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About dugsbody

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  1. I've started leaning towards two outcomes but the problem is, this is for purely selfish reasons. Either remain, or no-deal brexit (very unlikely). The continual uncertainty is just too frustrating. Remain is fine and will result in an immediate boost for the people of the UK in terms of investment etc. If we have to brexit, I'd prefer no-deal for purely selfish reasons. I have a lot of GBP debt, which I expect to be eroded as GBP devalues. I have an EU passport and a lot of equity in global tracker funds which can be used to pay off the devalued mortgage should I choose. I can also easily move to another good job elsewhere in the EU (or outside) and earn more (in GBP terms) if that happens. This scenario also gives the best chance of future UK to vote back into the EU and do it properly this time. On the other hand, in the remote chance that no-deal proves spectacularly good for the UK, well that's great too. What I don't really want is a half in half out situation where we stagnate for years.
  2. Ah yes, the old brexiter slopey shoulders. It's always the others fault. Foreigners first. Now remain voters. We've been preparing ourselves to be blamed from day one, don't worry.
  3. Are you admitting you misrepresented what he said? The differences it makes is that we've ended up with an massively divided country, probably divided for a generation, unable to move forward due to the very issue we're talking about, and a bunch of hard liners who insist that any brexit will do as long as it is their form of brexit and no-one is entitled to change their minds. You've hijacked democracy for your own ideology.
  4. So the answer is simply that one is a state (UK) consisting of four countries and the other is a trading union consisting of 28 countries. No further explanations are required? It seems too simplistic to me and I favour more freedoms for humans. You like culture, but only at a distance, people better not mix too closely. You're entitled to that view, I personally consider it regressive, and I guess I'm entitled to my view too.
  5. What? The is close to zero positive propaganda in our press. Remainers on here don't spend hours extolling how everything good in the world is due to the EU. The complete opposite is true for negative EU propaganda. People will literally jump on any negative situation in a country as long as the country is in the EU and attempt to pin it on the EU. There exists a website designated purely to debunk the multi-decade myths invented against the EU by europhobes. This only exists in response to the UK, no other country.
  6. But you consider the freedom to move in four countries of the UK acceptable even though the countries retain distinct differences?
  7. You're intentionally misinterpreting something. That's dishonest. He did not say what you're saying, he said they could imagine any number of options. They may well have known what they voted for but was it in any way possible, was it compatible with anyone else's version, was it a liberalised trade brexit, was it a protectionist brexit? Would the leave vote have won if at the end of this process we took the resulting outcome, reversed time and put that outcome and remain on the ballot? Almost certainly not, because it would have been too specific for the leave campaign to win.
  8. Why do you want to divide people again?
  9. I believe I've posted several times in this thread that I have some sympathy for leave voters who are honest about their intentions and stick to that. If people don't like the concept of freedom of movement, that's their choice (I disagree and could debate it, but at least it's a straight forward answer). Remain voters are wrong about many things too. I think we're quite a mixed bag. For example, my primary reason for voting remain isn't economic, unlike many other remain voters. We may do ok outside of the EU, perhaps by some chance we even create an economic competitor to the EU outside of the common rules and manage to profit from it. But in that last sentence lies one of the key reasons I voted remain. By doing this we're going against the entire reason the EU exists, which is to prevent economic warfare from spilling over into real warfare in a continent where this has happened for centuries. It was literally designed for this purpose. I find it sad that a country that came to the rescue of the rest of Europe has lost sight of that. I have many other reasons for voting remain, but economics only appears somewhere along that list, while I think for many remain voters, it is rather high.
  10. The problem with that is, if the government get it wrong, they can be booted out in a few years time. Leavers are telling us however that we cannot change our minds now that we've seen someone try to make the plan. Why not? If the majority of the population want to change their mind, why do the minority think it's ok to stop them?
  11. That was one speculation I had. Kick the can endlessly until there was enough momentum to remain? At this point, it is hard to know what is best for the country. Unfortunately I can see no good way out of all of this.
  12. Yes. UK problems are almost entirely caused by UK politicians and if there are solutions, they can be found while remaining in the EU. Leaving the EU was a result of decades of propaganda (lies in other words) against the EU by the press and certain right wing elements. People now think the EU is the real problem. The EU falls under the category of foreigner in this case. Slightly different form, same old tactic.
  13. One of the points of us remain voters still arguing here is that you personally may not have been sold on the sunlit uplands arguments but huge amounts of people were. Yet brexiters dismiss this as no problem, despite all the evidence in front of us that this has caused as big, big problem due to the undeliverable nature of those problems. It seems to me that you may not care because you're getting the result you want regardless. But a lot of us do care.
  14. It has done none of those things. It has shown that the age old trick of incompetent governments getting populations to blame foreigners still works a treat.

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