MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Ukraine invasion: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signs application to join European Union Ukraine has signed an application to join the European Union after Russia's invasion of the eastern European country entered its fifth day. Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the country's president, shared an image of himself flanked by Denys Shmyhal, his prime minister, and Ruslan Stefanchuk, chairman of the Ukrainian parliament, as he signed the document. Mr Zelenskyy wrote on Facebook: "Today I signed an application for Ukraine's membership in the European Union. Pretty sure this is real." He has asked the EU to allow Ukraine to gain membership immediately under a special procedure as it defends itself from invasion by Russian forces. The application to the EU was largely symbolic and the process could take years, with Ukraine having been weakened by endemic corruption for many years, making the benchmarks of approval extremely hard to reach. Read More Russia's invasion of Ukraine mapped - what happened on day five Ukraine to give cash to Russian soldiers who lay down their weapons; Russian state media 'hacked'; Ukraine-Russia talks end on border Large explosions as night falls in Kyiv - after first round of peace talks with Russia end 'Cluster munition' strikes buildings in Kharkiv as 'dozens killed' in mass shelling Russia's nuclear forces put on 'enhanced combat duty' - follow live updates However, the move is still unlikely to sit well with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who does not want Ukraine to have a strong relationship with the West. The EU application comes after the first-round of talks between Ukraine and Russia, aimed at ending the fighting, concluded with no immediate agreements. Read more: 'It's turning into a disaster': Why Putin's forces are making such slow progress Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukraine's president, said that both delegations had returned home for consultations in their capitals. Mr Podolyak gave few details except to say that the talks, held near the Ukraine-Belarus border, were focused on a possible ceasefire and that a second round could take place "in the near future." Kyiv was hit by more large explosions as the first round of talks concluded. Sky's security and defence editor Deborah Haynes said "the windows rattled with those explosions we heard" in the Ukrainian capital. "The warning has always been that if they couldn't have their success in their initial wave then they would up the tempo in terms of the level of violence which seems to be what we are seeing and hearing." Earlier, the Ukrainian interior ministry said dozens of people had been killed in mass shelling in Kharkiv, as fierce fighting continues into the fifth day of the conflict. "Kharkiv has just been massively fired upon by grads [rockets]. Dozens of dead and hundreds of wounded," Ukrainian interior ministry adviser Anton Herashchenko said in a post on Facebook. Meanwhile, Mr Putin placed his nuclear deterrence forces on high alert, with the Kremlin saying it was a response to statements from UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss. More from Sky News Website Mobile App Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 42 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Why the long table? What we see right here is normalised, enabled irrationality. Unfortunately he happens to be the dictatorial head of a powerful state. Not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Why the long table? If this isn't a visual metaphor I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 49 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Impressive cribbage board though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dogsy said: If this isn't a visual metaphor I don't know what is. Well the whole world* now know what a 🔔🔚 Putin is. *Well apart from the Russian populous as the state apparatus is outwardly lying to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 hours ago, IMHAL said: Democracy? Can't say I've ever voted to allow a Russian propaganda channel to broadcast here. Must be a new meaning of democracy I am not aware of. rt.com 403 - Forbidden . That’s an error. Client does not have access rights to the content so server is rejecting to give proper response. That’s all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallingAwake Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 59 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Why the long table? It looks like it doubles as a snooker table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 59 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Why the long table? Do you suppose it's an upgrade on a mahoosive clock in Russian real estate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, slawek said: I don't think Putin would agree to this. What would happen to Ukraine? Read this: https://blogs.icrc.org/ilot/2017/08/13/main-ihl-rules-governing-hostilities/ A concise explainer but specifically read this: Precautions A party to an armed conflict must take constant care to spare civilians or civilian objects when carrying out military operations. The party conducting an attack must do everything feasible to verify that the targets are military objectives. It must choose means and methods of attack that avoid, or at least keep to a minimum, the incidental harm to civilians and civilian property. It must refrain from launching an attack if it seems clear that the losses or damage caused would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. Effective warning must be given of attacks that may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit. Precautions must also be taken against the effects of attacks. For example, military objectives must not, as far as possible, be situated in the vicinity of civilian populations and civilian objects; all other necessary precautions must also be taken. My comments - both sides are combatants and the above applies equally. By choosing a method of warfare that potentially maximises civilian casualties attempting to use threat thereof as a defence you are. If they know the civilians are there this is contravening the above. As said these are the laws of war, your interpretation does not matter. You do not apply them, you do not understand them and you have never been in a situation to adhere to them. Arguing the toss is rather daft as I have done this for real not as a thought exercise after a Google search. Do ypu know the danger area of a 250lb Paveway? AGM-114 Hellfire? AGM-65 Maverick? Well a Forward Air Controller does and he says safe or not. Same I know the beaten area on a GPMG and when its too close to safely use around sensitive sites. A GPMG is a directed weapon but the bullets form a nice tight group they form a cone of impact called a beaten zone and anything in it has a bad day. Its a horrible business and it is not clinical and precise its imperfect. This is the nature of war. Bullets do not stop when they miss. Every shot is aimed but these are the facts of life. Friendly troops move under covering fire, they shoot where fire came from. If you shoot from the side of a building the return fire will come there. You are as responsible as the people returning fire. That you cannot see that is because you read the word attacker and think it doesn't apply to defenders. It does. Belligerents is the actual legal term. Applý you misinterpretation of military law: The surrounded tank may not fire, the attackers in the street should not be there, the battle is in the wrong place. So how can any war take place? Because you skipped the key governing part to jump to the bit you think applies. In all of this the words practical and feasible apply. Those are the keywords. I may protect that tank with anything that is proprtionate and practical and feasible steps to protect civilians are incoporated. Using a PGM may well be that if that is the most accurate support I can render in a timely and targeted manner. Your attackers from a practical and military feasibility point have to approach the tank from a direction of civilian buildings and the use of cover is a military necessity. In the fast tempo they have to go where the enemy is and provided they are not deliberately acting to encourage civilian casualties ( ie getting them to walk in a line as cover) they are in a military necessity. Do you see now why making sweeping statements based on a misinterpretation of the laws is just not a good idea. Edited March 1, 2022 by Staffsknot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 55 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: I guess it's possible as the Sputnik vaccine was about as good a dogs dinner. He can have any vaccines he wants. Maybe he's OD'd on multiple Covid vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Well the whole world* now know what a 🔔🔚 Putin is. *Well apart from the Russian populous as the state apparatus is outwardly lying to them. The longer this goes on until the penny drops (and it will) the angrier they will be. He's finished. Another one of the great military blunders of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 46 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Ukraine invasion: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signs application to join European Union Ukraine has signed an application to join the European Union after Russia's invasion of the eastern European country entered its fifth day. Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the country's president, shared an image of himself flanked by Denys Shmyhal, his prime minister, and Ruslan Stefanchuk, chairman of the Ukrainian parliament, as he signed the document. Mr Zelenskyy wrote on Facebook: "Today I signed an application for Ukraine's membership in the European Union. Pretty sure this is real." He has asked the EU to allow Ukraine to gain membership immediately under a special procedure as it defends itself from invasion by Russian forces. The application to the EU was largely symbolic and the process could take years, with Ukraine having been weakened by endemic corruption for many years, making the benchmarks of approval extremely hard to reach. Read More Russia's invasion of Ukraine mapped - what happened on day five Ukraine to give cash to Russian soldiers who lay down their weapons; Russian state media 'hacked'; Ukraine-Russia talks end on border Large explosions as night falls in Kyiv - after first round of peace talks with Russia end 'Cluster munition' strikes buildings in Kharkiv as 'dozens killed' in mass shelling Russia's nuclear forces put on 'enhanced combat duty' - follow live updates However, the move is still unlikely to sit well with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who does not want Ukraine to have a strong relationship with the West. The EU application comes after the first-round of talks between Ukraine and Russia, aimed at ending the fighting, concluded with no immediate agreements. Read more: 'It's turning into a disaster': Why Putin's forces are making such slow progress Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukraine's president, said that both delegations had returned home for consultations in their capitals. Mr Podolyak gave few details except to say that the talks, held near the Ukraine-Belarus border, were focused on a possible ceasefire and that a second round could take place "in the near future." Kyiv was hit by more large explosions as the first round of talks concluded. Sky's security and defence editor Deborah Haynes said "the windows rattled with those explosions we heard" in the Ukrainian capital. "The warning has always been that if they couldn't have their success in their initial wave then they would up the tempo in terms of the level of violence which seems to be what we are seeing and hearing." Earlier, the Ukrainian interior ministry said dozens of people had been killed in mass shelling in Kharkiv, as fierce fighting continues into the fifth day of the conflict. "Kharkiv has just been massively fired upon by grads [rockets]. Dozens of dead and hundreds of wounded," Ukrainian interior ministry adviser Anton Herashchenko said in a post on Facebook. Meanwhile, Mr Putin placed his nuclear deterrence forces on high alert, with the Kremlin saying it was a response to statements from UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss. More from Sky News Website Mobile App This creates a negotiating point as well you know. We shelve our application if you shelve the invasion. Your after security we give something you give something. Ukraine doesn't have many chips to play sothey minted a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, slawek said: So how this war is going to end 1. Putin breaks Ukraine, which becomes like Chechnya 2. Putin will give up and sign some agreement with Ukraine 3. Putin removed and Russia withdraws 4. NATO will send its troops and Ukraine wins 5. NATO will send its troops and Putin goes nuclear Any other option? 1 hour ago, Dogsy said: 1. I think the West will go in when the abuses get too much->4 or 5 2. Can’t see it with his current mindset. 3. Most likely imho (or hopium on my part at the risk of avoiding 5) 4. See 1 5. A distinct possibility he could give the order, depends on safeguards in the Kremlin (if any). 1 hour ago, Si1 said: One of the problems is a humiliated Putin. Hopefully a humiliated Putin will be removed from power by his own side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Hopefully a humiliated Putin will be removed from power by his own side. I think it's still early days, Putin barely started but West is already out with ammunition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnylattej Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 hours ago, zugzwang said: The very least thing these vulgarians have done is steal from their compatriots. Many of them are known associates of Putin, a mass murderer. They should not be here under any circumstances. If our govt continues to harbour them then what choice do we have but to confront them personally? My preferred route would be change the UK government to one that will boot out these crooks, and return the stolen money and assets to the people of Russia and maybe to Ukraine. Unfortunately the international order is anarchic, in the sense that there is no overall control. But I'm not keen on a personal confrontation with the Russian Mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Gazprom Financial Director found dead… Allegedly by suicide The circumstances of the death of deputy director general of Gazprom's unified settlement center for corporate security, whose body was found in the prestigious Leninskoye village in the Vyborg district of Leningrad region, are being investigated. A note was found next to his body, as law enforcement authorities told 47news. A month earlier in the same village the body of a top manager of another department in Gazprom's orbit was found. Both now deceased previously worked at Gazprom Transgaz. https://www.deepl.com/translator Hmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Gazprom Financial Director found dead… Allegedly by suicide The circumstances of the death of deputy director general of Gazprom's unified settlement center for corporate security, whose body was found in the prestigious Leninskoye village in the Vyborg district of Leningrad region, are being investigated. A note was found next to his body, as law enforcement authorities told 47news. A month earlier in the same village the body of a top manager of another department in Gazprom's orbit was found. Both now deceased previously worked at Gazprom Transgaz. https://www.deepl.com/translator Hmmmmmm Seems strange. I would have thought that there would be plenty of balconies in Leningrad? Edited February 28, 2022 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, rollover said: I think it's still early days, Putin barely started but West is already out with ammunition. Nonsense. Finland and Sweden could suddenly join Nato. Poland could annex Königsberg. Boris could actually clean up the London laundromat (stop laughing at the back!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Staffsknot said: This creates a negotiating point as well you know. We shelve our application if you shelve the invasion. Your after security we give something you give something. Ukraine doesn't have many chips to play sothey minted a few 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 hours ago, hotblack42 said: What we see right here is normalised, enabled irrationality. Unfortunately he happens to be the dictatorial head of a powerful state. Not great. 2 hours ago, Dogsy said: If this isn't a visual metaphor I don't know what is. 1 hour ago, hotblack42 said: Impressive cribbage board though.. 1 hour ago, FallingAwake said: It looks like it doubles as a snooker table. 1 hour ago, Si1 said: Do you suppose it's an upgrade on a mahoosive clock in Russian real estate? 1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said: He can have any vaccines he wants. Maybe he's OD'd on multiple Covid vaccines. I think he just loves an extra large table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 What is the Lugar centre? who owns it? what does it do? and where is it located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Hopefully a humiliated Putin will be removed from power by his own side. Making contact with someone who will do the job and providing him with the means is presumably a key allied objective. The were 42 known plots on Hitler's life, the vast majority of them post 1943 after the course of the war had changed. Edited February 28, 2022 by zugzwang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, skinnylattej said: My preferred route would be change the UK government to one that will boot out these crooks, and return the stolen money and assets to the people of Russia and maybe to Ukraine. Unfortunately the international order is anarchic, in the sense that there is no overall control. But I'm not keen on a personal confrontation with the Russian Mafia. Keep stepping backwards before a fascist and eventually you'll step into your grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Arpeggio said: Gazprom Financial Director found dead… Allegedly by suicide The circumstances of the death of deputy director general of Gazprom's unified settlement center for corporate security, whose body was found in the prestigious Leninskoye village in the Vyborg district of Leningrad region, are being investigated. A note was found next to his body, as law enforcement authorities told 47news. A month earlier in the same village the body of a top manager of another department in Gazprom's orbit was found. Both now deceased previously worked at Gazprom Transgaz. https://www.deepl.com/translator Hmmmmmm I found this 2 days ago but did not post it as its a hoax. https://www.latestly.com/socially/world/update-widespread-reports-that-gazproms-financial-director-has-died-of-suicide-or-latest-tweet-by-the-spectator-index-3412024.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Quicken said: Nonsense. Finland and Sweden could suddenly join Nato. Poland could annex Königsberg. Boris could actually clean up the London laundromat (stop laughing at the back!). I am going out to Warsaw with work at the weekend. One of the guys out there says it is common knowledge that the Polish air force is already working with the Ukrainians, flying early warning aircraft along the border and passing on real time information. If Russian aircraft come near the border they are greeted by fully armed F16s, RAF Typhoons are also patrolling there but not as close to the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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