Electric cars will cost more to run than petrol from October

[LetsBuild]

42 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-cars-will-expensive-run-petrol/

Electric cars will be more expensive to run than petrol

Cost of travelling long distances will be much higher under the new price cap

Electric vehicles will be more expensive to run than petrol equivalents from October as the latest price cap hike punishes drivers for going green.

The unit cost of electricity will nearly double under new energy prices released yesterday, taking it up to 56p per kWh, up from 28p. Petrol prices have fallen in recent weeks and stand at £1.70 per litre, in comparison.

As a result, it will cost more to travel long distances in an electric car than a petrol one – even before factoring in higher purchase prices for greener vehicles.

The owner of a Jaguars i-PACE, an electric SUV, would spend £99 more to travel the same distance as a driver in the petrol equivalent, the Jaguar f-PACE, according to calculations by breakdown service, the RAC.

Of course this does require there to be electricity in the first place. I still think we might actually get blackouts this winter depending on how the wind blows, this would also impact the forecourts ability to pump petrol on the petrol stations too, but I can at least store 30 litres at home and refill in 5 minutes if required.

[byron78]

29 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I think hydrogen will ultimately be the future due to this:

 

Oh wow. What is this? 

I feel like I've missed something!

Has there been a big leap forward or something else I've missed?

Amazing news (I hope!)

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

9 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Can't see it happening tbh. 

Most of the ones I use are provided by big companies/supermarkets etc.

Tax breaks for providing them (and also solar and other bits on site supplementing usually).

I charge at home most of the time tbh (free from my solar), but this winter I'll definitely be taking advantage of the various free points more (Isle of Wight - not than many free charge points tbh and they do fill up fast in the summer, but winter it's ever so easy to find a point).

 

 

There's your answer!

[Timm]

44 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I am seeing a lot of people piping up about hydrogen in the research and finance sectors.

I do wonder if we may suddenly see the pendulum swing in that direction?

The tech is ok now, but the infrastructure lags.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/electric-cars/93180/hydrogen-fuel-cells-do-hydrogen-cars-have-future

That said, the UK grid will not be able to cope with a full EV rollout, so may be that is setting the agenda?

Thank goodness for that.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

12 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Oh wow. What is this? 

I feel like I've missed something!

Has there been a big leap forward or something else I've missed?

Amazing news (I hope!)

 

Nuclear fusion reactors. I think they are probably 20 years away from commercialisation  (rather than 50), good progress is being made.

https://ccfe.ukaea.uk/fusion-energy/fusion-in-brief/

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[PeanutButter]

 

[byron78]

2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

Nuclear fusion reactors. I think they are probably 20 years away from commercialisation  (rather than 50), good progress is being made.

https://ccfe.ukaea.uk/fusion-energy/fusion-in-brief/

Brilliant news for humanity that.

Less so for Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the Koch brothers.

 

[2buyornot2buy]

7 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

Nuclear fusion reactors. I think they are probably 20 years away from commercialisation  (rather than 50), good progress is being made.

https://ccfe.ukaea.uk/fusion-energy/fusion-in-brief/

They're always 20 years away. 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

14 minutes ago, LetsBuild said:

Of course this does require there to be electricity in the first place. I still think we might actually get blackouts this winter depending on how the wind blows, this would also impact the forecourts ability to pump petrol on the petrol stations too, but I can at least store 30 litres at home and refill in 5 minutes if required.

 

I agree. 

I've already stocked up on Storm Lanterns.

Not so fussed about cold, but light is important.

BTW these are much safer than oil lamps: https://www.feuerhand.de/en/p/baby-special-276-zinc-plated-zinc-plated

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

1 minute ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

They're always 20 years away. 

It used to be 50, and I am talking commercialisation, not functioning.

[Pmax2020]

57 minutes ago, bodgittandscarper said:

Hands up who didn't see this coming a mile off? Of course free charging points will disappear!

 

It’s why I ditched electric and went back to diesel. 

In the central belt of Scotland throughout 2021 the free charging points were disappearing rapidly. Every council moved to fees. 

Sure I could still charge at my workplace but that only gets you so much for free. 

[nightowl]

2 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said:

It’s why I ditched electric and went back to diesel. 

In the central belt of Scotland throughout 2021 the free charging points were disappearing rapidly. Every council moved to fees. 

Sure I could still charge at my workplace but that only gets you so much for free. 

Even if charged for the tax rate on electric is far lower than on liquid fuels making comparisons in efficiency more complex.  From a consumer point of view it £ per mile, but from an energy point of view it's joules per mile.

[markyh]

10 minutes ago, longgone said:

Tanked hot water too, when i started to refurb my mothers place in 2009 every single plumber tried to force installation of a megaflow tank and system boiler.  Had to argue with two of them that a storage combi highflow boiler is sufficient for heating and hot water needs. You can turn the storage tank off so it works like a normal combi 

At least two baths per day for 2 people is £20 a month in gas at todays prices. 

No complicated system needed. 

I have now fitted a digital immersion heater timer to our Megaflow system.  Currently our Gas is 7.28pkwh , leccy overnight 4hrs on the EV tariff 7.5p kwh. Once is jumps in October to 15p kwh for Gas the gas hot water side is being switched off and heating daily early hours every morning via immersion which is thermostatically controlled too so wont over consume each night.   If we had no Megaflow tank with 3kw thermostatic immersion fitted we could not do this. 

 

[GeneCernan]

Well I've covered 64k miles in my Leaf, owned from new. Never goes further than 30 miles from home, we have another car for that stuff. Currently paying 5p/Kwh on Octopus Go, this goes up to 7.5p/Kwh in November. That will mean £1.80 to charge from flat to full (which never happens in practice). That gets us about 70 miles. Way cheaper fuelling cost that even the most economical little supermini.

I know I'm comapring apples with oranges, but the reality for a lot of EV owners is that they charge at home, and almost only at home, and very often on a tariff like Octopus Go. 

[markyh]

36 minutes ago, LetsBuild said:

Of course this does require there to be electricity in the first place. I still think we might actually get blackouts this winter depending on how the wind blows, this would also impact the forecourts ability to pump petrol on the petrol stations too, but I can at least store 30 litres at home and refill in 5 minutes if required.

There will not be blackouts. There is no shortage of Gas and Energy, it's just very very expensive as it's priced on Gas. You will see demand destruction from households and business on a scale not seen since the 1970's though.  High price will limit use. 

[markyh]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-cars-will-expensive-run-petrol/

Electric cars will be more expensive to run than petrol

Cost of travelling long distances will be much higher under the new price cap

Electric vehicles will be more expensive to run than petrol equivalents from October as the latest price cap hike punishes drivers for going green.

The unit cost of electricity will nearly double under new energy prices released yesterday, taking it up to 56p per kWh, up from 28p. Petrol prices have fallen in recent weeks and stand at £1.70 per litre, in comparison.

As a result, it will cost more to travel long distances in an electric car than a petrol one – even before factoring in higher purchase prices for greener vehicles.

The owner of a Jaguars i-PACE, an electric SUV, would spend £99 more to travel the same distance as a driver in the petrol equivalent, the Jaguar f-PACE, according to calculations by breakdown service, the RAC.

We hardly ever use Rapid chargers unless we wander further than 150 miles from home. Wife still charges for free at work, for however long that lasts and we still also only charge at home on 7.5p kwh overnight EV rates.  

This will not effect the majority of EV owners. 

[markyh]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I think hydrogen will ultimately be the future due to this:

 

Well as hydrogen production uses 2-3 x the leccy than just putting it in EV batteries, if people are willing to pay £4-£5 a litre for liquid hydrogen ith a worse MPG than a diesel good luck to them, i will stick with 350 mile range cheap to run EV's thanks.  

[Si1]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I suspect free charging points may cease to be free. 

Round my way lots of people charge at home.

Damn. I was running a crypto mining operation off free chargers.

[Si1]

32 minutes ago, GeneCernan said:

Well I've covered 64k miles in my Leaf, owned from new. Never goes further than 30 miles from home, we have another car for that stuff. Currently paying 5p/Kwh on Octopus Go, this goes up to 7.5p/Kwh in November. That will mean £1.80 to charge from flat to full (which never happens in practice). That gets us about 70 miles. Way cheaper fuelling cost that even the most economical little supermini.

I know I'm comapring apples with oranges, but the reality for a lot of EV owners is that they charge at home, and almost only at home, and very often on a tariff like Octopus Go. 

How do they charge that little per unit when normal elec prices are 30p / kWh for domestic use?

[crash-and-burn]

 

 

[Mandalorian]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

Nuclear fusion reactors. I think they are probably 20 years away from commercialisation  (rather than 50), good progress is being made.

https://ccfe.ukaea.uk/fusion-energy/fusion-in-brief/

Nuclear fusion.

"20 years away. And always has been."

[Bruce Banner]

The convenience of being able to fill up within a mile or two is still an advantage of fossil fuels. My 2ltr diesel does 45 mpg average and the wife's 1ltr petrol averages 60mpg.

Having said that, this looks fun....

Roadster | Tesla UK

Edited August 27, 2022 by Bruce Banner

[LetsBuild]

50 minutes ago, markyh said:

There will not be blackouts. There is no shortage of Gas and Energy, it's just very very expensive as it's priced on Gas. You will see demand destruction from households and business on a scale not seen since the 1970's though.  High price will limit use. 

Well that’s what the market is trying to achieve, but what if the government hands out more money and demand destruction (residential at least) isn’t allowed to happen?

[Si1]

30 minutes ago, crash-and-burn said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure Elon Musk deliberately targeted the aspirational market sector for Tesla. It's hard to shame that when that's the intention. That's how he said electric car adoption could increase across the industry.

Also, Teslas generally don't need servicing do they?

[Mandalorian]

2 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-cars-will-expensive-run-petrol/

Electric cars will be more expensive to run than petrol

Cost of travelling long distances will be much higher under the new price cap

Electric vehicles will be more expensive to run than petrol equivalents from October as the latest price cap hike punishes drivers for going green.

The unit cost of electricity will nearly double under new energy prices released yesterday, taking it up to 56p per kWh, up from 28p. Petrol prices have fallen in recent weeks and stand at £1.70 per litre, in comparison.

As a result, it will cost more to travel long distances in an electric car than a petrol one – even before factoring in higher purchase prices for greener vehicles.

The owner of a Jaguars i-PACE, an electric SUV, would spend £99 more to travel the same distance as a driver in the petrol equivalent, the Jaguar f-PACE, according to calculations by breakdown service, the RAC.

LOL