Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[dances with sheeple]

1 minute ago, ****-eyed octopus said:

Sorry, my post wasn't meant as a criticism - quite the reverse!

 

I know, I was just pointing out the limits of democracy to satisfy everyone, especially on these types of vote, and the absurdity of campaigning for years to have these referendum votes and then squealing to have them reversed or over-turned, maybe the public needs to vote on whether or not to have referendum votes? Bit late maybe?

[thehowler]

Wait, did Corbyn not even mention Brexit at PMQs today?

For real?

[rollover]

7 minutes ago, thehowler said:

Make Brexit great again.

I'm not too sure, if following Trump is good idea.
 

Quote

 

After Trump tweet: "Make america rich again" Wall Street shares tumbled yesterday, sending all three major indexes down more than 3% in some of the steepest declines in weeks. BBC

 

 

[thehowler]

2 minutes ago, rollover said:

15 minutes ago, thehowler said:

Make Brexit great again.

I'm not too sure, if following Trump is good idea.

I'm with you on that. Doesn't mean it won't happen.

[NuBrit]

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

I think it's far from clear that a WTO Brexit is what the electorate wanted/wants though, on the pro-Brexit side you had many referendum campaigners talking about how great life was for Norway and Switzerland outside the EU and they are both EFTA countries. It was only after the referendum that so many pro-Brexit politicians were radicalised into their current 'no customs union, no single market' WTO Brexit position. WTO Brexit should be explicitly put to the people in a second referendum, if that's what they want then just tick the box.

This, exactly.

If there was a parliamentary vote on a WTO style Brexit, how many MP's would support it, 60, 70? If there was a referendum on the same, would it get a majority?

It seems like it would be undemocratic if anything to plow ahead with a WTO style Brexit.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, rollover said:

I'm not too sure, if following Trump is good idea.

Errr..... MAKE THE UK RICH AGAIN (OR AT LEAST NOT SLIGHTLY LESS WEALTHY IN RAW GDP TERMS, THAN ECONOMIC MODELS GUESS IT MIGHT OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN) is the remainer cry.

The leaver cry would be more akin to MAKE THE UK (RELATIVELY) INDEPENDENT AGAIN.

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, ****-eyed octopus said:

Now that is a revelation. I was told all Scots (apart from complete knuckle-draggers) voted remain.

Edinburgh though. Probably English.

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, thehowler said:

I see Liz Kendall Labour MP thinks it'll be a 2nd ref with Labour backing remain. Good chance the Tories will take the other option.

On these constitutional/values questions does it really matter which side each party supports? Voters know they aren't electing a government. Let a thousand flowers bloom: Labour Leave, Labour for EFTA, Tories for Remain, UKIP for a Federal Europe etc etc.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Dorkins

[Locke]

1 hour ago, Lord D'arcy Pew said:

Frail bodies and strong minds vs strong bodies and frail minds.

With the right trigger word most Millennials will run away and hide in their safe space.

The octogenarians will hunt down the young like triffids stalking the blind.?

 

This is your average millennial

So I'm not sure where you got "strong body" from

[Chunketh]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

I'm not too sure, if following Trump is good idea.
 

 

I'm not sure if he understands how tariffs work. Simple things seem to elude him on a near constant basis.

[smash]

20 minutes ago, Locke said:

This is your average millennial

So I'm not sure where you got "strong body" from

Oh, my goodness what an extraordinary thing to say. "Average millennial" and ideas about physicality. You're that right wing libertarian aren't you?

[frederico]

Millennials are to busy trying to work out what the fudge to do in life after being railroaded through a useless education system run by loonies.

Yes you get the odd geeky twit doing a vox pop, but most of them aren't out of bed in time for when the polling station closes.

The thought of allowing 16 year olds the vote beggars belief.

[smash]

11 minutes ago, frederico said:

Millennials are to busy trying to work out what the fudge to do in life after being railroaded through a useless education system run by loonies.

Yes you get the odd geeky twit doing a vox pop, but most of them aren't out of bed in time for when the polling station closes.

The thought of allowing 16 year olds the vote beggars belief.

A great many of pensioners are genuinely, actually demented. What's your point?

[frederico]

4 minutes ago, smash said:

A great many of pensioners are genuinely, actually demented. What's your point?

I've forgotten, more tea vicar?

[kzb]

Let's get the generations right:

Millennials came of age in 2000.  They are in their mid to late 30's now.

[cock-eyed octopus]

1 hour ago, grasshopper said:

No. Many of  just take a different view on how best to secure the prosperity of the working class given the power of capital in the current global economy.

This debate looks remarkable similar to that between on the one hand Stalin and Bukarin, Socialism in One Country v Trotsky's, Theory of Permanent Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country?wprov=sfla1

It would appear Trotsky's analysis proved to be correct and the Russian Revolution, for good or ill, was eventually crushed by the combined forces of global capitalism.

I do not know how this will play out, but with people like JRM and BJ et al, leading the call for a hard Brexit I am not convinced that the welfare of the workers will be foremost in their minds.

I don't think their welfare is their uppermost concern either, but the history of this nation has led to a form of (imperfect) democracy & I would argue that this is down to the rulers realising it's the best way for them to maximize their wealth & keep their heads off the chopping block. Long term self-interest.

So I don't trust such people. BUT I can vote them out. And I trust them far more than nice uncle Jeremy (surrounded by less savoury cohorts) who know what's best for me (shudder).

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, kzb said:

Let's get the generations right:

Millennials came of age in 2000.  They are in their mid to late 30's now.

We need to think about the effects on the yoof. 

@ 0:13: "I'm going to Australia next year, but with the pound dropping my savings just disappeared, basically"

Did Farage eat them? If the UK <> EU interaction is important, why not spend your year out on the continent, rather than Oz?

[thehowler]

I've never understood the Glasto mud tolerance. They're all standing around in their Cameron wellies, calf-deep in the ooze.

It was never like that back in my day, when the NAT used to roll up and hop the fences, they must have put a weather hex on the place.

[Kosmin]

3 hours ago, thehowler said:

I see Liz Kendall Labour MP thinks it'll be a 2nd ref with Labour backing remain. Good chance the Tories will take the other option.

Here we see the nightmare taking form, be it in a GE or a 2nd ref, the politicians go back to the country on a poles-apart ticket and the country could well choose the RW hard brexit loon.

Would May's deal be worse than that?

Why do you think the leave voters will be satisfied with May's deal? And why do you think people won't be happy with a loon?

[grasshopper]

1 minute ago, highYield said:

We need to think about the effects on the yoof. 

@ 0:13: "I'm going to Australia next year, but with the pound dropping my savings just disappeared, basically"

Did Farage eat them? If the UK <> EU interaction is important, why not spend your year out on the continent, rather than Oz?

Crikey, glad am not a young person today. Shafted by HPI, student debt and not forgetting, that work of the devil, social media to circumnavigate. And now high yield, sticking the boot in too.

Most of us say and do daft things when we are young. Or as Mrs Grasshopper would attest, when we are young and old, as in my case.

[pig]

2 hours ago, grasshopper said:

No. Many of  just take a different view on how best to secure the prosperity of the working class given the power of capital in the current global economy.

This debate looks remarkable similar to that between on the one hand Stalin and Bukarin, Socialism in One Country v Trotsky's, Theory of Permanent Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country?wprov=sfla1

It would appear Trotsky's analysis proved to be correct and the Russian Revolution, for good or ill, was eventually crushed by the combined forces of global capitalism.

I do not know how this will play out, but with people like JRM and BJ et al, leading the call for a hard Brexit I am not convinced that the welfare of the workers will be foremost in their minds.

Basically being manoeuvred into a position where were forced to take a load of stuff that nobody voted for.

Who wants it ? You get a sense of who Brexit is actually for here:

Quote

Plan A+ is most detailed on financial services after Brexit, where it suggests a wide range of deregulatory measures. Suddenly the agenda is not general at all, but very specific indeed. It reads like special pleading for particular bank, hedge fund and wealth manager interests. Proposals include reducing some of the capital requirements on banks, and lifting several controls on asset managers’ trading. The bank surcharge, which claws back some of the huge cost to the taxpayer of bailing out the sector after the 2007-08 financial crash, and was introduced to deter banks taking on riskier debt, should be cut. Controls on CFDs (contracts for difference – a form of algorithmic trading in which funds trade on the small fluctuations in asset prices without ever owning the assets) should be scrapped, as should some controls on short-selling, and caps on large fund trading volumes designed to prevent excessive swings in markets, especially in vital commodities. The EU directive on markets in financial instruments is described as burdensome to wealth managers because it requires extensive trade-tracking data to be provided to regulators. Although regulation is mostly inimical to free markets, the US will want stronger intellectual property rights regulation to encourage venture capital.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/04/post-brexit-free-trade-deal-us-rightwing-thinktanks

[GrizzlyDave]

6 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

Why do you think the leave voters will be satisfied with May's deal? And why do you think people won't be happy with a loon?

The WA is Nicotine Replacement Therapy  - unpalatable - but helps us quit the EU. Sadly many don’t have the strength for cold turkey (the easy way). And all the kids want to vape because EU-cigarettes look cool.

[macca13]

4 hours ago, Social Justice League said:

The people will probably now vote remain this time and all will be well.

???

How can it be well? 

Global warmings coming and we are running out of food to sustain the planets population.. 

And all remain voters worry about is a fictional economy.. 

There is nothing “well” about what remain idiots are doing to this planet or this country! 

[Kosmin]

2 minutes ago, macca13 said:

Global warmings coming and we are running out of food to sustain the planets population.. 

How would leaving help with that?

[macca13]

36 minutes ago, highYield said:

We need to think about the effects on the yoof. 

@ 0:13: "I'm going to Australia next year, but with the pound dropping my savings just disappeared, basically"

Did Farage eat them? If the UK <> EU interaction is important, why not spend your year out on the continent, rather than Oz?

??????

Screwed over by his granny who will be dead soon! ?

Edited December 5, 2018 by macca13