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Quite possibly!

China's version of Google has apparently started accepting bitcoin and caused the latest spike.

And even the closure of Silk Road hasn't affected it.

$1,800 this time next year if the trend continues.

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Quite possibly!

China's version of Google has apparently started accepting bitcoin and caused the latest spike.

And even the closure of Silk Road hasn't affected it.

$1,800 this time next year if the trend continues.

What was it at the time of the Silk Road arrests? I thought that those arrests would have helped kill it off - obviously not.

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What was it at the time of the Silk Road arrests? I thought that those arrests would have helped kill it off - obviously not.

You would have thought so but then stories like the following made the rounds and everyone seems to be leaving little message for the Feds :D

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/168139-fbi-unable-to-seize-600000-bitcoins-from-silk-road-operator

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What was it at the time of the Silk Road arrests? I thought that those arrests would have helped kill it off - obviously not.

I guess the old maxim "If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger" applies.

Bitcoin is actually starting to look like a serious contender for a universal means of exchange. I'd expect some sort of government action to crush it, soon. Can't have people bypassing state-issued promises.

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BTC is the best investment I've ever made. Not that I've crystallised the gain :-( And it was only a few quid (now a few thousand!)

I've carried a few on my phone for ages in the hope of finding somewhere to spend them. Now worried that my phone is a bit too valuable!

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Quite possibly!

China's version of Google has apparently started accepting bitcoin and caused the latest spike.

And even the closure of Silk Road hasn't affected it.

$1,800 this time next year if the trend continues.

To be fair, the price fell about 30% on the silk road news, but then quickly rebounded. Since then the Chinese have been buying heavily.

Post silk road they were about $90 for a few hours and now they are about $190 a couple of weeks later. That is pretty nuts, but the market is still tiny and big money moves it very easily.

When the market cap hits $100bn to $1tr, I suspect it will start to stabilize, much like gold has (mostly). If people start to then price/contract in btc, the price relative to other currencies becomes less important too.

Best investment for me too. I nearly trippled my house deposit before buying the other year (got a good deal in NI). Now they are just long term savings.

I am glad we bought the house when we did, but those 650 btc I bought cheaply would have been worth a small fortune now. Ah well, the timing was about a year off unfortunately!

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BTC is the best investment I've ever made. Not that I've crystallised the gain :-( And it was only a few quid (now a few thousand!)

I've carried a few on my phone for ages in the hope of finding somewhere to spend them. Now worried that my phone is a bit too valuable!

Ha! I know what you mean! I used to keep 10 btc on my phone, just to show friends what bitcoins were - they were worth about £75 at the time, now about £1250! :ph34r:

Needless to say, I don't keep that much on my phone now! :lol:

It's funny to think I mined 100 btc on a laptop a few years ago. I could have mined 1000s, but I just thought I'd mine a few in case they took off and then stopped bothering. I don't even have 100 btc in total now! It's pretty crazy, but I think this is still just the beginning! :blink:

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You would have thought so but then stories like the following made the rounds and everyone seems to be leaving little message for the Feds :D

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/168139-fbi-unable-to-seize-600000-bitcoins-from-silk-road-operator

The only way to move Bitcoins out of a private wallet is to have the corresponding private key to authorize the transaction. The FBI has been unable to get through the encryption protecting Ulbricht’s wallet, leaving all those Bitcoins — amounting to roughly $80 million at current rates — out of reach. Based on publicly available data, this is about 5% of all Bitcoins in existence right now.

:lol:

I bet they really hate this. The state is so used to seizing any damn thing it wants, that it must be a bit of a reality check!

Edited by Traktion

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:lol:

I bet they really hate this. The state is so used to seizing any damn thing it wants, that it must be a bit of a reality check!

Do you think this has added to the increase?

5% of BTC’s could be out of the loop forever… ? makes the rest of them that little bit more appealing?

I wish I had jumped in earlier. I have about 10% of my savings in BTC now, but that doesn’t amount to much at all!

However, I support BTC and the mind-set behind it. it’s the alternative to inflationary monopoly money banksters print at will and should be supported by everyone at HPC.

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Do you think this has added to the increase?

5% of BTC’s could be out of the loop forever… ? makes the rest of them that little bit more appealing?

I wish I had jumped in earlier. I have about 10% of my savings in BTC now, but that doesn’t amount to much at all!

However, I support BTC and the mind-set behind it. it’s the alternative to inflationary monopoly money banksters print at will and should be supported by everyone at HPC.

I've not monitored the wallet to see whether many transactions were made from it previously, but I suspect they weren't being circulated much anyway. It sounds like it was his savings.

That said, it has demonstrated how difficult it is for the state to seize/steal wealth from people. This has real value for people who fear the actions of desperate governments, as the financial system starts to unravel. The US government have confiscated gold in the past and there is always the risk of someone finding it - in comparison, a brain wallet doesn't [EDIT: the private key] even exist outside of someone's thoughts.

The more it becomes difficult for the state to just take what they want, the less the 'stick' will work and the more the 'carrot' will be required. Speaking more broadly, the stick that is called 'taxation' may become harder to use and voluntary subscription (carrot) to key services may become more common place (and cost effective).

Ofc, they may choose to tax the hell out of land usage - perhaps it will even drive governments towards a LVT (land value tax) as the most cost effective way to fund themselves? I suspect it will be a mixture of more subscription services and land taxation, personally.

As for the banksters, I very much agree. Their cosy relationship with the state will also be stretched. I think there will continue to be a role for banks to provide loans/credit, but securing money will likely become less useful to customers. When you can have a cold storage wallet, which you can monitor usage on and/or secure personally (or at least, not at a bank as we know them), why use a bank for savings?

Taking savings away from banks is critical. It illustrates the contractual difference between you owning the money on deposit and them owning it. The latter is currently the case, but in a Bitcoin based system it is the former. This has profound implications and would make fractional reserve (and derivatives) style banking largely impossible - only investors who understood the risks would give them their money, I suspect.

Edited by Traktion

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It's a crazy ride again. To be quite honest no one has a clue whether this is the new price, the start of a major bubble, or a minor and brief bubble. Since the Chinese are buying heavily I would hazard a guess we're at the start of a major bubble which will see a new base price close to $200 but which could peak at 300 or more.

We're still at the early news stage but if bitcoin breaks its previous high of $266 then a lot more will follow and the cycle will begin and a fall will follow a big bump in price.

FBI: they control some coins apparently but that 5% figure is estimated and doesn't take into account what has been spent, so it's likely rather lower than that. It's important to remember that the coins were worth vastly less at the time they were received and were used for running costs and anything else potentially

Wish I'd bought in a lot earlier but people buying now are still early adopters so no one has missed the boat yet.

Putting a few % of savings into Bitcoin is probably sensible now. There is a reasonable chance of a 5x return over a relatively short time, maybe a lot more, but also a chance you'll lose most of it.

For those who doubt on the basis that this all has to collapse because it sounds too good to be true, what you're seeing is the first of a new breed of currency/commodity going through an expansion phase. It isn't too good to be true because no one has a clue if it will work and because in order for it to be successful then periods of rapid expansion are absolutely to be expected.

It's a grand and quite glorious experiment that may be studied by economists for years afterwards.

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What happened about bitcoins when the system was hacked.?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jun/22/bitcoins-how-do-they-work

How come faith wasn`t lost?

The Bitcoin protocol is rock solid and has never been hacked. The only attack vector is breaking the underlying cryptography but in that scenario Bitcoin being FUBARED would be the least of our problems.

When you read "BITCOIN GOT HACKED" the story is always about a third party service that ran a website or exchange getting hacked.

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The Bitcoin protocol is rock solid and has never been hacked. The only attack vector is breaking the underlying cryptography but in that scenario Bitcoin being FUBARED would be the least of our problems.

When you read "BITCOIN GOT HACKED" the story is always about a third party service that ran a website or exchange getting hacked.

So can bitcoins be bought without using exchanges?

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Personnal I wouldn't put too much faith into bit coins. They are only ever going to be as good as their security and although the security protocols are currently very good nobody knows what will happen in future, will a competing online currency become more popular or will someone create a program that can break the protocol?

Fundamentally there is still nothing backing bit coins and although there is a top limit of bit coins can be produced there is no limit to how many fractions a bit coin could be split into. The other major problem with bit coins becoming a viable currency is the fact that they keep appreciating rapidly, leading to people hoarding them and not spending them, creating a classical deflationary situation.

Still would have minded picking up a few when they were still $20! But again that merely demonstrates that they are acting more like a speculative investment, much like spread betting on an indice!

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They are only ever going to be as good as their security and although the security protocols are currently very good nobody knows what will happen in future,

If public key crypto fails then so does banking and the internet. Loss of BTC will be the last of people's worries!

Fundamentally there is still nothing backing bit coins and although there is a top limit of bit coins can be produced there is no limit to how many fractions a bit coin could be split into. The other major problem with bit coins becoming a viable currency is the fact that they keep appreciating rapidly, leading to people hoarding them and not spending them, creating a classical deflationary situation.

Nothing backing gold either but people seem to value it rather highly.

You're right about the built-in deflation though.

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Actually the price is based on a number of things and Bitcoin itself, as a protocol, has significant value. It provides for an incredibly secure system of trustless contracts and token ownership/transfer. That's easily missed in amongst all the libertarian, bubble, drug or other trash talk.

Chances of someone breaking the core protocol at this point are tiny but even if they did it can be fixed virtually overnight, and transactions locked out. Same goes for if a major crypto flaw was found, but Bitcoin uses a number of them in combination for extra security and all your banking and gov security relies on these anyway.

Biggest issue is that systems and software are not secure enough or easy to use enough - that's where hacks occur and will continue to do so for some time.

People also misunderstand the price volatility and built in deflation. In reality, this is a medium term issue rather than a long one. Most coins will have been minted within 8 years or so and it'll take this amount of time for Bitcoin to mature and be accepted anyway. The price will still move about but as long as there is increasing liquidity it won't be anywhere near as much as we'll see for some time yet.

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So can bitcoins be bought without using exchanges?

The last big crash in btc price was chiefly because of the almost total monopoly of the MtGox exchange on which to trade them. The exchange overheated and was hit by an order backlog and people panicked and dumped their coins. Now it is vastly different, and you can locally buy and sell btc in 3316 cities and 190 countries, and this is fast becoming the best and busiest form of exchange. A truly person -to-person distributed exchange that matches the distributed nature of bitcoins. No single point of failure. This should make it more resilient.

https://localbitcoins.com/

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If public key crypto fails then so does banking and the internet. Loss of BTC will be the last of people's worries!

Nothing backing gold either but people seem to value it rather highly.

You're right about the built-in deflation though.

That's only a problem if you have a pile of credit to repay.

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Ha! I know what you mean! I used to keep 10 btc on my phone, just to show friends what bitcoins were - they were worth about £75 at the time, now about £1250! :ph34r:

Needless to say, I don't keep that much on my phone now! :lol:

It's funny to think I mined 100 btc on a laptop a few years ago. I could have mined 1000s, but I just thought I'd mine a few in case they took off and then stopped bothering. I don't even have 100 btc in total now! It's pretty crazy, but I think this is still just the beginning! :blink:

Since April I have managed to mine several Litecoins and converted them in 4 BTC, Am hold though and not selling as they are worth £500. Graphics card cost £280 and spent about an extra £100 in electricity. So a net gain a free GFX upgrade. I have halted now as the difficulty to mine vs value of LTC and BTC are both below the cost of electricity on a AMD HD7950.

Slowly getting closer to the front of the queue for 3 x BFL 5GH ASIC BTC miners that cost a total of £900 back in late April. Looks like due to lateness any ROI was long gone but with the BTC price now catching up with difficulty rises again these should pull a profit eventually over the next 2-3 years.

M

Edited by markyh

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