Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[sPinwheel]

3 minutes ago, ccc said:

Nope - your talking nonsense. We need people ? We get them. Easy as that. End of story. 

Bizzare thing to say. Do we just ship them in? 

Meanwhile..

 

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

Irish renew Brexit battle after Tories backtrack and claim border deal is not legally binding

Ireland says last-gasp agreement to ensure no hard border with Northern Ireland is "cast iron". Davis told BBC1's The Andrew Marr Show: "This was a statement of intent more than anything else. "Much more a statement of intent than it was a legally enforceable thing."

The Irish government responded strongly, stating the deal was "binding" and it would hold the UK "to account" on it. Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar heralded Friday's the last-minute deal as "politically bullet-proof" and "cast iron".

And the Irish government's chief whip, Joe McHugh, has now branded the Brexit Secretary's comments as "bizarre". "My question to anybody within the British Government would be, why would there be an agreement, a set of principled agreements, in order to get to phase two, if they weren't going to be held up? That just sounds bizarre to me. "This, as far as we're concerned, is a binding agreement, an agreement in principle." dailyrecord

 

How serious negotiating partner the UK is and what's Britain's negotiating strategy?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Futuroid said:

Yep, I don't want to blow my own trumpet ()... but... I was one of many on here who predicted this.

With Brexit related legislation taking up the majority of scheduled parliamentary time over the next two years - and most likely beyond - you can expect sudden crisis after crisis in the NHS, the economy, housing, etc as the collective eye is taken off the ball(s).

Oh no, woe is us - how will the NHS survive without the Conservative Party micromanaging it and further privatising it?

Politicians, in the large, are people who excelled in the school debating societies, then couldn't think of anything else to do in their lives.

Keeping them busy enough not to further 'help/sort' i.e. - privatise, help to buy - NHS and housing is a good thing, IMO.

[dugsbody]

17 minutes ago, rollover said:

 

How serious negotiating partner the UK is and what's Britain's negotiating strategy?

Essentially the UK wanted to get onto phase 2 in order to see in more detail what sort of trading arrangement they could come to. The only way to do that was to "resolve" the three issues of Irish border, citizens rights and settlement. If it turns out that they are not satisfied with the phase 2 talks, they'll backtrack on the recent agreements and inevitably fall out with no deal. It is dishonest but necessary if you're a brexiter who made ridiculous promises. I'm not at all surprised, it just reinforces my opinion that the brexiter politicians are  almost all a low life bunch of c...nts. Pardon my French.

Edited December 10, 2017 by dugsbody

[MARTINX9]

3 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

it's a two way deal my kid started at Uni in Munich this year paying almost nothing for tuition 129Euro.

Not quite - all Germans can take advantage of those low fees in Germany and those zero tuition fees in Scotland. English or Welsh kids have to pay £9k a year at Scottish universities. 

[ccc]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

The UK government made the choice, they also put no resources into policing it - usual story.

We have an open door to 502 million people. End of story. Whatever way you want to spin it. 

1 hour ago, sPinwheel said:

Bizzare thing to say. Do we just ship them in? 

Meanwhile..

 

We give visas to who we need and we pick and choose. What exactly do you find so difficult about this tried and tested plan ? 

[pig]

4 minutes ago, ccc said:

We have an open door to 502 million people. End of story. Whatever way you want to spin it. 

We give visas to who we need and we pick and choose. What exactly do you find so difficult about this tried and tested plan ? 

So does the rest of the continent end of story. And we have an open door out to the rest of the continent. OK end of story. Or we could all live in Cornwall - Ok Ok now end of story. Man alive !! St Ives has an open door to 502 million people !!!! END OF THE MOTHER OF ALL STORYS !!!!

Or we could just end the story where you ended it instead - but then that would be a very very specific spin on the story lol!

[Take Me Back To London!]

 

Another top ex-/Euro honcho, Martin Schulz, former President of European Parliament (2012-17) spells it out for a centralised Europe. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/07/german-spd-leader-martinschulz-seeks-united-states-europe-2025/

 

Quote

 

'United States of Europe by 2025': German SPD leader names his price for joining Merkel coalition

The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.

Martin Schulz, the leader of the German Social Democratic Party (SPD), called for a new federal constitution for the EU by 2025.

Hours before his party voted to open talks on forming a new coalition with the beleaguered Angela Merkel, Mr Schulz made clear he would demand radical EU reform and far deeper integration than previously envisaged as his price for ending weeks of political crisis in Germany.

“I want a new constitutional treaty to establish the United States of Europe. A Europe that is no threat to its member states, but a beneficial addition,” he said in a speech to his party conference.

Under Mr Schulz’s proposals, Brussels would be given power over individual member states’ foreign and domestic policy, as well as taxes.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Take Me Back To London!

[Take Me Back To London!]

Today, Remainer, Vince Cabel, MP stated he is against the EU army and countries being forced to join Euro.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/890486/Brexit-showdown-Cable-Farage-EU-Juncker-Remainer

Quote

 

During the lengthy interview, Sir Vince admitted that the Brexit payment plan was a disaster and echoed Mr Farage's criticism of Jean-Claude Juncker and his fellow EU elite leaders.

Mr Farage brought up that the EU was heading down a direction of closer political integration under the leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.

Much to the MEP's surprise, the arch-Remainer also lashed out at this policy direction, and criticised the plans for an EU army and to force all member-states to join the euro.

 

 

[Peter Hun]

17 minutes ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

Today, Remainer, Vince Cabel, MP stated he is against the EU army and countries being forced to join Euro.

 

Are you still spouting that Garbage?

And how can the EU force any country to use the Euro? It can't . 

[PalmerEldritch]

10 hours ago, Futuroid said:

Not sure what your point is*, we knew as long ago as June this year that Brexit would completely dominate the parliamentary timetable:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/queens-speech-today-latest-brexit-dominates-theresa-may-agenda-eight-bills-eu-withdrawal-a7800426.html

Basically the UK parliament has become a wheel re-invention society for the next decade / however long it takes.

* = It's OK, I'm used to seeing pointless posts from Brexitluvvers .

Point is that you are possibly drama queens overstating brexit as the end of the world. It’s not that difficult to figure out.

Yes, there are many difficulties and what people originally voted for may not be what they actually get but some of the comments on here are way over the top. You’d think we were going to end up like a third world country the way some folks are commenting and we should all start hoarding canned goods and shotguns right now  as it will be that much of a disaster.

Jesus Christ all that is happening is we are leaving an economic model and beginning a new relationship with the outside world.

[jonb2]

54 minutes ago, PalmerEldritch said:

Point is that you are possibly drama queens overstating brexit as the end of the world. It’s not that difficult to figure out.

Yes, there are many difficulties and what people originally voted for may not be what they actually get but some of the comments on here are way over the top. You’d think we were going to end up like a third world country the way some folks are commenting and we should all start hoarding canned goods and shotguns right now  as it will be that much of a disaster.

Jesus Christ all that is happening is we are leaving an economic model and beginning a new relationship with the outside world.

You think?

Still a Boris/Gove/Farage/Rees-Mogg/Davis believer then? All those fecking trade deals ... can't wait ...

Until 2053.

[smash]

1 hour ago, PalmerEldritch said:

Point is that you are possibly drama queens overstating brexit as the end of the world.

 

4 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

 

 

 

[poppie]

3 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Not quite - all Germans can take advantage of those low fees in Germany and those zero tuition fees in Scotland. English or Welsh kids have to pay £9k a year at Scottish universities. 

Quite simply then : why does the British government charge English,Welsh and Scottish students in England £9K per year (and rising)?

Welsh students in Wales charged IIRC £4k per annum.

I think the ruling is shaft one, shaft all :EU fees in England are £9K+.  Not many Germans would want that when it's free at home.

[Confusion of VIs]

6 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Not quite - all Germans can take advantage of those low fees in Germany and those zero tuition fees in Scotland. English or Welsh kids have to pay £9k a year at Scottish universities. 

The beauty of the EU is you can study anywhere and pay no more than the locals. If we want to charge our kids 9k that's our right, if our kids want to study abroad for nothing that's their right.

I should have mentioned my kid also gets 300 Euro a month from the German government to help with accommodation expenses. The end result is when she qualifies she will have a great degree from a top university, be able to speak a foreign language and have about 50k less debt than if she had gone to university in the UK.  

The only question is why don't more UK students do this, they can't all be little Englanders with limited ambitions and horizons.       

Edited December 11, 2017 by Confusion of VIs

[MARTINX9]

11 hours ago, ccc said:

You know what happens in Australia ? They have a working holiday visa programme. One year Visa as long as you're under 35. Work at whatever you want. Then leave. 

But if you work in one of the areas where their government declared it's a shortage ? You get to stay an extra year. And then leave.

This nonsense about crops rotting in the fields and us not being able to cope is complete 100% nonsense. 

Pure 100% project fear. It's shameful.

 

Apparently the Aussie model is just too complicated for us. We must have free movement for highly skilled car washers to get highly skilled doctors.

Project fear continues of course - if we are to believe the usual suspects there has been a mass departure of EU doctors and nurses from the NHS due to Brexit. But the number of EU nationals working for the NHS actually rose by 3000 in the year to June 2017. 10000 left and 13000 joined. But you never heard about the 13000 who joined!

People do move jobs and return home - and it isn't always due to Brexit - and more come and take their place.

Edited December 11, 2017 by MARTINX9

[OnionTerror]

Well, well, well..EU negotiating stance...

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-12-08-08-37_01.pdf

Such transitional arrangements, which will be part of the Withdrawal Agreement, must be in the interest of the Union, clearly defined and limited in time. In order to ensure a level playing field based on the same rules applying throughout the Single Market, changes to the acquis adopted by EU institutions and bodies will have to apply both in the United Kingdom and the EU.  All existing Union regulatory, budgetary, supervisory, judiciary and enforcement instruments and structures will also apply. As the United Kingdom will remain a member of the Customs Union and the Single Market (with all four freedoms) during the transition, it will have to continue to apply and collect EU customs tariffs and ensure all EU checks are being performed on the border vis-à-vis other third countries.

[ccc]

1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

Apparently the Aussie model is just too complicated for us. We must have free movement for highly skilled car washers to get highly skilled doctors.

Project fear continues of course - if we are to believe the usual suspects there has been a mass departure of EU doctors and nurses from the NHS due to Brexit. But the number of EU nationals working for the NHS actually rose by 3000 in the year to June 2017. 10000 left and 13000 joined. But you never heard about the 13000 who joined!

People do move jobs and return home - and it isn't always due to Brexit - and more come and take their place.

Yep - we just won't cope. Poor wee us - let's just cancel Brexit and tell the EU we are so sorry for thinking we could cope by our poor wee selves.

[Peter Hun]

13 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Essentially the UK wanted to get onto phase 2 in order to see in more detail what sort of trading arrangement they could come to. The only way to do that was to "resolve" the three issues of Irish border, citizens rights and settlement. If it turns out that they are not satisfied with the phase 2 talks, they'll backtrack on the recent agreements and inevitably fall out with no deal. It is dishonest but necessary if you're a brexiter who made ridiculous promises. I'm not at all surprised, it just reinforces my opinion that the brexiter politicians are  almost all a low life bunch of c...nts. Pardon my French.

Meanwhile, companies wait for a clear picture of the future before triggering they contingency plans.

The brexiteers are f***ing idiots,  they seem incapable of understanding that jobs and investment will leave the UK unless a firm commitment to the future is give NOW, not next month.

[Peter Hun]

9 hours ago, jonb2 said:

You think?

Still a Boris/Gove/Farage/Rees-Mogg/Davis believer then? All those fecking trade deals ... can't wait ...

Until 2053.

If the EU cannot give the UK any better trade deal that it has given to the rest of the World, it follows that the UK cannot get any better trade deals (from the rest of the World) than the EU, because the EU/USA would block it.

 

[ccc]

4 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Meanwhile, companies wait for a clear picture of the future before triggering they contingency plans.

The brexiteers are f***ing idiots,  they seem incapable of understanding that jobs and investment will leave the UK unless a firm commitment to the future is give NOW, not next month.

The "Brexiters" were told they were idiots and as soon as the vote happened investment in the UK would collapse.

It didn't. You just going to change this as it goes along to suit the narrative of the day ? 

I've just watched a bit in GMTV. They had Ben Shepherd from open Britain and Michael Howard. Again - it was the remain side just blatantly making stuff up. Shamelessly. 

Shepherd stated there are hard line Brexiters in the government who want "NOTHING to do with Europe".

Fair dos to Howard for pointing out this was nonsense and leaving the EU wasn't the same as leaving Europe full stop. 

Why do the remain side continue to just make stuff up continually even though it's pointed out to them it's nonsense. Yet they ignore it and just continue like robots ? 

It's like a religion. Very strange.

[sexton]

21 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

If the EU cannot give the UK any better trade deal that it has given to the rest of the World, it follows that the UK cannot get any better trade deals (from the rest of the World) than the EU, because the EU/USA would block it.

 

Succinct and logical but you must see that in Brexit Wonderland logic is not used.

[IMHAL]

On 09/12/2017 at 12:51 PM, MARTINX9 said:

Easy to solve? Have you seen the chaos and problems caused by our attempts to simplify the welfare system and introduce universal credit. We haven't the systems or competence to introduce a contributory based system beyond the basic state pension - the whole suite of tax credits and other handouts would have to go and no government would have the guts to do it. Even Osborne backed down over some sensible reforms to tax credit - and that was under a majority Tory government when austerity was still in vogue.

So we have the obvious alternative - restrict access for non citizens and new arrivals for a long period of time say three years. If you can't support yourself - tough - return home where you do have welfare rights. 

An independent nation like Australia or NZ can do that - under this deal we won't be able to as under the family reunification agreement the number of relatives who could come over to access UK welfare including social care and the NHS is huge.

All the bleeding hearts wouldn't allow it and our civil service is too incompetent to design and administer a contributory based system. 

 

5 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Apparently the Aussie model is just too complicated for us. We must have free movement for highly skilled car washers to get highly skilled doctors.

Project fear continues of course - if we are to believe the usual suspects there has been a mass departure of EU doctors and nurses from the NHS due to Brexit. But the number of EU nationals working for the NHS actually rose by 3000 in the year to June 2017. 10000 left and 13000 joined. But you never heard about the 13000 who joined!

People do move jobs and return home - and it isn't always due to Brexit - and more come and take their place.

I see, so we can't possibly simplify the benefits system but we can administer a points system. So pre BREXIT we have incompetent government who can't administer a complex system and post BREXIT we suddenly have a competent governement who can adminster complex systems.

BREXIT seems to be having and AMAZING transformational effect. Must be the cure all silver bullet. What else will BREXIT do for our feckless politicians?

[Riedquat]

38 minutes ago, sexton said:

Succinct and logical but you must see that in Brexit Wonderland logic is not used.

The sort of "logic" that implies there's only one possible trade deal that the EU can make with anyone in the rest of the world. Logic never has been a Remainer strong point.

[MARTINX9]

5 hours ago, ccc said:

Yep - we just won't cope. Poor wee us - let's just cancel Brexit and tell the EU we are so sorry for thinking we could cope by our poor wee selves.

Seems champagne is in order because the EU has finally agreed a trade deal with Japan after 7 years of talking.  Switzerland agreed a trade deal with Japan a decade ago. Switzerland also has a trade deal with China - no sign of any EU deal with the world's largest emerging economy.  Speaks volumes about the EU and how slow it moves.

Edited December 11, 2017 by MARTINX9