Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[OnionTerror]

You're not being serious are you ?

Open up Australia and Canada to 504 million people tomorrow - and I think you will see your answer within about 72 hours. If that.

There are alternatives (if we so wish) of purely open borders OR points systems. Have a look at Lichtenstein's

EEA hand brake option.

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86122

The chap who invented Flexcit seems to be beyond the curve, and seems to be the only one who has a credible solution post brexit

Edited June 29, 2016 by Dave Beans

[Sour Mash]

Eh?

Daily newspapers, Mr Farage and his ilk, all constantly SCAREMONGERING and pandering of the general electorates prime emotions.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=express+front+pages+refugees&rlz=1C1CAFB_enGB665GB665&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic1Nva6szNAhWDIsAKHVcPCsEQsAQIKg&biw=1366&bih=667

A meltdown in the Middle East and North Africa... ie; Tony Blair / George Bush style 'regime changes'.

UK with record arms deals to despotic ME regimes, who in turn pour them into places like Syria for fundamentalist monkeys to go blow up schools, hospitals, markets, etc... and with the 'terrible EU' fighting to embargo any arms transactions to these fvcknuts.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/25/david-cameron-brilliant-uk-arms-exports-saudi-arabia-bae

Saying the EU is to blame, yes...to a degree. But follow the money. Right to #10.

Oh yeah. And a serious lack of constructive debate on tele by informed and educated persons who actually have some integrity.

In other words, smoke and mirrors.

What probably lost it for remain was the total fustercluck of Merkel bizarrely opening the doors of Germany to refugees and the resulting streams of people flooding across Europes borders towards Germany. Then all the 'throwing out the window' of rules as countries scrambled to respond (fences going up in the Schengen zone) followed by all the dodgy dealing with Turkey, forced on the EU by Merkel once she realised how much trouble she was in with her own electorate.

After that, it was clear that rules meant nothing and basically Germany called the shots.

[Noallegiance]

Here's what I would do.

1) Exit EU immediately, rescinding all Acts of Parliament that need to be.

2) If necessary go through the motions of Article 50 though I'm not sure that's even necessary.

3) Accept default WTO trade rules with regard to EU trade.

4) Negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals with other countries, perhaps concentrating on Commonwealth nations.

5) Wait for the European nations to come begging for better trade deals for their goods. They sell far more to us than we do to them.

It would involve a little short term pain and we'd have to delay purchases of BMWs and Audis for a while but that's no great loss in the scheme of things. Our £ exchange rate can adjust to reflect our changing balance of trade and we can adjust interest rates to suit us. The individual nations in the EU can't. We can bring the whole lot down and break up the EU. The smaller, peripheral countries will break first and take the rest with them.

Job done.

The new cabinet needs the gardener.

[Errol]

Agree. I would have exited at midnight on the Friday of the Referendum result. I would have delivered a note to the EU saying that at midnight all the treaties cease to have effect. Cut them up.

Then I would probably follow 3, 4 and 5 on the gardener's list.

[Sour Mash]

...I've yet to see a points based system anywhere in the world that actually lowers immigration.. We currently use it for non EU citizens, and that number is higher than the open borders we have for eu citizens.

Points based system is about promoting quality, not necessarily about reducing quantity.

You want experencied, qualified, honest, (typically) younger people to come and work in areas for which there is a shortfall in available labour. What you don't want is floods of unskilled people of unknown provenance coming to work in low end jobs that anyone could do and ending up on benefits.

[Riedquat]

Agreed from the economic point of view if it doesn't turn into run on the UK. But it also mean lower standard of living.

That's what happens when living beyond your means catches up with you. How much this "lower standard of living" translates to losing anything particularly worth having remains to be seen, I suspect that it won't.

[billybong]

.

Edited June 29, 2016 by billybong

[billybong]

Nice graph. Any idea what caused the immigration to become much bigger issue in 2013? Is that a result of 2013 local election campaign?

The realisation by the population that Cameron's May 2010 election pledge to cut immigration down to tens of thousands was a blatant electioneering lie. The issue had evidently been a concern in some quarters before that election - who can forget Bigotgate (Brown/Mrs Duffy) just a few days before that election.

From May 2010 to the end of 2012 gave enough time to see if the tens of thousands was actually happening (with more than two full years of official statistics available since the pledge was made) and by then it was clear that the tens of thousands wasn't happening and probably wasn't ever going to happen under the LibLabCon.

The Rotherham abuses and other and similar abuses elsewhere also came more to light towards the end of 2012.

That's two possible reasons.

Edited June 29, 2016 by billybong

[Digsby]

I've read many comments, in this forum and otherwise, that it's not about immigration. So surely keeping the open border is not an issue

It's not about immigration in my personal case, but I recognise that it is for others (whether that be on this forum or just in the wider populace) and so immigration becomes a problem to solve rather than a concern to be condemned, and I do like a problem to solve!

It seems terribly naive to me if the architects of how free movement of people needs to be achieved successfully did not consider the implications and what checks and balances would be needed to minimise any possible negative effects and maximise while maximising the positive effects. If the plan was to just throw open all borders and let the chips fall where the may then that is just irresponsible.

Most people will always prefer to just stay put for obvious reasons, there has to be either a significant threat or opportunity to motivate people to migrate. All the time those motivations remain unchanged in certain areas, the flow of people will remain unchanged.

It may be that the hope and expectation was that the economies of the member states from which migrants originate would strengthen and grow as they are in effect exporting labour, until the point at which they themselves become a desirable migrant destination and attract inward flows - the opportunity.

It may alternatively (or equally) be that the expectation is that as the population concentrates in certain areas, a drop in the standard of living (or mere congestion) motivates people to migrate away to escape the overpopulation or the problems it causes (how many times have we discussed moving elsewhere to escape overpriced housing?) - the threat.

Both of these are the escape valve solution, and It seems to me that they have not worked because neither the threat or the opportunity has become great enough quickly enough to prevent the natives (in the loosest sense) of popular migrant destinations becoming disgruntled.

I don't think that controls are the best way to prevent that, but where not enough has already been done to prevent that, it seems sensible to me to introduce controls on a temporary basis the alleviate the issue while action is taken to rectify the situation though investment in other areas and financial reward (what's that employer scheme where they pay £1000 for a company to hire a non-native EU citizen? that could have been a successful policy if it had been restricted to certain member states as an incentive for evenly distributed migration).

This is the restrictive valve solution. It's not the ideal situation, but it is the mature response to hold your hand up and say "OK, we screwed up on that one, we need to take steps to remedy it and we need to reassess our approach".

To simply stick your fingers in your ear and refuse to accept that migration is something that needs to be managed carefully is no way forward when faced with discontent.

[Sheeple Splinter]

In the wake of the ECJ ruling on benefit payments to migrants, posted several times already, what are the reasons for the delay in UK stopping these benefit payments?

[warpig]

Complete hyperbole. ONE article popped up on google where 3 drunk idiots, who when questioned about swearing, engage in racist behavior. 3 people are not "a lot of racists." I appreciate there are a few other isolated cases, but you've completely misrepresented post BREXIT racism to suit your agenda.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/29/manchester-tram-racism-two-bailed-one-remains-in-custody

It's not about how you personally voted, it's about white British people telling black/indian/pakistani/etc people to get out. As if the EU is responsible for UK taking in those people. After the vote a lot of racists came out of the woodwork and they're targeting both other whites (e.g. Polish, EE) and people with the wrong skin colour regardless if they are British or not. And right now this is the picture of the UK which is reported by every other country.

Treating people differently based purely on skin colour is pretty much the definition of racism, and all the loonies took the referendum results as official permission to do that in public. If you google racism now you get a few dictionary definitions and all other links on the first page are about the UK. Just because you disagree it's racist doesn't mean the rest of the world is buying it.

And on top of all that, you have memes painting the UK as being full of hypocrites https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/10637001.jpg ( *Colonise half of the world* *Complain about immigration* ). And TV programmes saying about Farage's "independence day" speech that "Britain is what most countries celebrate their independence from".

[the gardener]

Samuel Tombs ‏@samueltombs

The EU won't compromise. But pub. opinion will change as economy falters. A 2nd ref would yield a different response

That's all very well but you forget that the economy and immigration are not issues that are mutually exclusive topics of concern. If the UK economy tanks who do you think will bear the brunt of job losses? Most likely it'll be the 90% of the jobs created over the last decade or so that were taken by immigrants. Do you think that 3 million + unemployed immigrants added to the half million arriving each year are going to make the immigration issue go away?

Besides, as has been said, if the UK economy gets sent to the hospital, several EU economies will be sent to the morgue.

[Sandwiches33]

My missus is an immigrant too, we have had some racist shit but the 99.9% of the UK are some of the best people you could meet. I also enjoy there rebellious streak which i think is what makes the UK great. Anti establishment going against the grain and distrusting authority are classic british traits.

You get racist dicks everywhere, you wanna see some real racism go to an insular Asian country and see how they treat you.

They lefty SJWs are only able to be free to whine because a whole bunch of mostly nameless and numbering in the millions of brits suffered enormously and died in filth somewhere. They always forget the sacrifice and also too the world would be a very very shitty place if the UK had never existed .Despite our government being dicks the people are the ones which make this place what it is and this is also why half the world wants to come here.

[Bloo Loo]

This thread illustrates the danger of the SJW indoctrination.

The "fact", the kiddies are relying on, is Border control = racism. And heres why:

This is a concept based on the hierachy of privilege, where a perception that a state (or any other class of person), which has great privilege, then uses its own power to control its own environment MUST, be a power of privilege.

Persons trying to enter the State, want something the State possesses and has the power to grant, which they dont have.

Being in the position of need makes the applicant to enter, oppressed.

Once you can locate the oppression on the hierachy of privilege, you can select a suitable "ist" term to describe the oppressors.

The oppressors cannot, under any circumstance, be the oppressed once so located and labelled, therefore the exact same circumstance in reverse, cannot be described as "ist"...

Thus, Border Control = Racism.

If its White Privilege, then a black/brown/yellow person cannot, by definition, be racist.

If its Male Privilege, then a Female cannot by definition, be sexist.

If its Straight (CIS) privilege, then a LBGTQ+ cannot be sexist.

Add in any exercise of the "privilege" is HATE.

Which of course, normal thinking people looking at facts rather than feelings, will be perplexed at. Political Correctness is the tool of choice to shut down argument, followed by throwing things.

A lifeboat is therefore racist if it doesnt accept 1 passenger more than its max. It cant not accept the extra person because racist. The boat then sinks because of its own newly acquired displacement, not because it allowed the extra weight on board.

SJWs ALWAYS fail to see the reason for limits, and blame the physics for later failures.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Bloo Loo

[spunko2010]

It's not about how you personally voted, it's about white British people telling black/indian/pakistani/etc people to get out. As if the EU is responsible for UK taking in those people. After the vote a lot of racists came out of the woodwork and they're targeting both other whites (e.g. Polish, EE) and people with the wrong skin colour regardless if they are British or not. And right now this is the picture of the UK which is reported by every other country.

Treating people differently based purely on skin colour is pretty much the definition of racism, and all the loonies took the referendum results as official permission to do that in public. If you google racism now you get a few dictionary definitions and all other links on the first page are about the UK. Just because you disagree it's racist doesn't mean the rest of the world is buying it.

And on top of all that, you have memes painting the UK as being full of hypocrites https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/10637001.jpg ( *Colonise half of the world* *Complain about immigration* ). And TV programmes saying about Farage's "independence day" speech that "Britain is what most countries celebrate their independence from".

Lord above, you're really buying into the BBC spin aren't you? I didn't think anyone would believe it, but evidently I've underestimated.

[the gardener]

My missus is an immigrant too, we have had some racist shit but the 99.9% of the UK are some of the best people you could meet. I also enjoy there rebellious streak which i think is what makes the UK great. Anti establishment going against the grain and distrusting authority are classic british traits.

You get racist dicks everywhere, you wanna see some real racism go to an insular Asian country and see how they treat you.

They lefty SJWs are only able to be free to whine because a whole bunch of mostly nameless and numbering in the millions of brits suffered enormously and died in filth somewhere. They always forget the sacrifice and also too the world would be a very very shitty place if the UK had never existed .Despite our government being dicks the people are the ones which make this place what it is and this is also why half the world wants to come here.

Amen to that.

People forget (or don't even know) that it was the British that ended the Slave Trade.

[warpig]

Well said.

[GinAndPlatonic]

"What we see here is markets taking advantage of the enormous supidity of Mark Carney, Christine Legarde and others"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zr990

Tim Martin chairman of Wetherspoons, talking lots of sense imo.

[SpectrumFX]

It's not about how you personally voted, it's about white British people telling black/indian/pakistani/etc people to get out. As if the EU is responsible for UK taking in those people. After the vote a lot of racists came out of the woodwork and they're targeting both other whites (e.g. Polish, EE) and people with the wrong skin colour regardless if they are British or not. And right now this is the picture of the UK which is reported by every other country.

Treating people differently based purely on skin colour is pretty much the definition of racism, and all the loonies took the referendum results as official permission to do that in public. If you google racism now you get a few dictionary definitions and all other links on the first page are about the UK. Just because you disagree it's racist doesn't mean the rest of the world is buying it.

And on top of all that, you have memes painting the UK as being full of hypocrites https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/10637001.jpg ( *Colonise half of the world* *Complain about immigration* ). And TV programmes saying about Farage's "independence day" speech that "Britain is what most countries celebrate their independence from".

I put this in another thread, bit I'll copy it here too

Racists voted for exit, therefore everybody who voted for exit is a racist, and the concept of exit itself is therefore racist, is a false equivalence which is itself being used as an emotive Ad Hom.

It's also being argued (and it would appear presented as the accepted narrative in the mass media) that out voters have somehow validated racist thought, and therefore are responsible for an apparent spate of racially motivated attacks. This view presupposes that the original false equivalence that exit=racist is correct.

The media and agitators such as yourself who present the exit=racist narrative are responsible for any validation that may have arisen amongst racist thinkers. Well done. You've convinced a tiny minority of hard of thinking racists that 52% of the country are on their side.

Edited June 29, 2016 by SpectrumFX

[the gardener]

Amen to that.

People forget (or don't even know) that it was the British that ended the Slave Trade.

They all think that Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter freed all the slaves.

Well I suppose he did in a way. Only it was just the American ones which they had been clinging on to half a century after the British had outlawed the Slave Trade.

[Quicken]

A few possibilities:

People start whining when they realise petrol and their summer holiday have got more expensive. Then general shop price inflation.

Continued political vacuum and uncertainty about future UK trade deals causes further falls to stock markets, financials, GBP

Sterling drops below $1.2. BoE remain vigilant. Rinse and repeat for $1.1, $1

Italian banking system collapses (with potential massive bail-out, bail-in). This triggers one or more of Deutsche Bank, Credit Swiss, UBS, Barlays to fail. RBS continues as UK state zombie.

Swiss get serious trading restrictions with EU after imposing migration quotas. New swiss model doesn't look so rosy for UK businesses

UK car industry goes into serious decline (800k jobs I read today)

UK financial industry goes into decline

Freedom of movement/migration stats for UK end up largely unchanged

France elects Le Pen on referrendum platform in 2017. UK blamed for starting EU collapse.

Interesting times, indeed.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Quicken

[spunko2010]

Is there a limit to the number of people you can add to your ignore list?

The VIs and moaners on here need a leftist-style purge, it's becoming unreadable.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

My missus is an immigrant too,

Everyone is an immigrant to some extent

[R K]

Operation #Bre-entry has already commenced.

Merkel sitting on her hands waiting.

Boris#/gove/hannan backtracking - admitting Brexit doesnt mean immigration numbers will necc. fall.

Civil Service high command kicking Article 50 into long grass.

Labour kicking out Corbyn

This is the reality of it.

etc etc

[Byron]

Exactly Bloo Loo.

Still don't understand why they want to think this way though.

Normal people think logically, does this perverted way of thinking make a SJW feel superior (and by definition...superiorist)