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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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7 hours ago, kzb said:

Not "what if" scenarios more like thought experiments.   We are simply imagining a hypothetical country, "X" in a hypothetical organisation identical to the EU.  Nothing absurd about it at all, this type of thinking is commonplace.

Nothing outlandish or unfactual about stating the main purpose of the EU, which is ever closer union of states.  That is what it says in the treaty.  How is it outlandish for me to state this?

You can play what if games all you want, but until they have direct applicability to the matter in hand, the answer will be no more useful than “she’d be a bus”. 

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I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

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2 minutes ago, crouch said:

And you speak for the masses? Congratulations El Duce!

I don't speak for anyone. It's a statement of fact...there will be be no pussy footing about this issue if Brexit delivers hardship....or waiting for 30 years to see if there is light at the end of the tunnel. You need to check out how many people have little or no savings...these are the people who cannot afford principles.

 

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Just now, Ah-so said:

I think they are proposing remain vs something that resembles the Leave campaign’s proposals going into the referendum.  

They have just backed Corbs, in heated scenes.

Labour are not going into the GE backing remain. Or leave. They will decide which they're supporting only after victory.

So if you meet a Labour supporter tonight who says their party backs remain...oh no they don't.

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59 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

I never said its only what the English want. The referendum was for the whole of the UK and leave won, thanks to the Scottish. ?

I don't recoqnise your second point at all, unless the muppet's you speak of are the Remainer MP's?

 ?

Er...no the research was pointing out that Leave only 'won' in England, the question being what is (or maybe 'was') the problem with the English then ?

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2 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I don't speak for anyone. It's a statement of fact...there will be be no pussy footing about this issue if Brexit delivers hardship....or waiting for 30 years to see if there is light at the end of the tunnel. You need to check out how many people have little or no savings...these are the people who cannot afford principles.

We've got a system where those people are screwed regardless - they never benefited from the growth that you're saying we'll lose. It's the same point again about the UK having plenty of wealth but poor wealth distribution. The latter is the area that needs targeting to help those people but the arguments are all about the effects on the former.

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2 hours ago, crouch said:

You are right. But do you limit "best interests" to economic interests, which I assume you do? If so that cannot be right because economic interests are one part of the story but they are not the whole story.

Trying to separate Britain from Europe politically can only ever lead it down a social and cultural rathole because it is an act of self-denial. 

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12 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

.there will be be no pussy footing

Well that's a relief.

13 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

You need to check out how many people have little or no savings...these are the people who cannot afford principles.

And after we've not pussyfooted around - then?

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19 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

Yeah but we're talking about Brexit, not the whole world a 100 years ago!

I'm sure someone will come along any moment to remind us how many people are 1 salary check away from destitution/have less than 1months savings etc.... the point is that a great many people, once confronted by economic hardship, will ask some hard questions......

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15 minutes ago, thehowler said:

They have just backed Corbs, in heated scenes.

Labour are not going into the GE backing remain. Or leave. They will decide which they're supporting only after victory.

So if you meet a Labour supporter tonight who says their party backs remain...oh no they don't.

And did you see how aggressively the remainers looked round to see who was voting!

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5 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I'm sure someone will come along any moment to remind us how many people are 1 salary check away from destitution/have less than 1months savings etc.... the point is that a great many people, once confronted by economic hardship, will ask some hard questions......

And the right question should be "Why are we struggling to survive when there's still a lot of wealth in the country?" All the growth we're supposed to have had over the years doesn't appear to have done much for them. What's become seriously broken if that hasn't helped at all but a bit of a loss will destroy them? The wrong questions are being asked.

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27 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

You can play what if games all you want, but until they have direct applicability to the matter in hand, the answer will be no more useful than “she’d be a bus”. 

It does have direct applicability to the matter in hand.  But you don't know what that is.  Use the trackback arrow on my posts to go back to where it started then you might be able to say something useful.

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Labour are the only party with a truly democratic option out of this mess. Tories are (ostensibly) the no deal party for which there is no mandate, LDs intend to enter into an unconscious denial rabbit hole that the referendum never happened, Brexit Party don't have a manifesto that people can choose, they will foist their will onto the people post GE win. Ignore those who say "whats Labours position on brexit?". Simply reply with "why should the Labour Party be a hive mind, is that more indicative of your mindset?"

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On 22/09/2019 at 18:39, crouch said:

Destroying the market begs the question - the question being does a market disappear overnight? You seem to think we're toast even before we've left - a remarkable position to take.

Hysterical.

Yes it disappears when you are no longer part of the Single Market. For goods, tariffs that are equal (or much more) to the entire profit of manufacture and make it impossible to manufacture here.

>Hysterical

No, just the manufactures themselves, who have started this fact many many times and idiots like yourself refuse to believe because you have no idea what you are talking about.

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22 minutes ago, smash said:

Labour are the only party with a truly democratic option out of this mess. Tories are (ostensibly) the no deal party for which there is no mandate, LDs intend to enter into an unconscious denial rabbit hole that the referendum never happened, Brexit Party don't have a manifesto that people can choose, they will foist their will onto the people post GE win. Ignore those who say "whats Labours position on brexit?". Simply reply with "why should the Labour Party be a hive mind, is that more indicative of your mindset?"

More democratic except they said no to a GE when it was offered - twice.

More democratic as long as you don't want to vote for no CU/WTO/or no deal.

More democratic except we don't even know what their deal will be or whether they can get it, in three months.

More democratic unless they have a small majority (and that's a push) and a few rebels don't mean other parties can block their ref wording/deal etc.

Edited by thehowler
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1 hour ago, allfiredup said:

And did you see how aggressively the remainers looked round to see who was voting!

When they started singing "OOoo Jeremy Corbyn" I thought to myself...

...how will they vote down the Labour Brexit deal he negotiates and puts before conference. It might be a Labour leave.

Will Labour Remainer MPs jump ship in coming days?

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13 minutes ago, thehowler said:

More democratic except they said no to a GE when it was offered - twice.

More democratic as long as you don't want to vote for no CU/WTO/or no deal.

More democratic except we don't even know what their deal will be or whether they can get it, in three months.

More democratic unless they have a small majority (and that's a push) and a few rebels don't mean other parties can block their ref wording/deal etc.

Well you can fetishise the conflict that brexit has unleashed on the nation as much as you like. Labour has a way out of this mess if you ask me.

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1 hour ago, thehowler said:

They have just backed Corbs, in heated scenes.

Labour are not going into the GE backing remain. Or leave. They will decide which they're supporting only after victory.

So if you meet a Labour supporter tonight who says their party backs remain...oh no they don't.

Which is fine, because who gives a feck about Labour's Brexit policy

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29 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Yes it disappears when you are no longer part of the Single Market. For goods, tariffs that are equal (or much more) to the entire profit of manufacture and make it impossible to manufacture here.

So we will see hundreds of billions in all sorts of industries disappear in short order? I see. Hmm...

30 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

No, just the manufactures themselves, who have started this fact many many times and idiots like yourself refuse to believe because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Well I can't beat omniscience and that's a fact. I would normally say that such an assertion is utterly delusional and would only be made by an idiot who has no idea what they're talking about but if you know well..

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