Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[rollover]

In the absence initially, an alternative Brexit solutions are coming.

Hire UK workers to drive lorries

Businesses have been told to prioritise hiring UK-based workers rather than relying on labour from abroad to fix a shortage of lorry drivers.

Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng rejected calls from firms to loosen immigration rules, saying it would be a "short-term temporary solution". Companies should look to those facing an "uncertain future" when the furlough scheme ends next month, he said.

The Road Haulage Association has previously estimated there is a shortage of more than 100,000 drivers in the UK, out of a pre-pandemic total of about 600,000.

BBC

[erat_forte]

19 hours ago, slawek said:

Some points to consider

a) The average salary of a HGV driver is around 32k so it is hardly an exploitation. 

b) Higher supermarket prices will hit hardest the poorest people. 

c) The end result will be less good/services consumed in total. More money spent in supermarkets mean less money spent on other things.  

Yes less consumed in total - that is the way things are going. Connected to "degrowth", reduction in emissions, de-leveraging of debt, resource limits, etc. etc.

The question is who spends less on what other things, whose standard of living drops and how much, this is a nice example of it happening.

[Huggy]

47 minutes ago, rollover said:

In the absence initially, an alternative Brexit solutions are coming.

Hire UK workers to drive lorries

The solution has always been there. Indeed, it was one of the reasons I put a cross in a particular box that sunny and bright June day five years ago. Businesses, having grown fat from cheap imported labour, just haven't considered this one until now

They should have started to consider it on that sunny and bright June day five years ago, but they are not very good businessmen having grown fat from cheap......

Edited August 28, 2021 by Huggy

[yelims]

2 minutes ago, Huggy said:

The solution has always been there. Indeed, it was one of the reasons I put a cross in a particular box that sunny and bright June day five years ago. Businesses, having grown fat from cheap imported labour, just haven't considered this one until now

They should have started to consider it on that sunny and bright June day five years ago, but they are not very good businessmen having grown fat from cheap......

So to quote your Dear Leader

**** business 

[skinnylattej]

14 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

The TV news channels have noticed that supermarket shelves are bare. Brexit, taking back control 🤣.

Went to the supermarket, very few gaps, some in the cake isle, and some brands of beer missing, in German owned supermarket.

Able to purchase everything I needed.

Shortages seem to be very localised.

We have Brexited, and taken back control.  But the UK GVMT haven't the faintest idea how to use the powers that they taken back.  They only seem to be able to kick the can down the road, e.g postponement of UKCA and (non)implementation of customs controls.

The executive is the "not-me" gov.

 

[Huggy]

3 minutes ago, yelims said:

So to quote your Dear Leader

**** business 

My own quote would be "**** s**t businesses". If they can't do it then someone else needs to. So many job openings, so many unemployed (ie straight up not working) and furloughed, it's almost like God Himself has provided us with this opportunity! It was actually Boris, but close enough.

[winkie]

20 hours ago, slawek said:

Some points to consider

a) The average salary of a HGV driver is around 32k so it is hardly an exploitation. 

b) Higher supermarket prices will hit hardest the poorest people. 

c) The end result will be less good/services consumed in total. More money spent in supermarkets mean less money spent on other things.  

What you mean like when rents have kept increasing...... without accruing debt only a fixed amount to go around for everything that is required and desired.......increasing private debt along with increasing state borrowed subsidies are the only things that have given us an illusion of wealth and everything ticking over nicely, keeping the money turning over and helping avoiding a collapse......got to keep taking the medicine to avoid massive withdraw pain and backlash. 

[slawek]

1 hour ago, erat_forte said:

Yes less consumed in total - that is the way things are going. Connected to "degrowth", reduction in emissions, de-leveraging of debt, resource limits, etc. etc.

The question is who spends less on what other things, whose standard of living drops and how much, this is a nice example of it happening.

Brexit impact will be on top of those cuts in the consumption. Only the UK erected barriers that reduce the economy efficiency. 

I guess we will all pay for this. The impact on poorest will be the greatest since the basics expenses are a bigger proportion of their budget.  

[Dorkins]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/adhocs/13633hgvdriversbynationality

 

Number of large goods vehicle drivers in employment with UK and EU nationality (Standard Occupation Classication 2010 unit code 8211), UK, not seasonally adjusted
			Thousands
	Nationality1
Periods	UK		EU
Jul14-Jun15	267		20
Jul15-Jun16	256		32
Jul16-Jun17	280		40
Jul17-Jun18	264		38
Jul18-Jun19	263		40
Jul 19-Jun20	257		39
Apr20-Mar212	229		25
			Source: Annual Population Survey

[Dorkins]

From the figures above the HGV driver shortage doesn't really look like a Brexit thing as only a relatively small proportion of drivers were from EU countries to start with and presumably a lot of those will have settled status. I wonder if it's more like the shortage of hospitality workers i.e. people were already fed up of doing it and Covid has caused a lot of people to rethink their lifestyles.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Dorkins

[OnionTerror]

Would you drive a truck for 32k a year for this?

 

[slawek]

51 minutes ago, winkie said:

What you mean like when rents have kept increasing...... without accruing debt only a fixed amount to go around for everything that is required and desired.......increasing private debt along with increasing state borrowed subsidies are the only things that have given us an illusion of wealth and everything ticking over nicely, keeping the money turning over and helping avoiding a collapse......got to keep taking the medicine to avoid massive withdraw pain and backlash. 

More money won't help. The problem is the reduced economic output due to less people and those who can replace them are less efficient. The EU Immigrants tend to be younger and work harder, More money will only increase prices. 

BTW Rents were roughly following the wages so didn't have much impact. 

[wighty]

21 hours ago, Cocha said:

"Wage increases may filter through to supermarket prices, say haulage bosses"

Good, it will start to highlight more and more how many people's cost of living and lifestyle has been subsidised off the back of worker exploitation and wage suppression.

And subsidised by working tax credits.

[slawek]

35 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

From the figures above the HGV driver shortage doesn't really look like a Brexit thing as only a relatively small proportion of drivers were from EU countries to start with. I wonder if it's more like the shortage of hospitality workers i.e. people were already fed up of doing it and Covid has caused a lot of people to rethink their lifestyles.

Some EU drivers were not employed in the UK and didn't live in the UK. They were coming for a short time to the UK and coming back, employed by EU companies or running their own business there.   

Data from 2015

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/default/files/mobility-package-overview-of-the-eu-road-transport-market-in-2015.pdf

Edited August 28, 2021 by slawek

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, Dave Beans said:

Would you drive a truck for 32k a year for this?

 

Yeah, I've heard a lot of these accounts on the radio Dave. Awful.

The worst was a woman lorry driver whose story took gold. I am sure you can imagine the extra dimension of no facilities for you.

Nothing has changed. Nothing will.

[OnionTerror]

17 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Yeah, I've heard a lot of these accounts on the radio Dave. Awful.

The worst was a woman lorry driver whose story took gold. I am sure you can imagine the extra dimension of no facilities for you.

Nothing has changed. Nothing will.

Whether they relax visa requirements for drivers - we shall see, but probably not.

Now that the spotlight has been put on the whole logistics industry, things are going to have to change.  Its going to be untenable for the govt. if they don't... I remember the fuel shortages of 20 years ago.  If people aren't wooed into the industry, and these shortages continue, then the govt will be for the chopping block, especially if the people of Tunbridge Wells can't get their sourdough loaves of a morning..

Edited August 28, 2021 by Dave Beans

[kzb]

7 hours ago, Dorkins said:

From the figures above the HGV driver shortage doesn't really look like a Brexit thing as only a relatively small proportion of drivers were from EU countries to start with and presumably a lot of those will have settled status. I wonder if it's more like the shortage of hospitality workers i.e. people were already fed up of doing it and Covid has caused a lot of people to rethink their lifestyles.

There's a 40,000 backlog of HGV driving  tests that were never taken due to Covid.

Looking at your figures this goes a long way to addressing the numbers.

However I will say, I was on the M6 the other day and I wouldn't say there was exactly a shortage of HGVs there.

Another thing, roadworks are going crazy everywhere, roads in cities are being closed for the fun of it and as a result congestion will go through the roof when the schools go back next week. 

The "productivity" of a HGV driver must have been falling for many years due to congestion and deliberately-produced delays.  Why don't we open up the roads again so that productivity can increase?

[rollover]

How Brexit Made Jack Grealish, Jadon Sancho And Ben White Worth $300 Million

Brexit has finally hit the Premier League. Following the United Kingdom’s official departure from the European Union on 1 January 2021, the changes to transfer strategies many expected finally came. Half of the top ten transfers this summer involved English players.

Three of the top five highest value deals featured Englishmen. Manchester City spent $140 million on Jack Grealish, Manchester United took Jadon Sancho for $100 million and Ben White was Arsenal’s for $60 million.

Soccer finances are poor globally and, with the ever-increasing wage inflation continually pushing up costs, it’s increasingly difficult to run a club sustainably.

Forbes

[yelims]

22 hours ago, Huggy said:

My own quote would be "**** s**t businesses". If they can't do it then someone else needs to. So many job openings, so many unemployed (ie straight up not working) and furloughed, it's almost like God Himself has provided us with this opportunity! It was actually Boris, but close enough.

The government had 5 years to prepare 

can you point to any examples of money being allocated to train unemployed or any plans at all for Brexit?

You Brexiteer lot just are incapable of taking responsibility for the disaster for Brexit is and try blame everyone for your ******wittery, eu, business, lazy dole people, foreigners etc

[miguel]

Well of course Huggy has a fantastic Brexit opportunity to start a lucrative business, what with so many unemployed and furloughed. He also has God Boris on his his side and the unbelievable benefits that brexit will bring to his business. There's not one single company in the EU who would be able to compete with him and what's more his employees will receive a great wage and wonderful conditions.

My guess is that Huggy will do zilch, he's got fck all. It's just the blame game. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by miguel

[Huggy]

1 hour ago, yelims said:

The government had 5 years to prepare

They were fighting for 3.5 years to actually get Brexit done. COVID has taken 1 and a half years, leaving 2.5 months to actually sort things out. Corbyn and the Tory traitors ("Independent group for no change at all" I think they were called) have a lot to answer for.

Unfortunately, the power of getting goods moving partly depends on businesses who are used to competitively priced  labour  Fortunately these businesses can pay more now and I'm sure the locals are delighted at this. Isn't that a wonderful piece of news due to Brexit

[Staffsknot]

34 minutes ago, Huggy said:

They were fighting for 3.5 years to actually get Brexit done. COVID has taken 1 and a half years, leaving 2.5 months to actually sort things out. Corbyn and the Tory traitors ("Independent group for no change at all" I think they were called) have a lot to answer for.

Unfortunately, the power of getting goods moving partly depends on businesses who are used to competitively priced  labour  Fortunately these businesses can pay more now and I'm sure the locals are delighted at this. Isn't that a wonderful piece of news due to Brexit

It was summed up by a haulier yesterday - often its not the pay, his drivers were on 50k a year but not going home for 3 or 4 nights a week a lot of folk don't want that. Then there's infrastructure.

A food processing plant owner had this to say - if the era of cheap skilled labour is over then so is the era of cheap food. 

Another a turkey producer said simply this - the seasonal workers had the skills to come for 6 weeks, do a job and go. If it takes an additional 3 to 4 weeks of training who is going to lay that on for 6 weeks work and never see them again?

[pig]

26 minutes ago, Huggy said:

They were fighting for 3.5 years to actually get Brexit done. COVID has taken 1 and a half years, leaving 2.5 months to actually sort things out. Corbyn and the Tory traitors ("Independent group for no change at all" I think they were called) have a lot to answer for.

Unfortunately, the power of getting goods moving partly depends on businesses who are used to competitively priced  labour  Fortunately these businesses can pay more now and I'm sure the locals are delighted at this. Isn't that a wonderful piece of news due to Brexit

The state of this government. Did you see their ‘The Office’ style video of them moaning about desperate Afganistan emails ? I actually thought Raab looked aware he was part of a mess.

They may be almost comically bad but you have to hand it to them they’ve boxed off a significant Trump like constituency of fanatical support

 

[Staffsknot]

6 minutes ago, pig said:

The state of this government. Did you see their ‘The Office’ style video of them moaning about desperate Afganistan emails ? I actually thought Raab looked aware he was part of a mess.

They may be almost comically bad but you have to hand it to them they’ve boxed off a significant Trump like constituency of fanatical support

 

Yup the client papers are currently trying to do a hatchet job on Pen Farthing as he's been spelling out the disaster of that situation.

Before someone tells you it was unavoidable - ex French FL guy I know works as security analyst was pulled in by French gov - their evac began in May.

[pig]

51 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Yup the client papers are currently trying to do a hatchet job on Pen Farthing as he's been spelling out the disaster of that situation.

Before someone tells you it was unavoidable - ex French FL guy I know works as security analyst was pulled in by French gov - their evac began in May.

Popped up on the news too - I think they said at least 6 weeks ago.