Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[debtlessmanc]

2 hours ago, yelims said:

At least they can feed those young people and kids https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/news/2021/may/dramatic-rise-in-child-poverty/

What sort of country is proud of its food banks?

Thats an interesting article - just read it

firstly the measure is "% children in 60% below wage families before housing costs"

i would argue tells us nothing about the level of real hardship. If wages have gone up across the board you would still see the same graph but the poor would have more disposable income than before. Perhaps people have moved from, areas of high accommodation costs to low ones. Again this might mean an increase in disposable income.

Secondly no abs populations- the % poverty has declined in some areas and risen in others, that suggests demographic shifts have occured. eg Wealthier people have moved out of cities. cities have attracted inward people, perhaps , migrants there has been quite an amount in that period, on minimum wage (and i am sure they are lovely people who contribute to society etc, but a low wage economy cannot exist without takers for the low wages)

It is a typical echo chamber type report. One wonders how many ways they tried to define poverty before getting the answer the guardian crowd wanted.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[14stFlyer]

26 minutes ago, kzb said:

NI was identified by the EU side as a weak point to be exploited early on, that is true. 

I do not see it like this at all Kzb. I remember having conversations with both remainers and Brexiteers soon after the “Yes” vote. Both talked about NI as a serious issue that had to be resolved to the satisfaction of all in NI. Both groups thought that it would probably limit the extent to which market divergence could occur after Brexit. The only difference between the groups was that my remainer friends and I saw it as a good thing that separation would be limited, whereas some of my Brexiter friends saw it as an obstacle to be overcome. I suspect little has changed, although no one talks about this in the pub now...   or anywhere else for that matter.  
 

Just on here. 

[kzb]

16 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said:

I do not see it like this at all Kzb. I remember having conversations with both remainers and Brexiteers soon after the “Yes” vote. Both talked about NI as a serious issue that had to be resolved to the satisfaction of all in NI. Both groups thought that it would probably limit the extent to which market divergence could occur after Brexit. The only difference between the groups was that my remainer friends and I saw it as a good thing that separation would be limited, whereas some of my Brexiter friends saw it as an obstacle to be overcome. I suspect little has changed, although no one talks about this in the pub now...   or anywhere else for that matter.  
 

Just on here. 

I was never worried about it, because they had plenty of notice to plan and implement tech solutions to the border problem.

Also it only came to prominence because the EU/Remainer side saw it as leverage to ensure a BRINO.  If no-one had said anything and they'd  got the tech solutions ready in time, nobody would've noticed.

[kzb]

35 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

It is a typical echo chamber type report. One wonders how many ways they tried to define poverty before getting the answer the guardian crowd wanted.

 

At my polling station, in the recent LA election, they were giving out food to voters. 

[debtlessmanc]

1 minute ago, kzb said:

At my polling station, in the recent LA election, they were giving out food to voters. 

That is illegal...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32259302

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[kzb]

19 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

That is illegal...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32259302

 

TBH it was a slight joke on my part.  I didn't personally observe any food being given out.  But it is a Community Centre and there were open boxes of donated food on the counters.  It really looked like you could dip in if you wanted to.

[Huggy]

UK set for stronger post-Covid recovery, says OECD

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57306596

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet, although it is only an hour old although you lot are usually out of the blocks like a greyhound with a dab of Vicks on it's bum with stories like this. Was expecting a short "More good news" comment too...oh sorry, misread it, it says "stronger". That would explain it 😉

How is everyone doing here too? I hope you're enjoying a nice bank holiday weekend if you're in one of the parts of the country that actually has one. If not, less browsing, more working please. We would like the forecast in the article above to be achievable.

[dugsbody]

18 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

Perhaps dugsbody can provide something? 

Why would I do that? We've repeated said the EU isn't perfect and has compromises to achieve good. 

Why don't you list all the UK's downsides?

[Confusion of VIs]

On 27/05/2021 at 16:30, kzb said:

When I say "them", I know what is going on anyhow.  All the posts originate from the same person or organisation but there are a selection of sock puppets designed to appeal to different personality types.  So you have CoVI designed to appeal to the logical types, Pig designed for emotional types and IMHAL designed for middle of the road types with average intelligence.  I've been on the courses.

🤣😁🙂 Do you realise how deranged that sounds. No one cares what anyone says on this thread, Brexit is done and will have to be lived with. 

The fact it was achieved by selling an undeliverable fantasy should be far more annoying to the Leave voters who fell for the fantasy than remain voters. The worst thing about Brexit is not leaving the EU, it is the sectarian divides it has created. Divides that will probably get worse as Leave voters look for something to blame for the non arrival of the promised have cake and eat it fantasy Brexit.

Some politician's will of course be keen to capitalise on this by leading the finger pointing and ratcheting up the existing divides. Apparently both Patel and Truss have leadership ambitions, something that would explain why they are both pursuing illogical policies that are guaranteed to lead to conflict with European countries.    

[Confusion of VIs]

23 hours ago, kzb said:

They inserted the infamous fishing paragraphs literally hours before Heath signed on the dotted line.  That's "good faith" EU-style.

That's nothing to do with good faith, just a normal part of negotiation. Both sides will have been looking for advantage right up until the document is agreed and the formal legal text signed off. What did we slip in at the last minute?

Good faith is what comes after that and is shown by abiding with the terms of the contract you signed.  

[kzb]

51 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🤣😁🙂 Do you realise how deranged that sounds. No one cares what anyone says on this thread, Brexit is done and will have to be lived with. 

But did you see what happened after I posted this satirical comment?  Both Pig and IMHAL suddenly started posting graphs and references  instead of playing to the gallery.  It really looked like they thought they've been rumbled and hurriedly changed their personality types to cover up !  They never actually argued with it either, the training kicked in and they ignored that comment till it went away.  They never ignore anything else.

If nobody cares, why is there all that

concern about the Russians on social media influencing voters?

58 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The worst thing about Brexit is not leaving the EU, it is the sectarian divides it has created.

It's not me posting all the offensive stuff.  95% of the sneering and ad hominem posts on here are by remainers.  I actually agree with this comment, and I think you should all say fair enough, let's get on with it even though I don't agree myself.

 

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Some politician's will of course be keen to capitalise on this by leading the finger pointing and ratcheting up the existing divides

If you could all just stop trying to fight the referendum all over again, there wouldn't be an existing divide to capitalise on.

[yelims]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

That's nothing to do with good faith, just a normal part of negotiation. Both sides will have been looking for advantage right up until the document is agreed and the formal legal text signed off. What did we slip in at the last minute?

Good faith is what comes after that and is shown by abiding with the terms of the contract you signed.  

This is starting to get annoying now

so the devious EU brainwashed and strong armed elected uk officials back in early 70s and last year to sign on dotted line a contract/treaty they didn’t read or understand 

 

if Brexiteers actually buy this argument and it’s no surprise that resident KGB agent is floating conspiracy theories

then it raises all sorts of interesting questions about Boris and what he proclaimed as best deal ever.

[debtlessmanc]

France, Germany and Italy queuing up for defence deals apparently

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/31/france-italy-germany-brexit-deals-uk

This is interesting too- Denmark helped the US spy on other EU states

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/31/denmark-helped-us-spy-on-angela-merkel-and-european-allies-report

Edited May 31, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[winkie]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🤣😁🙂 Do you realise how deranged that sounds. No one cares what anyone says on this thread, Brexit is done and will have to be lived with. 

The fact it was achieved by selling an undeliverable fantasy should be far more annoying to the Leave voters who fell for the fantasy than remain voters. The worst thing about Brexit is not leaving the EU, it is the sectarian divides it has created. Divides that will probably get worse as Leave voters look for something to blame for the non arrival of the promised have cake and eat it fantasy Brexit.

Some politician's will of course be keen to capitalise on this by leading the finger pointing and ratcheting up the existing divides. Apparently both Patel and Truss have leadership ambitions, something that would explain why they are both pursuing illogical policies that are guaranteed to lead to conflict with European countries.    

Those that wanted to leave are eagerly waiting for sunny uplands, all will be well worth it in the end, all good things come to those who wait, like a HPC.....the remainers have adjusted their plans accordingly to allow for what is to come.

Edited May 31, 2021 by winkie

[Bruce Banner]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🤣😁🙂 Do you realise how deranged that sounds. No one cares what anyone says on this thread, Brexit is done and will have to be lived with. 

The fact it was achieved by selling an undeliverable fantasy should be far more annoying to the Leave voters who fell for the fantasy than remain voters. The worst thing about Brexit is not leaving the EU, it is the sectarian divides it has created. Divides that will probably get worse as Leave voters look for something to blame for the non arrival of the promised have cake and eat it fantasy Brexit.

Some politician's will of course be keen to capitalise on this by leading the finger pointing and ratcheting up the existing divides. Apparently both Patel and Truss have leadership ambitions, something that would explain why they are both pursuing illogical policies that are guaranteed to lead to conflict with European countries.    

Speak for yourself. If we were still in the EU I'd be able to head off to France for six months, now it's doubtful if I'll get there at all .

[Cocha]

3 hours ago, yelims said:

This is starting to get annoying now

so the devious EU brainwashed and strong armed elected uk officials back in early 70s and last year to sign on dotted line a contract/treaty they didn’t read or understand 

 

if Brexiteers actually buy this argument and it’s no surprise that resident KGB agent is floating conspiracy theories

then it raises all sorts of interesting questions about Boris and what he proclaimed as best deal ever.

"Now we've signed it - we had better read it!"

Douglas Hurd, Maastricht, 7th Feb 1992.

They probably weren't strong armed or brainwashed, perhaps just bought off.

[Cocha]

3 hours ago, winkie said:

Those that wanted to leave are eagerly waiting for sunny uplands, all will be well worth it in the end, all good things come to those who wait, like a HPC.....the remainers have adjusted their plans accordingly to allow for what is to come.

I'm not. My sunny upland was leaving the EU. That has been done and I'm now basking in the sunshine, as are many others 

[yelims]

43 minutes ago, Cocha said:

"Now we've signed it - we had better read it!"

Douglas Hurd, Maastricht, 7th Feb 1992.

They probably weren't strong armed or brainwashed, perhaps just bought off.

That’s the thing Brexiteers need to learn to be consistent 

 

either the EU is incompetent faulty dark empire whose aim is to bomb the local chippy

or

its a cunning organisation whose aim is to sell French baguettes in local chippy 

 

it can’t be both incompetent and competent at same time

It also raises all sorts of questions about the competency of past and present uk governments 

[dugsbody]

1 hour ago, Cocha said:

I'm not. My sunny upland was leaving the EU. That has been done and I'm now basking in the sunshine, as are many others 

So you had no particular reason to want to leave the EU, just leave.

You're not a typical brexiter. During the campaign we listened to endless tales of sunny uplands.

[Casual-observer]

The British/EU dilemma is down to cultural/national differences. 

British politicians simply do not mingle with other national European politicians...such as how the European politicians do 

Therefore they don't and never have forged the kind of close bonds our European counterparts do. 

Brexit was a long time coming, since the buffoon whom was Edward Heath simply didn't put in place good foundations of our joining in the first place. It ultimately left many peoples noses out of place and it was never forgotten. 

The Brexit question was always polar and the left behind's problems were never addressed, you were always hard pushed to go to places like Middlesbrough and find enough people to support a economic union that people simply felt never ever touched them. It's hard to argue against them on that platform, especially when they wheeled out people like Heseltine who bagged thousands per annum via EU subsidies to defend the thing.

Ultimately Brexit came about because of the weak foundations of joining it in the first place of which an arrogant Westminster clique never really understood. The dilemmas of the Hulls and the Middlesbrough's of the world were never truly heard in the corridors of Westminster until it was too late. 

I'm hard pushed to blame people living in these places and accuse of them of being thick as to why they voted out, I personally think the stupid decision was to vote for a status quo that otherwise wouldn't have cared about them  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[winkie]

11 hours ago, Cocha said:

I'm not. My sunny upland was leaving the EU. That has been done and I'm now basking in the sunshine, as are many others 

Nice sunny day today, let's hope it lasts.

[IMHAL]

10 hours ago, dugsbody said:

So you had no particular reason to want to leave the EU, just leave.

You're not a typical brexiter. During the campaign we listened to endless tales of sunny uplands.

That's the thing Dugs, I think he is the typical Brexiteer. No doubt before the ref and before it became obvious that Brexit would deliver a whole lot less than nothing, he would have been shouting memes about the EU this and the EU that in the pub to his mates. Followed by we could do this and that if we didn't follow their rules.

But now that it's obvious that 'Brexit means loss'....the face saving position is to say 'we are out and that is enough for me'.....because it means they don't have to justify anything. Problem solved....at least until it starts to impact direcly on his and others lives. 

[Peter Hun]

22 hours ago, kzb said:

NI was identified by the EU side as a weak point to be exploited early on, that is true

Yes it all the EU's fault.

[Peter Hun]

21 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

a typical echo chamber type report. One wonders how many ways they tried to define poverty before getting the answer the guardian crowd wanted

A example might be Vauxhall. Very few people work there, they will probably work in Westminster or The City so what median wage are they using? Vauxhall shop worker or City banker? As for housing the banker will possibly live in the 5k a month new build apartments and the shop worker the £600 month public housing.

[skinnylattej]

21 hours ago, kzb said:

TBH it was a slight joke on my part.  I didn't personally observe any food being given out.  But it is a Community Centre and there were open boxes of donated food on the counters.  It really looked like you could dip in if you wanted to.

Perhaps we should make 'spoon's a polling station, then get a free pint as well.

Might help voter turnout as well!