The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[warpig]

2 hours ago, markyh said:

I seriously don't get it, We told you to buy way under $20k , around $17-$18k ,  you insisted on waiting for a pull back to $14k we said would never come. $20k broke, we told you that's it, it's off never to come back, i told you i had bought $2k's worth for my wife @ $22k Xmas eve. Still fighting us. 

And we were right, no charts needed. Now you want to wait for a possible pullback to $44k.   I just dont understand  how some peoples brains are wired. 

Peeps like @Buffer Bear who get to the party late but take advice for "experts" and buy straight away i understand, but you have been fighting and argueing for gold, BTC to zero, etc etc all through 2020 and four figure BTC. 

Now it's over 1/2 way to six figures you want a position?  

Your problem must be pride? To proud to to think you know best via charts and you must "catch" pullback you know is coming, which most likely wont. 

We had a 30% pullback a few weeks ago from $42k to $29k , which we also told you would happen. Why not buy then? Or had you not yet "seen" that in the charts before hand. 

Good luck, but you are silly not listening to old hands on here, we have been here and done this 3-4 times. History is repeating, 2021 bull cycle (which we also told everyone since 2018 would happen too!) 

...but you weren't necessarily right, you just happened to be right. There's a difference. I've lost plenty of money before investing at the wrong time... and it took way longer than my investment horizon to see a return. I do my best to avoid this and I'll scoop up as much information to make an informed decision before I invest - that's sensible right? When it comes to investing you can be right for the wrong reasons... assume it's going up for x, y, z and then it's only once it declines that you realise your justification for saying the price was going to rise - was wrong, but it went up anyway. A rising market can make the most novice investor look like a successful hedge fund manager. In hindsight there was no real justification for BTC increasing as it has since $20K.... but it did it anyway. All the BTC information on this thread is fundamental analysis... that doesn't necessarily dictate price and that is lacking on this thread. BTC price needs to normalise... it needs to be predictable to some degree, it will help it in the long run. Unpredictable markets dissuade new investors from investing. If it starts adhering to chart patterns, it will draw in other investors... this is good for BTC...

Having said that... and given the publicity it's had of late - I can see it's going much higher in the short term/medium term. It would have been nice to have caught the last wave, but I didn't have confidence in it, I do now.

[stilgar]

4 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I think it’s great you’re all getting rich from killing the planet 👍

 

It seems a crazy waste of energy to me as well but compared to gold mining, not so bad for the environment

https://medium.com/@hillpot/bitcoin-vs-gold-which-hurts-the-environment-more-75193863dfb6

[PeanutButter]

4 minutes ago, markyh said:

I still get piles of bank and credit card statements ever month, junk mail, council mail, pension mail, as do most people. Bitcoin us insn't cutting down any trees, and nearly all mining is done via cheap renewables. 

I repeat, you are promoting a product that has energy wastage as an inherent and purposeful part of the design. Just own it instead of pretending that other things are the same/worse. 

It's like China saying 'Oh but other countries are doing genocides too, ours isn't so bad.' 

As to your last statement. Lol. Now break down for me the exact energy source for all previously mined bitcoins, and the energy source of every transaction now and into the future. It's all renewables yeah? And can I buy some magic beans from you too?

[PeanutButter]

4 minutes ago, stilgar said:

It seems a crazy waste of energy to me as well but compared to gold mining, not so bad for the environment

https://medium.com/@hillpot/bitcoin-vs-gold-which-hurts-the-environment-more-75193863dfb6

Can we compromise and say mining of all kinds is bad for the environment, but bitcoin mining is especially bad because there is no end point where the energy wastage stops? Like, once we have the gold, if I sell you a bar it doesn't use up the equivalent energy as smashing an iphone. 

Since 2009 this has been an issue: https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1153096538?s=20

[markyh]

9 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I repeat, you are promoting a product that has energy wastage as an inherent and purposeful part of the design. Just own it instead of pretending that other things are the same/worse. 

It's like China saying 'Oh but other countries are doing genocides too, ours isn't so bad.' 

As to your last statement. Lol. Now break down for me the exact energy source for all previously mined bitcoins, and the energy source of every transaction now and into the future. It's all renewables yeah? And can I buy some magic beans from you too?

It's simple really, you just don't get it, Energy use  = network security = digital money network effect = network value = fixed limited bitcoin tolken supply / network value =  Bitcoin value ,  Bitcoin price = Bitcoin Value x Demand.  

As demand rises , becasue the supply is fixed, the Bitcoin price rises, which increases transactions and demand for mining, which needs more energy use, gives more security, bigger network effect, bigger network value , this rises demand .................... and on we go. Until Bitcoin eats everything. 

You have or will have soon Bitcoin indirectly in your pension investments, if you like it or not.  Welcome to the club. 

 

[Frugal Git]

38 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Sounds like the average HPCers approach to buying a house.  

😂👍 Fair enough

[Confusion of VIs]

12 hours ago, markyh said:

Disagree. Only by selling the asset now that  is appreciating 200% pa can you do a reset, and that is crazy. Anyway, you would sell 6 months and 1 day after moving to Portugal, as it takes living their 6 months to be declared a tax resident. The next 4 years you have to stay out of the Uk 90% of your time so HMRC can’t class you as still a tax resident of the Uk. 
 

Also, you would not remain in cash in Portugal, sell 100% after 6 months, trigger a  0% CGT bill, buy back 1 month later to create a “reset”.  And the £400k+ Uk CGT bill saving would be kept in cash to fund the 4 year exile, buy a house outright, car, and living costs. No Need to work. 

All this may change before you cash in. Also convincing the HMRC you have genuinely broken your ties with the UK is not the simple black and white process many people think. NB I thought it required a six year exile for GGT.  

Personally, I will be using my and the wife's tax allowances by selling enough to use both allowances and buying back 31 days later while hedging against a rapid rise during this period by putting a similar amount of my ISA money into a Bitcoin proxy.

Bit of a faff but not a bad problem to have seeing as I only bought my first Bitcoins in mid Dec.

 

 

    

[longgone]

39 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Sounds like the average HPCers approach to buying a house.  

savvy investors made 300k investing for 15 years but the house they refused to pay 250k for is now 600k. 

🤣

#winning. 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

25 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Can we compromise and say mining of all kinds is bad for the environment, but bitcoin mining is especially bad because there is no end point where the energy wastage stops? Like, once we have the gold, if I sell you a bar it doesn't use up the equivalent energy as smashing an iphone. 

Since 2009 this has been an issue: https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1153096538?s=20

This article was posted last time you posted this energy usage FUD. You didn’t read it that time and I doubt you’ll read it this time. 

https://www.coindesk.com/the-last-word-on-bitcoins-energy-consumption

 

 

[jiltedjen]

i bet the miners in the states with no electric are raging right now. 

[wighty]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

All this may change before you cash in. Also convincing the HMRC you have genuinely broken your ties with the UK is not the simple black and white process many people think. NB I thought it required a six year exile for GGT.  

Personally, I will be using my and the wife's tax allowances by selling enough to use both allowances and buying back 31 days later while hedging against a rapid rise during this period by putting a similar amount of my ISA money into a Bitcoin proxy.

Bit of a faff but not a bad problem to have seeing as I only bought my first Bitcoins in mid Dec.

 

 

    

You dont need to be exposed by being out of market. Just sell and spouse buys at exactly same time. 30+ days later spouse sells and you buy exactly same time. Assuming you've both enough to cover transactions.

[wighty]

1 hour ago, longgone said:

savvy investors made 300k investing for 15 years but the house they refused to pay 250k for is now 600k. 

🤣

#winning. 

savvy investors hedged their bets.

[longgone]

1 minute ago, wighty said:

savvy investors hedged their bets.

or understand rigged games. 

[wighty]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

All this may change before you cash in. Also convincing the HMRC you have genuinely broken your ties with the UK is not the simple black and white process many people think. NB I thought it required a six year exile for GGT.  

Personally, I will be using my and the wife's tax allowances by selling enough to use both allowances and buying back 31 days later while hedging against a rapid rise during this period by putting a similar amount of my ISA money into a Bitcoin proxy.

Bit of a faff but not a bad problem to have seeing as I only bought my first Bitcoins in mid Dec.

 

 

    

Papers talk of Rishi removing CGT allowances, upping CGT rates. (They've gotta sell papers).  Hopefully this will make him and his mates lose  money so he'll scrap the idea.

[goldbug9999]

2 hours ago, warpig said:

.In hindsight there was no real justification for BTC increasing as it has since $20K.... 

There is way more justification for  it to go from 20k to 50k than from 0 to 20k. There is even more justification for it to go from 50k to 200k+ than to get to 50k. As bitcoins cap increased, so does its legitimacy as an asset class and the scope of the investors it will attract, this what you and other doubters completely fail to grasp.

Everyone who who thinks the higher price makes it more over valued is looking at from entirely the wrong lens.

Quote

If it starts adhering to chart patterns

Nothing adheres to chart patterns, its self delusion. But, feel free to prove me wrong by quickly compounding up to billions and buying your own island, which should be easily possible if just one asset anywhere in any market actually adheres to the chart hocus pocus. I'll wait ...

Edited February 18, 2021 by goldbug9999

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, markyh said:

It's simple really, you just don't get it, Energy use  = network security = digital money network effect = network value = fixed limited bitcoin tolken supply / network value =  Bitcoin value ,  Bitcoin price = Bitcoin Value x Demand.  

As demand rises , becasue the supply is fixed, the Bitcoin price rises, which increases transactions and demand for mining, which needs more energy use, gives more security, bigger network effect, bigger network value , this rises demand .................... and on we go. Until Bitcoin eats everything. 

You have or will have soon Bitcoin indirectly in your pension investments, if you like it or not.  Welcome to the club. 

 

It's simple really, you just don't get it.

Collect underpants.

...?

Profit.

China: one day everyone will have to do a genocide so just accept our Uigher situation now thanks. 

I don't care what justification you all use for investing and promoting (endlessly endlessly endlessly promoting) a product that is designed to waste energy, but pretending it's 'from renewables' is just laughable. Just own up. You do not give a hoot about the environment or the future other than making a profit. Kinda makes landlords look pretty benign  

Oh wait, it even generates sh*t tonnes of actual physical waste too? The gift that keeps giving. Buy now!

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/

The Bitcoin network does not just have an energy problem, but also generates significant quantities of electronic waste (e-waste). The reason for this is that Bitcoin mining is done with specialized (singular purpose) hardware, which becomes obsolete roughly every 1.5 years. This problem was defined for the first time ever in the paper titled “Renewable Energy Will Not Solve Bitcoin’s Sustainability Problem“. The Bitcoin E-waste Monitor was created to provide insight into the amount of e-waste generated by the Bitcoin network.

[goldbug9999]

8 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/

The Bitcoin network does not just have an energy problem, but also generates significant quantities of electronic waste (e-waste). The reason for this is that Bitcoin mining is done with specialized (singular purpose) hardware, which becomes obsolete roughly every 1.5 years. This problem was defined for the first time ever in the paper titled “Renewable Energy Will Not Solve Bitcoin’s Sustainability Problem“. The Bitcoin E-waste Monitor was created to provide insight into the amount of e-waste generated by the Bitcoin network.

I don't give a monkeys toss how much energy bitcoin uses. Its for the market to decide whether energy is better spent on bitcoin than on something else. Bitcoin  meanwhile can exist on as much or as little energy as the market decides to push its way - the difficulty adjustment algorithm takes care of that.

Have fun staying poor.

Edited February 18, 2021 by goldbug9999

[markyh]

4 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

It's simple really, you just don't get it.

Collect underpants.

...?

Profit.

China: one day everyone will have to do a genocide so just accept our Uigher situation now thanks. 

I don't care what justification you all use for investing and promoting (endlessly endlessly endlessly promoting) a product that is designed to waste energy, but pretending it's 'from renewables' is just laughable. Just own up. You do not give a hoot about the environment or the future other than making a profit. Kinda makes landlords look pretty benign  

Oh wait, it even generates sh*t tonnes of actual physical waste too? The gift that keeps giving. Buy now!

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-electronic-waste-monitor/

The Bitcoin network does not just have an energy problem, but also generates significant quantities of electronic waste (e-waste). The reason for this is that Bitcoin mining is done with specialized (singular purpose) hardware, which becomes obsolete roughly every 1.5 years. This problem was defined for the first time ever in the paper titled “Renewable Energy Will Not Solve Bitcoin’s Sustainability Problem“. The Bitcoin E-waste Monitor was created to provide insight into the amount of e-waste generated by the Bitcoin network.

Our house has at least six old iphones and sony smartphones hanging around in drawers. All were obsolete within 2 years due to knackered batteries and not worth resale value after 2 years to replace the battery, so although all work, they are all economically obsolete. 

Billions around the 1st world with the same issue. And your point is? 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

20 minutes ago, markyh said:

Our house has at least six old iphones and sony smartphones hanging around in drawers. All were obsolete within 2 years due to knackered batteries and not worth resale value after 2 years to replace the battery, so although all work, they are all economically obsolete. 

Billions around the 1st world with the same issue. And your point is? 

Didn't you know? Only @PeanutButter gets to decide what is a good use of energy.

 

[Huggy]

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I like how you attack the man, not the argument. 🤑

Is that because you don't have one?

I think attack is quite a strong word here. I'd say I'm more ribbing him from afar in a forum that he will not see nor care about.

With regards to the climates. Me simply being alive, driving a car, eating meat, using electricity to play with shiny electronic toys etc, are all destroying the planet. Bitcoin, ironically, could increase my consumption of all of that if it got to high enough profitzz$. I won't go out of my way to get the most polluting yacht I can, but I need a boat with the performance and size that befits a man with the incredibly large wallet I aim to own in a few years time.

Thankfully, Dr Robert Rohde and millions of others who didn't hodl might find themselves lacking cars, boats, holidays, meat (except maybe some insect protein on 'Treat Sunday') and electricity. The creation of "The Citadel" (I do like that story) might even make the planet greener than it is now, all because of Bitcoin, and that's only going to benefit us all

[Jonesy74]

7 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I think it’s great you’re all getting rich from killing the planet 👍

 

 

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I repeat, you are promoting a product that has energy wastage as an inherent and purposeful part of the design. Just own it instead of pretending that other things are the same/worse. 

It's like China saying 'Oh but other countries are doing genocides too, ours isn't so bad.' 

As to your last statement. Lol. Now break down for me the exact energy source for all previously mined bitcoins, and the energy source of every transaction now and into the future. It's all renewables yeah? And can I buy some magic beans from you too?

Bitcoins energy use is for a perfectly good reason - monetary security.

I think that’s more important than people going on holiday to Spain, so let’s ban holiday travel before banning bitcoin, if it’s all about the environment.

But regardless, the human species is going to use more and more energy per person. We improve our quality of life with all these new uses for energy. Yes we need to replace our consumption with renewable and environmentally friendly energy sources to facilitate this increase, but we shouldn’t arbitrarily decide that one use of energy is wrong compared to another

[RodCrosby]

These morons would have us sitting naked in caves if they could have their way.

[Mixle]

How much energy is used to ship people to and from the Olympic Games? Maybe they should cancel the Olympics. Oh wait, they have 🤔 but that was for a different reason 🤗

Edit: also, funny fact, olympic gold medals are gold plated but made of silver, because gold price is too damn high

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mixle

[RodCrosby]

51 minutes ago, Huggy said:

I won't go out of my way to get the most polluting yacht I can, but I need a boat with the performance and size that befits a man with the incredibly large wallet I aim to own in a few years time.

Have you looked at "yacht fractions"? I'm tempted.

For about £5k-£50k buy-in, plus say £150 a month towards a maintenance fund you get 6-8 weeks a year afloat, with none of the hassle of sole ownership. Some nice craft available around the Med/Adriatic in long-established syndicates.

Edited February 18, 2021 by RodCrosby

[Huggy]

11 minutes ago, RodCrosby said:

Have you looked at "yacht fractions"? I'm tempted.

That's looks a little like a timeshare, so I'm not sure about that. Never done the boating before so will probably rent a couple of times just to make sure I wasn't just attracted to the idea of it. Or I'll keep working and go to the Med by plane if BTC doesn't go the way I need it to.