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Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved


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23 minutes ago, coypondboy said:

🤣with BOJO making the decisions on should we intervene what could go wrong?

....we are safe with bojo

keep-calm-im-a-lover-not-a-fighter.jpg

.....this is what it says on his underpants, allegedly sen by Carrie

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The lack of balanced information on this subject in the UK media is extremely worrying. You think energy prices are expensive now?

I guess the friendly named "US military industrial complex" is lacking funds since the surrender of Afghanistan, where literally trillions of taxpayer dollars have been feasted upon in the 'War on Terror'. As long as these wars don't happen on the American continent, what's the difference if Europe is laid waste, war generates money and what better distraction is there from the western economies running out of road.

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10 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

The lack of balanced information on this subject in the UK media is extremely worrying. You think energy prices are expensive now?

I guess the friendly named "US military industrial complex" is lacking funds since the surrender of Afghanistan, where literally trillions of taxpayer dollars have been feasted upon in the 'War on Terror'. As long as these wars don't happen on the American continent, what's the difference if Europe is laid waste, war generates money and what better distraction is there from the western economies running out of road.

I have been considering if US policy is too crash Europe, no one has friends or enemies only interests and Europe is getting economically too big for its boots

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50 minutes ago, clarkey said:

Sabre rattling by Putin. What could they possibly gain from invading?

The Russians are worried about the ever increasing size of NATO. They have been asking for a guarantee that Ukraine and Georgia will not join...NATO and the US have refused to give way on this.

 

We too should worry about this expansion since a founding principle of NATO is an attack on one member is an attack on all...think about that, would we really run to the defence of an eastern European country invaded by Russia?

 

One has to ask what the point of NATO actually is now. It was an alliance against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact during the cold war. Well the USSR was disbanded 30 years ago and most ex-Warsaw pact countries are now EU/NATO. Why keep it going??? Who is it an alliance against now?

 

To try and understand the Russian psyche, we should also remember the deaths that the USSR (mainly Russian) experienced in WW2.

They lost well over 20 million in total. In comparison we lost between 300,000 and 400,000, as did the US. Our Canadian allies (who were part of the D Day landings) lost even less. See the chart below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg

These figures were the reason behind Stalins need to have a buffer zone between the USSR and Western Europe, hence one of the founding needs for the "Iron Curtain".

 

 

Off topic but, wrt those figures above, we have now lost half of the lives we lost in WW2 to COVID...let that one sink in!

 

Edited by Roman Roady
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29 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

The Russians are worried about the ever increasing size of NATO. They have been asking for a guarantee that Ukraine and Georgia will not join...NATO and the US have refused to give way on this.

 

We too should worry about this expansion since a founding principle of NATO is an attack on one member is an attack on all...think about that, would we really run to the defence of an eastern European country invaded by Russia?

 

One has to ask what the point of NATO actually is now. It was an alliance against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact during the cold war. Well the USSR was disbanded 30 years ago and most ex-Warsaw pact countries are now EU/NATO. Why keep it going??? Who is it an alliance against now?

 

To try and understand the Russian psyche, we should also remember the deaths that the USSR (mainly Russian) experienced in WW2.

They lost well over 20 million in total. In comparison we lost between 300,000 and 400,000, as did the US. Our Canadian allies (who were part of the D Day landings) lost even less. See the chart below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg

These figures were the reason behind Stalins need to have a buffer zone between the USSR and Western Europe, hence one of the founding needs for the "Iron Curtain".

 

 

Off topic but, wrt those figures above, we have now lost half of the lives we lost in WW2 to COVID...let that one sink in!

 

Russia also wants to sell gas to Europe, in particular making Germany dependet on them for energy. But they can't do this while some German politicians are holding up Nordstream 2. I bet they wished they still had their agent Merkel in place to approve the scheme.

Russia certainly think they would be better off with a buffer to the West, but then they could have nipped WW2 in the bud by supporting Poland rather than invading and carving the country up between them and Germany.

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1 hour ago, Roman Roady said:

The Russians are worried about the ever increasing size of NATO. They have been asking for a guarantee that Ukraine and Georgia will not join...NATO and the US have refused to give way on this.

 

We too should worry about this expansion since a founding principle of NATO is an attack on one member is an attack on all...think about that, would we really run to the defence of an eastern European country invaded by Russia?

 

One has to ask what the point of NATO actually is now. It was an alliance against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact during the cold war. Well the USSR was disbanded 30 years ago and most ex-Warsaw pact countries are now EU/NATO. Why keep it going??? Who is it an alliance against now?

 

To try and understand the Russian psyche, we should also remember the deaths that the USSR (mainly Russian) experienced in WW2.

They lost well over 20 million in total. In comparison we lost between 300,000 and 400,000, as did the US. Our Canadian allies (who were part of the D Day landings) lost even less. See the chart below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg

These figures were the reason behind Stalins need to have a buffer zone between the USSR and Western Europe, hence one of the founding needs for the "Iron Curtain".

 

 

Off topic but, wrt those figures above, we have now lost half of the lives we lost in WW2 to COVID...let that one sink in!

 

 

I believe it's more about securing a land corridor with Crimea.

Strategically, it makes sense for Russia to take it and the timing couldn't be better. Europe is weak and dependent on Russian gas. The US has just been humiliated in Afghanistan + devastated by Covid. Britain is bankrupt.

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It's worth remembering, because the msm would prefer you to forget, that the cyberweapons the Russians are using to attack Ukraine are almost certainly derivatives of those developed and stockpiled by the NSA before they were stolen by APT3 and the Shadow Brokers.

Arguably, the single greatest intelligence failure in US history and brilliantly documented in Nicole Perlroth's 'This Is How They Tell Me The World Ends'.

 

Edited by zugzwang
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48 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Not being funny, but what's the point of our nukes if not a deterrent for stuff like this?

Or have we wasted 150 billion on something that only really allows us to also melt the proles of anyone who might fire at us (ours still being doomed)?

Staggered that somebody claiming to be the age you do asks that question. We have nukes because it ensures our seat on the Security Council.

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To be fair until Krushchev moved it in 1954 the Crimea was actually part of the Russian republic and had been since before the US declaration of independence. Eastern Ukraine was also part of Russia until Lenin moved it in 1922 to create the new Ukraine soviet republic.

No one actually ever asked the people - the current boundaries were created by a Communist dictatorship which were then used post 1990 to form the boundaries of these newly independent countries!

Such are the quirks of history.

Edited by MARTINX9
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15 minutes ago, onlooker said:

Staggered that somebody claiming to be the age you do asks that question. We have nukes because it ensures our seat on the Security Council.

That doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps the seat was worth more in the past and I didn't pay attention!? I remember Argentina invading the Falklands a few years after Trident became active and wondering at the time "erm... isn't our nuclear deterrent supposed to deter them?"

The UN Security Council has achieved the square root of F all this past 20 years. It's more a revolving circus of handshaking these days, isn't it? Ghana presently members...

 

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A significant fraction of the population in Eastern Ukraine are of Russian descent and Russian is the main language spoken there. The US puppet government is based in the West and they are Nazi/racists abusing the Russian population. 

What I think is likely to occur is that, similar to Crimea, the population will decide that they would rather be with the Russians than the Nazi Ukranians. They will vote to join Russia and this will be painted yet again as an invasion by the corrupt Western CIA-captured legacy media. This may well be the pretext for the US to invade and "defend democracy".

European boys will be expected to spill their blood on the whim dementia patient on another continent (actually his handlers).

 

In any case, I don't think Putin will be the aggressor, but the Grauniad, Semit and British Bolshevik Corporation will certainly attempt to make that case out of whole cloth.

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1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

To be fair until Krushchev moved it in 1954 the Crimea was actually part of the Russian republic and had been since before the US declaration of independence. Eastern Ukraine was also part of Russia until Lenin moved it in 1922 to create the new Ukraine soviet republic.

No one actually ever asked the people - the current boundaries were created by a Communist dictatorship which were then used post 1990 to form the boundaries of these newly independent countries!

Such are the quirks of history.

Correct I believe. It does raise the interesting issue that, there is a significant Russian speaking population in Estonia, moved there after WW2. Russia might reclaim them, and the land they live on, as well. Then there is the Kaliningrad enclave. Russia might want a land bridge to reach it.

 

Edit to add, of course, the Russians only acquired the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine under Potemkin during the mid 18th Century, so they have only held the places for about 250 years.

Edited by onlooker
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