Riedquat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, thehowler said: He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you? Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit. He still abused his position though. In trying to deal with a Parliament that was trying its hardest to shirk its responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Freki said: Even Nigel is not very supportive of BoJo Farage sounding reasonable, shows how bad things are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 So what now? Johnson quits, the press laud him as a man who did his best but was stymied by the judiciary, Corbyn runs around trying vainly to form a government for a few days, a GE is then called.... Which the tories win handsomely with the support of the red tops? Will they get a big enough majority to nullify the tory rebel vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, thehowler said: He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you? Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit. Using a blunt instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, thehowler said: He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you? Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit. He overpromised to win the leadership, May's deal is essentially the only deal available. Accept that and we can leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, thehowler said: He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you? Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit. Focus your mind on the important issue here. The government acted unlawfully. Edited September 24, 2019 by grasshopper Changed illegally to unlawfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, AThirdWay said: So what now? Johnson quits, the press laud him as a man who did his best but was stymied by the judiciary, Corbyn runs around trying vainly to form a government for a few days, a GE is then called.... Which the tories win handsomely with the support of the red tops? With who at the top? Does Johnson quit as PM or Conservative party leader too, so is he back in the event of that GE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, grasshopper said: Focus your mind on the important issue here. The government acted illegally. Like ruling out no deal as an option ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, thehowler said: He did offer a GE before prorogation. Was that the wrong kind of democracy for you? Johnson is trying to push through some kind of Brexit. He is being destroyed. That's what happens to PMs that try to do something on Brexit. You kind of understood it above - just got a bit confused. Your head recognised the judges couldn't find in favour of the government or democracy would be fecked. It wouldn't surprise me if half those judges were hesitant but recognised what was at stake. Your heart is 'Brexit/BJ/Tories' so they had to find in favour of the government but with er... 'recommendations' to assuage the cognitive dissonance. He is 'destroying' himself and trying to take the country with him. Perhaps that is the fate of any partisan Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfiredup Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: The reality was Parliament was in control, perfectly entitled to push its agenda and to choose the timing of any GE. 11-0 And still Leavers blathering about legal issues they don't understand all over the internet. Even after blocking a GE, going back on 2017 promises, and even some changing parties with no by-elections? Plus creating new laws. Who knows what new law they would have come up with next! Edited September 24, 2019 by allfiredup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Riedquat said: He still abused his position though. In trying to deal with a Parliament that was trying its hardest to shirk its responsibilities. Yes, court decision is right. But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40! So will Labour call for a GE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Farage sounding reasonable, shows how bad things are. He smells Brexit Party votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Just now, pig said: Your head recognised the judges couldn't find in favour of the government or democracy would be fecked. It wouldn't surprise me if half those judges were hesitant but recognised what was at stake. That sounds like considering issues beyond what the technicality of the law is. Quote He is 'destroying' himself and trying to take the country with him. Perhaps that is the fate of any partisan Brexit. The ones destroying the country are the ones who'll do anything rather than accept Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, thehowler said: Yes, court decision is right. But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40! So will Labour call for a GE? Fair enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, crouch said: Quite right I don't. If there was a "plan" why would you assume that I would have it? The fact that I don't have it does not mean that one does not exist - even in your terms. I assume the governmnet would have on eif it existed. I think it's in the public interest to know what economic outcome they voted for Government is responsible for this. Why would you assume that any plan(s) would be published for your scrutiny. Not my scrutiny, an independent body, the ONS for example. In order to make it credible. As for the plan making us poorer or richer you yourself have said that a plan is just that; it does not determine outcomes and requires adjustment as time goes on. Correct, but you need one in the first place. You want to say Brexit is unequivocally bad and you can't. I just want to know what we are aiming for and if we have a plan in place to achieve it. Crouchy.....there is no evidence of an objective, of a plan, of a forecast. Brexit is an empty vessel powered by bluster of the type you so admirably demonstrate. It is BS. It is fantasy. It is............. Project Unicorn. Edited September 24, 2019 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, longgone said: Like ruling out no deal as an option ? I am more interested in how we protect our representative democracy, than the particular issue of Brexit. If we leave we leave and if we stay we stay. But, whatever the end result this should be done within the confines of upholding parliamentary democracy and the rule of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, thehowler said: Yes, court decision is right. But what next? If Boris resigns, does he stay as Tory leader? It was grotesque - and unlawful - for Boris to prorogue, but is it any less grotesque - if lawful, because of FTPA - for Parliament to keep him in place as a zombie PM, unable to pass laws or carry out any state business effectively? Boris has a minus majority of around 40! So will Labour call for a GE? it was certainly grotesque of him but the reporting I've seen doesn't appear to be concentrating much on precisely what the problem was technically, which I find concerning. Will Labour call for a GE? They've been doing so for ages then got cold feet when it was offered. I'm starting to think that no party really wants one, all fearing they'll get hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: He overpromised to win the leadership, May's deal is essentially the only deal available. Accept that and we can leave. It won't get through the House. Labour rebel MPs won't back him now - can say they're waiting to see the 2nd ref Labour leave option - and he needs them to stand a chance of passing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Looks like Boris and Cummings will be on their bikes now that the wheels have come off their grand plan. The master strategists are looking like halfwits, but then that's what they've always been. Hilarious. Edited September 24, 2019 by Social Justice League typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, IMHAL said: Crouchy.....there is no evidence of an objective, of a plan, of a forecast. Brexit is an empty vessel powered by bluster of the type you so admirably demonstrate. It is BS. It is fantasy. It is............. Project Unicorn. Why should there be evidence that is available to you? You just don't know; you just make the assumptions to fit your views no less than me. Your views are no less unicorn than mine; the only difference is that I'll admit it but you won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Riedquat said: That sounds like considering issues beyond what the technicality of the law is. Yes, the existence of the rule of law. 1 minute ago, Riedquat said: The ones destroying the country are the ones who'll do anything rather than accept Brexit. That philosophical blank cheque to excuse any old cr4p is getting a bit tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfiredup Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 The court should have also ordered a GE if they believe MP's debating Brexit is that important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, grasshopper said: Focus your mind on the important issue here. The government acted illegally. That is very important. I understand the court decision. But I think the more important issue is the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, grasshopper said: I am more interested in how we protect our representative democracy, than the particular issue of Brexit. If we leave we leave and if we stay we stay. But, whatever the end result this should be done within the confines of upholding parliamentary democracy and the rule of law. If that was true this chitshow would not take 3 years and be no further. Longer it goes on the more destruction is caused one silver lining then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Fun ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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