Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[andrewwk]

17 minutes ago, yelims said:

forgetting and not learning from history is a worse route to follow 

 

Brexit is just the first step on a path that these neo fascist Tories are taking you, they already moved into dismantling rights such as peaceful protest.

first, there is no need to view things through a binary lens. Acknowledge and learn from the evil actions in our history and celebrate the good. second, I am not British and may well not be living in the UK in a few years' time. my view is that nowhere in the West is on a good trajectory right now and the Blukip Tories are just one manifestation of this.

[yelims]

29 minutes ago, andrewwk said:

first, there is no need to view things through a binary lens. Acknowledge and learn from the evil actions in our history and celebrate the good. second, I am not British and may well not be living in the UK in a few years' time. my view is that nowhere in the West is on a good trajectory right now and the Blukip Tories are just one manifestation of this.

You claim I’m viewing things thru a binary lens and proceed to view everything through the same lens dismissing the road to fascism being taken in uk with a flippant “whatabout others”

No! other western countries are not turning to fascism, most of them even surround the UK, hell even the US stepped back from the brink with Trump now gone

brexit was a thin wedge with a Mussolini type figure now in charge of uk 

[andrewwk]

18 minutes ago, yelims said:

You claim I’m viewing things thru a binary lens and proceed to view everything through the same lens dismissing the road to fascism being taken in uk with a flippant “whatabout others”

No! other western countries are not turning to fascism, most of them even surround the UK, hell even the US stepped back from the brink with Trump now gone

brexit was a thin wedge with a Mussolini type figure now in charge of uk 

no, no please don't get so strident. I am sure we don't disagree that much, in fact I am sure I agree with a lot of what you say. Let's just leave it at that.

[Huggy]

Both the EMA and MHRA unsurprisingly understand the numbers behind the phrase 'very rare'

0.00004% is one of those numbers.

0.0002% is another.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Huggy

[pig]

5 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Apparent I'm a Brexiteer now.

Lol - thats the internet for you. Not as bad as Twitter mind.

[dugsbody]

11 minutes ago, yelims said:

You claim I’m viewing things thru a binary lens and proceed to view everything through the same lens dismissing the road to fascism being taken in uk with a flippant “whatabout others”

No! other western countries are not turning to fascism, most of them even surround the UK, hell even the US stepped back from the brink with Trump now gone

brexit was a thin wedge with a Mussolini type figure now in charge of uk 

I don't think things are that bad but they're not good either.

We have too many people in this country who just see all this as a team sport. Their side must win at all costs, the costs being the dismantling of respect for truth. 

To me, that is the most fundamental importance. If you don't respect the truth then everything else crumbles, because anything goes. I don't like what the UK has become but at a personal level, forgetting reading tabloids and forums, it is still a nice place to live. The people in my street are great, the pubs are great, the weather is still shit.

 

[yelims]

More news on Brexit vaccine 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56665517
 

Under-30s are to be offered an alternative Covid jab to the AstraZeneca vaccine due to the evidence linking it to rare blood clots, the UK's vaccine advisory body says.

A review by drugs regulator MHRA found by the end of March 79 people in the UK had suffered rare blood clots after vaccination - 19 of whom had died.

[skinnylattej]

6 hours ago, yelims said:

What has the Eu ever done for us? Well beside common recognition of professional qualifications for architects to build aqueducts 🤣

I have benefited from the EU as have many in the UK.  The largest source of FDI for the UK was EU countries, with £453 billion invested in 2013, representing 46% of the total FDI for that year.  More locally, EU investment in Cornwall, where I live, between 2000 and 2013 totaled £ 945 million, principal projects included: Newquay airport >£40 million, A30 trunk road improvements > £20 milion, Superfast broadband £53.5 million, Eden Project £26 million, Combined Universities Project £173.2 million, Newlyn Fish Market (oh the irony) £1.3 million, Aerohub Zone £4.4. million, Business start-up support £5.9 million.

Under the EU regulations and protocols I have been able to live in another EU country, and ply my trade in a dozen EU countries, helped by a unified system of chemical regulation.  I have been able to take part in projects sponsored by the EU under Framework 7 and Horizon 2020, and the company that I worked for benefited from be able to freely move employees between countries and recruit from across the EU.

The Single Market and associated advantages enabled projects to be run in many countries, and I had two projects running with companies based in the Republic of Ireland.

The UK was presented with a choice, stay or leave the EU and chose leave.  I believe it was the disadvantageous choice, but I'm not wet behind the ears, and am aware of the democratic deficit within the EU, and also the benefits and disbenefits of its protectionist stance.  In my view, and I'm open to both debate and correction, the biggest loss to the UK is that without a seat at the table your voice won't be heard.  Gove commented recently that he was suprised that he had not been informed of changes to the EU pesticides regs, well he had better get used to being suprised as the EU has no requirement to inform the UK of changes to its policies.

So the chemicals industry faces a number of serious challenges caused by Brexit including: direct export losses, falling margins caused by higher import and financing costs, international divestment, no access to REACH for UK regulators, some difficulties with Rules of Origin, customs declarations and compliance costs as the UK is now a Third Country, and supply chain problems with highly specialised low volume compounds for the polymer and coatings industries.

Since Teresa May made her 'Lancaster House' speech, it became clear the we were heading for a 'hard' Brexit, a view which was re-inforced when Barnier published the 'Barnier Staircase'. This should have rung alarm bells for many industries, especially the fishing and shellfish industries, as the Third Country directives were already published. 

I was, am, and will remain a believer in the benefits of European collaboration.  The EU is far from perfect, and the UK will have to make its way in the work outside, looking a protectionist European Union from the outside.  My crystal ball is bust, so I can't predict the future, but in my opinion too much has been sacrificed on the altar of 'sovereignty'.

The smaller countries within the EU also now have to face a new political environment.  Now that the UK has left the EU, the influence of the Franco-German axis will become more pronounced, and it may be that the functioning of the bloc will become more focused on their ideology, with deleterious effects of the periphery.  The F-G axis' influence can be seen in both the WA and the TCA.

Time to get off the soap-box and cook dinner.

 

[thecrashingisles]

2 hours ago, yelims said:

You claim I’m viewing things thru a binary lens and proceed to view everything through the same lens dismissing the road to fascism being taken in uk with a flippant “whatabout others”

No! other western countries are not turning to fascism, most of them even surround the UK, hell even the US stepped back from the brink with Trump now gone

brexit was a thin wedge with a Mussolini type figure now in charge of uk 

You are really deluding yourself. A fascist party is going to win a state election in Germany in a couple of months' time. The UK is a beacon of tolerance and rectitude in comparison to many places.

[Huggy]

2 hours ago, skinnylattej said:

I have benefited from the EU as have many in the UK. 

 

The millionnaire landlord Tony Blair was an full on remainer, maybe not simply for the purposes of inclusivity and diversity either.

[yelims]

https://dailyuknews.com/business/nematodes-become-latest-casualty-of-post-brexit-trade-glitches/
 

another niche industry gone

[skinnylattej]

9 minutes ago, Huggy said:

The millionnaire landlord Tony Blair was an full on remainer, maybe not simply for the purposes of inclusivity and diversity either.

I wish to make clear that I am not, and never have been a landlord.

I have rented accommodation in several countries as a temporary measure, and believe that a rental sector is part of a functioning housing market.

[Steppenpig]

6 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

For most of the time it existed the British Empire lost the UK money, Adam Smith analysed it in "The Wealth of Nations" and promptly announced the Empire was a waste of money. Most of it (yes including Ireland) was acquired in fits of English paranoia that the continental powers would get there first. India, North America, Australia all acquired to stop the French getting them. The first fleet arrived in australia literally a few weeks before the french equivalent, they sailed off to colonize NZ and got wrecked in a storm.

Where did the UK's money come from? - well we did invent the steam engine and we were the world biggest producer of coal from 1890-1910, and the worlds biggest producer of oil in the 90's

We are an island built on coal surrounded by a sea full of fish as Nye Bevan observed.

Its weird and interesting how so much of the british empire happened often almost by accident or just the whim of some random bloke somewhere, often against the wishes of parliament, especially compared to the active empire building strategies of the continentals. Also interesting that many people on all sides of the debates were actually very enlightened (not just the british of course). In fact, the whole enterprise was "very british" from start to end.

 

(I don't know anything in depth, just what I read when I stray across it).

Edited April 7, 2021 by Steppenpig

[Huggy]

2 minutes ago, skinnylattej said:

I wish to make clear that I am not, and never have been a landlord.

I have rented accommodation in several countries as a temporary measure, and believe that a rental sector is part of a functioning housing market.

Oh, nothing was aimed at you chap, apologies if it looked like it. Tony Blair however, that massive shower of c##t, had everything aimed at him 😠

[sPinwheel]

20 minutes ago, Huggy said:

The millionnaire landlord Tony Blair was an full on remainer.

And Hitler was a vegetarian with a great concern for animal rights.

What's your point? Are all vegetarians also murderous facists too?

Logical fallacy #34

[Habeas Domus]

On 04/02/2021 at 16:54, onlooker said:

I'm not sure where you are coming from on this.

It is vital that free media is allowed to exist to expose hypocrisy, corruption, wrongdoing and abuse of power. But we can't do it without you

The SNP is guilty of all these things, yet manages to escape scrutiny because the Scottish media do no hold them to account. The likely direction of travel of Scotland under the SNP towards a one party state is widely discussed in the free press south of the border.

Craig Murray's blog has been an excellent source of detail on the legal battles between Sturgeon/Salmond

This video is a good summary of the whole thing (starts at 6 minutes in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NjRSUkkWE

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
The Salmond court case posts are currently deleted because Craig is now fighting a contempt of court action despite being very careful not to name any names or identifying information on his blog. This seems to me like a heavy handed attempt to cover up the truth and shows that the Scottish parliament have too much influence over the Scottish high court.

Recent press coverage has been very biassed against Salmond. The fact that 13 charges took only 2 days before they were all thrown out is a good indication that none of them could be taken seriously - many other abuse court cases have dragged on for weeks, Harvey Weinstein's trial took a month.

That hasn't stopped the Scottish and English press from treating Alex Salmond as though he had been found guilty.

[24gray24]

5 hours ago, yelims said:

 

brexit was a thin wedge with a Mussolini type figure now in charge of uk 

Slightly insane analysis?

Mussolini was theatre. Boris is comic relief. 

All this kerfuffle about curtailing rights to protest will probably get watered down by the Tories themselves. 

They may be the nasty party, but they're never going to turn into follow the leader fascists.  

 

 

[skinnylattej]

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

Oh, nothing was aimed at you chap, apologies if it looked like it. Tony Blair however, that massive shower of c##t, had everything aimed at him 😠

No insult taken, and I'm sure none intended.

Sleep well

[robmatic]

12 hours ago, Steppenpig said:

Its weird and interesting how so much of the british empire happened often almost by accident or just the whim of some random bloke somewhere, often against the wishes of parliament, especially compared to the active empire building strategies of the continentals. Also interesting that many people on all sides of the debates were actually very enlightened (not just the british of course). In fact, the whole enterprise was "very british" from start to end.

 

(I don't know anything in depth, just what I read when I stray across it).

The Anarchy by William Dalrymple is well worth reading about the history of the East India Company. They had hardly any oversight from Parliament or even their own head office in London and accidentally did a coup and took over Bengal.

[onlooker]

39 minutes ago, robmatic said:

The Anarchy by William Dalrymple is well worth reading about the history of the East India Company. They had hardly any oversight from Parliament or even their own head office in London and accidentally did a coup and took over Bengal.

Of course there wasn't much oversight. It took 3 months for a ship (if it made it safely) to sail from the UK to India, and 3 months for a reply to come back. What the EIC and UK Govt seemed most concerned about, was curruption and embezzlement (see the long running case against Warren Hastings, and he wasn't the only one). But many company representatives had high ideals. Wikipedia describes Warren Hastings as "an energetic organizer and reformer." In fact the whole Wikipedia article on Warren Hastings is worth reading for an insight into how Britain and the East India Company worked, its good and bad points.

[yelims]

13 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

Slightly insane analysis?

Mussolini was theatre. Boris is comic relief. 

All this kerfuffle about curtailing rights to protest will probably get watered down by the Tories themselves. 

They may be the nasty party, but they're never going to turn into follow the leader fascists.  

 

 

70,000 needless deaths is comical relief to you?

[pig]

13 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

Slightly insane analysis?

Mussolini was theatre. Boris is comic relief. 

All this kerfuffle about curtailing rights to protest will probably get watered down by the Tories themselves. 

They may be the nasty party, but they're never going to turn into follow the leader fascists.  

 

 

Its all about direction of travel and little steps are enough. The Tory party has degenerated into the caricature lefties love to portray - whats stopping them going further ?

Isn't there a quote about history being comedy second time round ?

 

[Peter Hun]

48 minutes ago, yelims said:

70,000 needless deaths is comical relief to you?

More like 150k needless deaths. Bojo the Clown delayed the lock downs against scientific advice and failed to control the border.

[Peter Hun]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/08/uk-secretly-sent-700000-astrazeneca-jabs-australia-despite-shortage/

[IMHAL]

I see Northern Ireland is kicking off again...just after brexit too...must just be a coincidence. How could it have possibly been predicted.