't. I spent a year and a half scootering into and around London (So no pollen filters/Air con for me, right in amongst the traffic).  I felt fine - I've had more respiratory issues after a day on a dusty building site, crawling around lofts, or just after too many smokes on a night out. 

Yes your single anecdotal experience definitely supersedes the scientific evidence because lofts and cigarettes are exactly the same as exhaust pollution. 

Clearly London air is comprised solely of the farts of mountain angels.  

I shall alert King’s College that they can terminate their monitoring immediately.
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/london-air/id358970517

 

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, Fromage Frais said:

?

Working in Africa I was always told walk away from any argument even if it seems small as it goes straight to knives.  Sadly I have seen a few knife fights kick off and even a woman stabbed in-front of me for brushing off a cat caller in the street.

An Algerian man said they have a word called Hogra or something like that.  "You not have that in your country you are lucky" I said what is that?

"Its that dead eyed hate where life is cheap a kind of desperation/hate/lost state of mind".

It looks like it's either developed or been brought here.  Its often blamed on prescription drugs/opioids and hence why the sentences in places in Egypt etc are so harsh. 

 

I remember back in 2007 the criminal who stabbed a man to death because he told him to stop throwing chips on the bus. It’s only got worse since then.

 

 

[Fromage Frais]

1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

I remember back in 2007 the criminal who stabbed a man to death because he told him to stop throwing chips on the bus. It’s only got worse since then.

 

 

Its started to seep in here in Norwich.

The drug gangs from London are working hard to expand their network and we already have had a shooting and weapons are more common.

Once it sets in everyone will be packing knives etc to defend their turf against the incomers.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Fromage Frais

[Locke]

2 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

  Its often blamed on prescription drugs/opioids and hence why the sentences in places in Egypt etc are so harsh. 

Yes, because stating the actual reasons would b racist.

[highcontrast]

I know this guy is seen as bit of lite-Tommy Robinson, but he makes some very valid points in this video, well certainly about property prices in London anyway

 

[chronyx]

1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

Yes your single anecdotal experience definitely supersedes the scientific evidence because lofts and cigarettes are exactly the same as exhaust pollution. 

Clearly London air is comprised solely of the farts of mountain angels.  

I shall alert King’s College that they can terminate their monitoring immediately.
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/london-air/id358970517

 

True, anecdotal evidence is worthless.   I did see this on the KCL site thought:

"Often air pollution levels in most areas of London are sufficiently small to be classified as low according to the air quality index. When this index was created these levels were considered unlikely to cause any adverse health effects."

I do wonder what they expect Londoners to do with the info from this app though. Hold their breath? Still, one more thing to worry about, which is nice.

[scottbeard]

Quote

London is now the only region of England where more people are leaving than arriving from other parts of the country – only international arrivals are keeping the population steady.

It's only international arrivals keeping the UK population growing, full stop - without them all areas would eventually end up reducing in population.

[longgone]

5 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

?

Working in Africa I was always told walk away from any argument even if it seems small as it goes straight to knives.  Sadly I have seen a few knife fights kick off and even a woman stabbed in-front of me for brushing off a cat caller in the street.

 

 

Then when the knifes fail they get a car Tyre and make the victim look like the Michelin man before lighting them up. i guess the tires have a dual purpose of retraining the subject while continuing to fuel the slow burn. 

judge and jury African style. 

[LondonBound]

I’m moving out from SW London to Wiltshire next month for all of the above reasons (affordability, pollution, overcrowding, crime etc. ). And not just us.  My daughter has just finished reception at school and she is one of four out of thirty in her year that is leaving this summer.

For the price of a pokey Victorian terraced house,  my family can have a house that has twice the room and a garden the kids can actually cycle around. 

Yes the price could well drop this year (and next?) but it’s an easily affordable 20yr home not a financial investment. And having rented for five years, I can’t wait forever to deal at the perfect price. I have a   life to live.

London friends are almost uniformly jealous that we’ve jumped and those that can, are considering moving...

Not sure who’s going to be left to buy all those overpriced rabbit hutches!

[winkie]

Quieter life.....quiet is the relevant word..... travelling by tube is so very noisy, the high pitch screeching of the tracks on parts the Northern line is almost unbearable, many passengers have their fingers in their ears, like the tracks are wearing out........ travelling to work on the tube now is not a pleasant experience, noisy, hot, smelly and crowded...the reality of it all.?

[iamnumerate]

9 hours ago, scottbeard said:

It's only international arrivals keeping the UK population growing, full stop - without them all areas would eventually end up reducing in population.

Which would be wonderful.

[hotblack42]

1 hour ago, winkie said:

Quieter life.....quiet is the relevant word..... travelling by tube is so very noisy, the high pitch screeching of the tracks on parts the Northern line is almost unbearable, many passengers have their fingers in their ears, like the tracks are wearing out........ travelling to work on the tube now is not a pleasant experience, noisy, hot, smelly and crowded...the reality of it all.?

I've heard that the Northern line is awful.  I commute on the Central line & District (has a/c).  Year 1 was 5 days/week in office & I often experienced hot, noisy, crowded.  Now year 4 & wear noise reduction earbuds, know where to stand in carriage to maximise chance of sitting (sat from Stratford to Bank during peak this morning), jacket stays at work, work remotely Mondays and not at all on Fridays. Having negotiated decent pay and leave increases my net pay is close to what it was for 5 days in 2015.
Its possible to adapt.

Most would resent the rent I pay for a pleasant flat near Wanstead Flats and Epping Forest though.
Looking forward to hearing of 100s of thousands exiting London to take the pressure off space.
Rents are falling.  I'm going to look at a large double bedroom flat with secure underground parking this week that's cheaper (asking) than the  Double/Single + council garage I currently rent.
Hopefully I'l  cut a new deal with current landlord, Hamways though - a professional and courteous firm.