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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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1 minute ago, pig said:

Combination of common sense and what the consequences would have been of finding for the government I'd say.

Ordinarily of course Johnson would have to resign - but ordinarily he shouldn't have tried to pervert democracy in the first place. At the end of the say his supporters will spin it the way they need to carry on believing so he'll stay in power.

 

He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you?

Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit.

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I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

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1 minute ago, thehowler said:

He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you?

Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit.

He still abused his position though. In trying to deal with a Parliament that was trying its hardest to shirk its responsibilities.

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So what now? Johnson quits, the press laud him as a man who did his best but was stymied by the judiciary, Corbyn runs around trying vainly to form a government for a few days, a GE is then called.... Which the tories win handsomely with the support of the red tops?

Will they get a big enough majority to nullify the tory rebel vote?

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2 minutes ago, thehowler said:

He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you?

Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit.

He overpromised to win the leadership, May's deal is essentially the only deal available.  Accept that and we can leave. 

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2 hours ago, thehowler said:

He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you?

Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit.

Focus your mind on the important issue here. The government acted unlawfully.

Edited by grasshopper
Changed illegally to unlawfully
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1 minute ago, AThirdWay said:

So what now? Johnson quits, the press laud him as a man who did his best but was stymied by the judiciary, Corbyn runs around trying vainly to form a government for a few days, a GE is then called.... Which the tories win handsomely with the support of the red tops?

With who at the top? Does Johnson quit as PM or Conservative party leader too, so is he back in the event of that GE?

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1 minute ago, thehowler said:

He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you?

Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit.

You kind of understood it above - just got a bit confused.

Your head recognised the judges couldn't find in favour of the government or democracy would be fecked.  It wouldn't surprise me if half those judges were hesitant but recognised what was at stake.

Your heart is 'Brexit/BJ/Tories'  so they had to find in favour of the government but with er... 'recommendations' to assuage the cognitive dissonance.

He is 'destroying' himself and trying to take the country with him. Perhaps that is the fate of any partisan Brexit.

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12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The reality was Parliament was in control, perfectly entitled to push its agenda and to choose the timing of any GE.

11-0  And still Leavers blathering about legal issues they don't understand all over the internet.

 

Even after blocking a GE, going back on 2017 promises, and even some changing parties with no by-elections?

Plus creating new laws. Who knows what new law they would have come up with next!

Edited by allfiredup
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7 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

He still abused his position though. In trying to deal with a Parliament that was trying its hardest to shirk its responsibilities.

Yes, court decision is right.

But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40!

So will Labour call for a GE?

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Just now, pig said:

Your head recognised the judges couldn't find in favour of the government or democracy would be fecked.  It wouldn't surprise me if half those judges were hesitant but recognised what was at stake.

That sounds like considering issues beyond what the technicality of the law is.

Quote

He is 'destroying' himself and trying to take the country with him. Perhaps that is the fate of any partisan Brexit.

The ones destroying the country are the ones who'll do anything rather than accept Brexit.

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1 minute ago, thehowler said:

Yes, court decision is right.

But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40!

So will Labour call for a GE?

Fair enough...

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41 minutes ago, crouch said:

Quite right I don't. 

If there was a "plan" why would you assume that I would have it? The fact that I don't have it does not mean that one does not exist - even in your terms. I assume the governmnet would have on eif it existed. I think it's in the public interest to know what economic outcome they voted for

Government is responsible for this. Why would you assume that any plan(s) would be published for your scrutiny. Not my scrutiny, an independent body, the ONS for example. In order to make it credible.

As for the plan making us poorer or richer you yourself have said that a plan is just that; it does not determine outcomes and requires adjustment as time goes on. Correct, but you need one in the first place.

You want to say Brexit is unequivocally bad and you can't. I just want to know what we are aiming for and if we have a plan in place to achieve it.

 

Crouchy.....there is no evidence of an objective, of a plan, of a forecast. Brexit is an empty vessel powered by bluster of the type you so admirably demonstrate. It is BS. It is fantasy. It is............. Project Unicorn.

Edited by IMHAL
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5 minutes ago, longgone said:

Like ruling out no deal as an option ?

I am more interested in how we protect our representative democracy, than the particular issue of Brexit. If we leave we leave and if we stay we stay.

But, whatever the end result this should be done within the confines of upholding  parliamentary democracy and the rule of law.

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1 minute ago, thehowler said:

Yes, court decision is right.

But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40!

So will Labour call for a GE?

it was certainly grotesque of him but the reporting I've seen doesn't appear to be concentrating much on precisely what the problem was technically, which I find concerning.

Will Labour call for a GE? They've been doing so for ages then got cold feet when it was offered. I'm starting to think that no party really wants one, all fearing they'll get hammered.

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10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

He overpromised to win the leadership, May's deal is essentially the only deal available.  Accept that and we can leave. 

It won't get through the House. Labour rebel MPs won't back him now - can say they're waiting to see the 2nd ref Labour leave option - and he needs them to stand a chance of passing it.

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1 minute ago, IMHAL said:

Crouchy.....there is no evidence of an objective, of a plan, of a forecast. Brexit is an empty vessel powered by bluster of the type you so admirably demonstrate. It is BS. It is fantasy. It is............. Project Unicorn.

Why should there be evidence that is available to you? You just don't know; you just make the assumptions to fit your views no less than me. Your views are no less unicorn than mine; the only difference is that I'll admit it but you won't.

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

That sounds like considering issues beyond what the technicality of the law is.

Yes, the existence of the rule of law.

1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

The ones destroying the country are the ones who'll do anything rather than accept Brexit.

That philosophical blank cheque to excuse any old cr4p is getting a bit tired.

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2 minutes ago, grasshopper said:

I am more interested in how we protect our representative democracy, than the particular issue of Brexit. If we leave we leave and if we stay we stay.

But, whatever the end result this should be done within the confines of upholding  parliamentary democracy and the rule of law.

If that was true this chitshow would not take 3 years and be no further. Longer it goes on the more destruction is caused one silver lining then.

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