Quicken Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I'm getting pretty tired of the ongoing rail strikes to be honest. We need driverless trains pronto (much simpler than driverless cars). In other areas, I think a big problem is certain sectors of workers claiming they deserve a bigger pay rise than others when all are affected by price inflation. Another problem was giving out inflation-matched increases to both pensions and benefits. Government set a precedent there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morty Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Case in point the state education system is such that a lot of people don’t realise a wage spiral is a race to the bottom. NHS has always been average no matter how much cash is poured down that hole. The police seemingly avoid risky situations and focus on easy targets. Rail workers are overpaid as it is, what are train drivers on now lol. To top it off the private sector is on its knees and the country is basically at war but a pay rise. I basically hate my life, I’m so bitter but c’mon why not have a goal of affordable housing and low cost standard of living. Number one stop the property speculation, it’s out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Quicken said: I'm getting pretty tired of the ongoing rail strikes to be honest. We need driverless trains pronto (much simpler than driverless cars). In other areas, I think a big problem is certain sectors of workers claiming they deserve a bigger pay rise than others when all are affected by price inflation. Another problem was giving out inflation-matched increases to both pensions and benefits. Government set a precedent there. Personally I have no need of driverless trains, in fact on balance I’d rather trains were staffed. Do you represent shareholders ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Strikes are a good way for people to remind the elitevthat actually the elite have no power at all if the people don't work So at the moment I support them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva24 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Haven't got a whole lot of support for strikers re pay. Re work terms and conditions and dangerous staffing levels yes, absolutely right to strike, re pay don't support it. Most private sector workers have rubbish pensions in comparison to public sector and if you don't like your pay - apply for another job. Loads of private sector and small businesses struggling so don't support striking re wages. A national strike for redistribution of wealth from the 1% sure but just public sector people striking no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Quicken said: I'm getting pretty tired of the ongoing rail strikes to be honest. We need driverless trains pronto (much simpler than driverless cars). In other areas, I think a big problem is certain sectors of workers claiming they deserve a bigger pay rise than others when all are affected by price inflation. Another problem was giving out inflation-matched increases to both pensions and benefits. Government set a precedent there. Where I work in Central London, there have been quite a few pubs and eateries that have shut down over the past few months. These were a mix of chains and independents. Furthermore, there are number of vacant properties that have been vacant for several months. While there will obviously be other factors, such as the high energy bills, greedy landlords and the shift to hybrid working, I suspect the rail strikes could for many have been the final straw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hullabaloo82 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 A lot of people live in an utter fantasy land when it comes to their understanding of the public sector. I've flitted between both throughout the course of my career and currently work in a privatised former public service role. The idea that "waste" magically disappears in the private sector is utterly laughable, as is the notion that for the few genuine like for like roles public sector staff are getting paid more. As a pen pusher I've seen the gap widen and widen over the last ten years or so to the point where I'm probably paid 50% higher at least than equivalent public sector jobs now, with my pay rising at double digits at the minute. Not even the pension would tempt me back at this point. People also don't seem to understand there is no real private sector equivalent of a lot of the people striking, barring the much smaller numbers of teachers and medical professionals in the private sector and pay in schools, blue light services and the NHS is artificially capped by payscales rather than set by demand so what choice do people have other than strike action? The bottom line is these are qualified professionals who will just go and do this for more money abroad in countries that actually understand the need for their skills, leaving the rest of us to pay through the nose for what little private provision there is. "Deserving" or otherwise doesn't come into it; it's people who provide a service we need who we are expecting to accept goodwill for payment. That's not sustainable. Sorry if your job at the pie gristle factory isn't looking at an equivalent raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg50000 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said: A lot of people live in an utter fantasy land when it comes to their understanding of the public sector. I've flitted between both throughout the course of my career and currently work in a privatised former public service role. The idea that "waste" magically disappears in the private sector is utterly laughable, as is the notion that for the few genuine like for like roles public sector staff are getting paid more. As a pen pusher I've seen the gap widen and widen over the last ten years or so to the point where I'm probably paid 50% higher at least than equivalent public sector jobs now, with my pay rising at double digits at the minute. Not even the pension would tempt me back at this point. People also don't seem to understand there is no real private sector equivalent of a lot of the people striking, barring the much smaller numbers of teachers and medical professionals in the private sector and pay in schools, blue light services and the NHS is artificially capped by payscales rather than set by demand so what choice do people have other than strike action? The bottom line is these are qualified professionals who will just go and do this for more money abroad in countries that actually understand the need for their skills, leaving the rest of us to pay through the nose for what little private provision there is. "Deserving" or otherwise doesn't come into it; it's people who provide a service we need who we are expecting to accept goodwill for payment. That's not sustainable. Sorry if your job at the pie gristle factory isn't looking at an equivalent raise. Thanks for posting this. The number of uninformed half-wits on here bashing the public sector get very tiresome, very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbathpc Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I back some roles and not others. Teachers for example are not paid, or treated well enough. This is evidenced by the fact we have a huge shortage of them. Most people on this forum could be working as a teacher within a few months, given there is such a shortage. How many of us could get a job on the rail? I'd wager none of us.. so for them, stfu and get to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said: A lot of people live in an utter fantasy land when it comes to their understanding of the public sector. I've flitted between both throughout the course of my career and currently work in a privatised former public service role. The idea that "waste" magically disappears in the private sector is utterly laughable, as is the notion that for the few genuine like for like roles public sector staff are getting paid more. As a pen pusher I've seen the gap widen and widen over the last ten years or so to the point where I'm probably paid 50% higher at least than equivalent public sector jobs now, with my pay rising at double digits at the minute. Not even the pension would tempt me back at this point. People also don't seem to understand there is no real private sector equivalent of a lot of the people striking, barring the much smaller numbers of teachers and medical professionals in the private sector and pay in schools, blue light services and the NHS is artificially capped by payscales rather than set by demand so what choice do people have other than strike action? The bottom line is these are qualified professionals who will just go and do this for more money abroad in countries that actually understand the need for their skills, leaving the rest of us to pay through the nose for what little private provision there is. "Deserving" or otherwise doesn't come into it; it's people who provide a service we need who we are expecting to accept goodwill for payment. That's not sustainable. Sorry if your job at the pie gristle factory isn't looking at an equivalent raise. +1, nothing like a bit of schooling in the economic and political fundamentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 On 21/01/2023 at 08:52, Maghull Mike said: Big thumbs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Quicken said: I'm getting pretty tired of the ongoing rail strikes to be honest. We need driverless trains pronto (much simpler than driverless cars). In other areas, I think a big problem is certain sectors of workers claiming they deserve a bigger pay rise than others when all are affected by price inflation. Another problem was giving out inflation-matched increases to both pensions and benefits. Government set a precedent there. Personally I don’t care. At least on a strike day I know that there will be no service and can plan accordingly. Normally trains are cancelled at random, with 5 mins notice for reasons of “this is due to a timetable change” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, pig said: Personally I have no need of driverless trains, in fact on balance I’d rather trains were staffed. Do you represent shareholders ? No, but I don't have a car so every train strike makes me a second class citizen. EDIT: I should add, I favour public ownership of the railways with proper funding. What's your objection to automated trains? Edited January 22, 2023 by Quicken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Personally I don’t care. At least on a strike day I know that there will be no service and can plan accordingly. Normally trains are cancelled at random, with 5 mins notice for reasons of “this is due to a timetable change” Do you have a car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, cbathpc said: I back some roles and not others. Teachers for example are not paid, or treated well enough. This is evidenced by the fact we have a huge shortage of them. Most people on this forum could be working as a teacher within a few months, given there is such a shortage. How many of us could get a job on the rail? I'd wager none of us.. so for them, stfu and get to work. I see where you are coming from cbath. We are undervaluing certain roles in our society and overvaluing others. Professions like nursing, teaching and care are struggling to get effective workforce owing to a combination of working conditions, stresses and low pay. The obvious way to encourage more people into these professions is to improve pay and conditions, but the government is not making this an option for the public sector employers involved. In a private sector equivalent, when we left the EU, companies could not get sufficient lorry and van drivers for many activities. As a result, pay and conditions rapidly improved in order to encourage more drivers to train and join the profession. HGV pay and conditions remain better than pre-Brexit to this day. To be fair, we have a shortage of train drivers in the north too. Edited January 22, 2023 by 14stFlyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said: I see where you are coming from cbath. We are undervaluing certain roles in our society and overvaluing others. Professions like nursing, teaching and care are struggling to get effective workforce owing to a combination of working conditions, stresses and low pay. The obvious way to encourage more people into these professions is to improve pay and conditions, but the government is not making this an option for the public sector employers involved. To be fair, we have a shortage of train drivers in the north too. My daughter has been a secondary school teacher for over 12 years, and she has never indicated to me that there are shortages. However, there may be shortages in particular numerate subjects like maths and physics, and "rough" schools will always find it hard to recruit and retain staff. She did comment that during her training, some teachers were chucked off the course for their attitude which was deemed not to be compliant with modern teaching philosophy. AIUI there is no shortage of people wanting to work on the railways. There is however an economic constraint in that the operating companies will not hire more staff than needed, provided the existing staff do overtime. Northern railways are being subject to overtime bans which impacts this employment model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said: A lot of people live in an utter fantasy land when it comes to their understanding of the public sector. I've flitted between both throughout the course of my career and currently work in a privatised former public service role. The idea that "waste" magically disappears in the private sector is utterly laughable, as is the notion that for the few genuine like for like roles public sector staff are getting paid more. As a pen pusher I've seen the gap widen and widen over the last ten years or so to the point where I'm probably paid 50% higher at least than equivalent public sector jobs now, with my pay rising at double digits at the minute. Not even the pension would tempt me back at this point. People also don't seem to understand there is no real private sector equivalent of a lot of the people striking, barring the much smaller numbers of teachers and medical professionals in the private sector and pay in schools, blue light services and the NHS is artificially capped by payscales rather than set by demand so what choice do people have other than strike action? The bottom line is these are qualified professionals who will just go and do this for more money abroad in countries that actually understand the need for their skills, leaving the rest of us to pay through the nose for what little private provision there is. "Deserving" or otherwise doesn't come into it; it's people who provide a service we need who we are expecting to accept goodwill for payment. That's not sustainable. Sorry if your job at the pie gristle factory isn't looking at an equivalent The private sector can't pay and the government is already maxed out. So what people really mean is that the government should print more money, and cause even more inflation or increase the debt for the next generation to pay. Meanwhile the government hopes the bureaucracy all emigrate to somewhere where the services they offer are in demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quicken said: Do you have a car? yep but i use the West Coast mainline. We just reschedule meetings around them. Id never drive in preference. Genuinely. The service from Avanti is ******ing shocking. Yes the strikes are an annoyance but I was totally serious in my statement. At least we KNOW they wont be running as opposed to....will I get home at 6, or 8, or 11pm Edit: Top tip if you need to use these shysters for travel. Delay / Repay. Claim it EVERY SINGLE TIME you are >15 mins late, combine with seatfrog 1st class upgrades...at least you suffer in comfort. Im still up after two months of perpetual upgrades to first class. Its not cost me a penny to upgrade to first class overall. Edited January 22, 2023 by Chunketh forgot east from west. I blame Avanti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 53 minutes ago, Chunketh said: yep but i use the West Coast mainline. We just reschedule meetings around them. Id never drive in preference. Genuinely. The service from Avanti is ******ing shocking. Yes the strikes are an annoyance but I was totally serious in my statement. At least we KNOW they wont be running as opposed to....will I get home at 6, or 8, or 11pm Edit: Top tip if you need to use these shysters for travel. Delay / Repay. Claim it EVERY SINGLE TIME you are >15 mins late, combine with seatfrog 1st class upgrades...at least you suffer in comfort. Im still up after two months of perpetual upgrades to first class. Its not cost me a penny to upgrade to first class overall. I hear you. I used to be on the west coast mainline. Always the poor relation of the east coast mainline. These days I don't need to use the trains for work, but I do take regular trips into the highlands for hiking and also need trains to go to sporting events, family events, weddings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 9:29 AM, regprentice said: Yes. blew a tyre 6 months ago. council wont take responsibility for the cost. The process to claim for the cost of the tyre is ridiculous. Apparently i have to make a freedom of information request to the council to find out when they last checked the road for potholes and then tell them when they last checked the road for potholes before theyll consider deciding whether they had checked the road for potholes recently enough to be liable. For the roads it local govt, unless you mean motorways. Sorry to hear that and yes it’s an absolute joke the state of the roads. Friend fcked his front suspension driving through a deep pothole just before Christmas but the council have yet to acknowledge his email. You could literally fit a hairspray can in the depth of the hole and this was not the only pothole on this major road. If it’s not sunken drains its crumbling road and deep potholes. I’m surprised there is not more outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maghull Mike Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Bent my Ford Fiesta front wheel last year after hitting one at 12 mph! VERY careful where i drive Mike Edited January 23, 2023 by Maghull Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancunian284 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Interestingly, the non productive on the government payroll are getting decent pay rises ie pensioners and benefit recipients. So I don’t see why those who actually get off their arses to show up and do a job shouldn’t get a pay rise from their government employer too. The government have got it the wrong way round. Should have given the money to nurses, paramedics, teachers etc and let the benefits recipients and pensioners go on strike 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I support nurses and teachers striking. I couldn't/wouldn't do either of those jobs - it'd do my head in. Now, driving a train on the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 11 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Sorry to hear that and yes it’s an absolute joke the state of the roads. Friend fcked his front suspension driving through a deep pothole just before Christmas but the council have yet to acknowledge his email. You could literally fit a hairspray can in the depth of the hole and this was not the only pothole on this major road. If it’s not sunken drains its crumbling road and deep potholes. I’m surprised there is not more outrage. People don't have unlimited outrage, and they're pretty worn down by life at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkey Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 19 hours ago, Yvonne said: Haven't got a whole lot of support for strikers re pay. Re work terms and conditions and dangerous staffing levels yes, absolutely right to strike, re pay don't support it. Most private sector workers have rubbish pensions in comparison to public sector and if you don't like your pay - apply for another job. Loads of private sector and small businesses struggling so don't support striking re wages. A national strike for redistribution of wealth from the 1% sure but just public sector people striking no... 99% of the strikes are over pay. The work terms and conditions and staffing levels are just a smokescreen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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