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Fractional ownership, just like many people already do with light aircraft.

You have a legal share of the boat, and can swap weeks with others in the syndicate.

Once lockdown is over, I'm getting my DaySkipper or whatever it's called. So I'm good to go boating when I'm ready to escape with my loot !

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Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see fami

They could certainly put various things in place to try and stop but I just don't seem them doing it. Obviously they could make dealing, trading, holding or using bitcoin punishable with 10 years

Bitcoin Cash can and will scale on chain. The technology advance within the next decade will allow it to happen with ease and always remain ahead of demand. What Core have done to Bitcoin is criminal

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1 hour ago, wighty said:

You dont need to be exposed by being out of market. Just sell and spouse buys at exactly same time. 30+ days later spouse sells and you buy exactly same time. Assuming you've both enough to cover transactions.

Very risky as you may have to convince the HMRC it was a "genuine outright gift". If you get investigated it would be pretty obvious that a mutual swap was not.

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1 hour ago, wighty said:

Papers talk of Rishi removing CGT allowances, upping CGT rates. (They've gotta sell papers).  Hopefully this will make him and his mates lose  money so he'll scrap the idea.

The risk of CGT taxes being aligned with income tax is why I am doing as much as possible to reduce my potential liability. I don't mind paying 20% tax but the risk of it becoming 45% makes it worth jumping through a few avoidance hoops.

 

Edited by Confusion of VIs
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10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Very risky as you may have to convince the HMRC it was a "genuine outright gift". If you get investigated it would be pretty obvious that a mutual swap was not.

"Bed and Spouse" is legitimate, except perhaps where it is designed to create an intentional loss.

Women, even married ones, are free agents now, so we're told.

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2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

There is way more justification for  it to go from 20k to 50k than from 0 to 20k. There is even more justification for it to go from 50k to 200k+ than to get to 50k. As bitcoins cap increased, so does its legitimacy as an asset class and the scope of the investors it will attract, this what you and other doubters completely fail to grasp.

Everyone who who thinks the higher price makes it more over valued is looking at from entirely the wrong lens.

Nothing adheres to chart patterns, its self delusion. But, feel free to prove me wrong by quickly compounding up to billions and buying your own island, which should be easily possible if just one asset anywhere in any market actually adheres to the chart hocus pocus. I'll wait ...

You could make the same argument for ANY asset class... but nothing moves like BTC has... and if your logic held true, the price should be a more predictable linear line or gentle parabolic curve... not these HUGE spikes. So your logic only appears to be true for part of the price curve which means it's probably not true. The reality is capital is fleeing other assets, BTC is in a mania phase, BTC is considerably less regulated than other markets, the BTC market is illiquid compared to other markets, BTC is very insular... I could go on. I do agree that higher prices will attract more investors... this is basis for herd mentality.

I'll agree nothing adheres to chart all the time, but in order to establish itself as an investment class, it will need to at some point... if the channel in my chart holds true, maybe it's already begun. At the moment it's stuck around the $52K mark... maybe it will break through and form a new steeper channel... we'll have to wait and see.

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3 hours ago, RodCrosby said:

"Bed and Spouse" is legitimate, except perhaps where it is designed to create an intentional loss.

Women, even married ones, are free agents now, so we're told.

It can be legitimate but not when it is clearly a mutual swap. I would like to see your workings on how to convince the HMRC that this was a genuine transaction and not one whose only purpose was to reset your CGT base. 

There is also the issue that it cannot be done directly so you have to incur the costs of selling and rebuying, for me this makes investing via an ISA Bitcoin proxy more attractive. 

It is inevitable that tax rules are going to be tightened up across the board over the next few years, as the government goes hunting for revenue to pay for Covid and Brexit.

If BC does go to the moon as far as the HMRC is concerned we will all be geese ripe for plucking. I want to minimise my liability without making use of "loopholes" that could be retrospectively removed or are likely to provoke an investigation. 

Edited by Confusion of VIs
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2 hours ago, dannyf said:

 

Bitcoins energy use is for a perfectly good reason - monetary security.

I think that’s more important than people going on holiday to Spain, so let’s ban holiday travel before banning bitcoin, if it’s all about the environment.

But regardless, the human species is going to use more and more energy per person. We improve our quality of life with all these new uses for energy. Yes we need to replace our consumption with renewable and environmentally friendly energy sources to facilitate this increase, but we shouldn’t arbitrarily decide that one use of energy is wrong compared to another

Oh banning is it? Why not ban both? :D 

Or can bitcoin maniacs just be honest with themselves and the rest of us for once and admit that owning (and promoting, always endlessly promoting) bitcoin is more important to them than any damage it causes. Kind of like slave ownership...

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45 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Reminds me of some on here.

 

The poorest man on the ship is at least on the ship. There's not just deck swabbing either, toilets need cleaning, showers defluffing, and drinks serving. He'll be fine.

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First North American Bitcoin ETF launched today. I will not be buying it for reasons no one here would understand (faith based), but I can see BTC going to 2,3,400k or more if big investment funds, corporations, and pension investors start piling in. I also think it has the potential to bring everything else down with it if panic selling ever sets in once it reaches those highs.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2021/02/18/2177751/0/en/Purpose-Investments-Launches-World-s-First-Bitcoin-ETF-Invested-Directly-in-the-Digital-Asset.html

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I am hearing rumblings in some US jurisdictions of taxing unrealised gains and exit taxes for people trying to leave the country. California I think. I can easily see how Bitcoin gains will be a very soft target, and if this comes off even the hodlers or whatever they are, will get squeezed and be forced to sell to pay the tax man.

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2 hours ago, warpig said:

You could make the same argument for ANY asset class... but nothing moves like BTC has... and if your logic held true, the price should be a more predictable linear line or gentle parabolic curve... not these HUGE spikes. So your logic only appears to be true for part of the price curve which means it's probably not true. The reality is capital is fleeing other assets, BTC is in a mania phase, BTC is considerably less regulated than other markets, the BTC market is illiquid compared to other markets, BTC is very insular... I could go on. I do agree that higher prices will attract more investors... this is basis for herd mentality.

I'll agree nothing adheres to chart all the time, but in order to establish itself as an investment class, it will need to at some point... if the channel in my chart holds true, maybe it's already begun. At the moment it's stuck around the $52K mark... maybe it will break through and form a new steeper channel... we'll have to wait and see.

This is not financial advice, this is life advice. Just take some f**king risk. You could have just bought £500 rather than 5k, and tested your theories in a practical manner.

Edited by Frugal Git
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13 minutes ago, Frugal Git said:

This is not financial advice, this is life advice. Just take some f**king risk. You could have just bought £500 rather than 5k, and tested your theories in a practical manner.

I can test my theories without taking the risk... 

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3 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Reminds me of some on here.

 

Sold at $11k last year and was waitng for the "dip" to buy back, I bet this was the CME futures gap at $9600 that never closed.  $52k, still waiting.  I guess he "saw" something in the charts".  😆

#Tradingisformugs.  #HODLLIFE. 

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40 minutes ago, HovelinHove said:

I am hearing rumblings in some US jurisdictions of taxing unrealised gains and exit taxes for people trying to leave the country. California I think. I can easily see how Bitcoin gains will be a very soft target, and if this comes off even the hodlers or whatever they are, will get squeezed and be forced to sell to pay the tax man.

I wish then luck. When you cam leave the country with either a USB hardwallet in your pocket or 24 words memorised in your mind, capitial controls are useless. As for taxing unrealised gainz? Bitcoin is pseudo anonymous, how they hell can they tax what they cant find. 

Do you own bitcoin. 

"No".  (****** you Taxman)

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25 minutes ago, Londonkid said:

Sounds like you have ROMO (regret of missing out) like alot of the journalists I see writing about bitcoin. 

No... of course I wish I had trebled my money in BTC... but it's not the last opportunity out there. My silver miners will return thousands of percent returns when they go... I made about £40K on Brexit... my gold and silver were all bought at 2007/8 knock down prices.  BTC is just another investment... and it's not over yet.

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Quote

You could make the same argument for ANY asset class.

No you cant because all the others are already established. This isnt like a-n-other stock or anything else its an entirely new form of money.
 

Quote

 

if your logic held true, the price should be a more predictable linear line or gentle parabolic curve... not these HUGE spikes

 

It cannot be predictable or smooth because the positive feedback leads to volatility. \even Gold and Silver dont follow smooth curves, its really not possible for something who value lies in scarcity to do so.

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27 minutes ago, Londonkid said:

Made me lol. Wife isn't that Bad. I had lots of crap running mining rigs in my study mancave in 2013/14 for nearly 2 years, telling the wife my small Bitcoin/ litecoin / Crypto stash would make us wealthy and clear a mortgage. bigger house one day. As it cost her nothing and she still had her £3k-£5k annual summer hols she didn't moan as such. Plus i got her pregant in 2013 and after not feeling right in Egypt in summer 2013 we found out on return we were having kid no 2 out of the blue after 5 years of trying, who has just had 7th birthday, came along in Feb 2014, so she was "mummy again" distracted. 

2017 was an eye opener for her when i told her mid 2017 it was all now worth £40k, and by Xmas £100k.  She was happy then and didn't really say to much when it dropped to £18k by late 2018. I told here i was buying more "in the dip". Again, fine it's your money. 

Then i bought her £2k BTC in at Xmas eve, now worth £4.3k, and my stash worth over £280k, and me saying should be able to sell 1/2 and be mortgage free by Xmas, still have enough left to be rich by 2025/2029.  So now i'm a foooking genius in her eyes and all our nocoiner friends and neighbours who know i invested in Bitcoin, and got a shock in 2017, then mocked in 2018/19 are now probably sitting in lockdown doing mental maths and saying, bugger me the MarkyH's must be loaded now BTC is over £50k, and we own none! 

Yesterday she was talking about if it gets high enough she may give up work ( a £50k p/a job!!), to which i replied, Then how will you pay for the bills and stuff. With out money from Bitcoin she says. I say, Really, you have a secret stash also worth nearly £300k too? No she replies, we have "Your Bitcoin". 

Yes i reply, and when you find and investment and put money into it and generate a £270k return in 7 years, you can then use that money to give up work. Until then. sorry you keep working or i walk with all "my money". 

She took the hint!  But i will probably crack if my second 50% gets me to £1m+ in the next 4-8 years. I told her if she wants her £200k extention she needs to work to pay for it, but we can start planning it in 2022 for build in 2024/25, or sooner depending what happens to Bitcoins 4 year cycle now. 

She seems happy with that and she knows first chance i get i'm buying us a Tesla Model Y performance as a treat.  

I also reminded her i'm not giving up work and once covid is over and its 90% normal i'm spend 2-3 years really going for it with my own business, mortgage free, before easing off to semi retirement at 55. 

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22 hours ago, markyh said:

Yes. Less for sale, increasing demand. Price rises. 

👍

22 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Yes remember in this cycle that only 901.44 fresh Bitcoins are minted each day. With institutions in a mad scramble to play catch up with the cypherpunks and retail who front ran them, we are witnessing a liquidity crisis. i.e They are not printing enough Bitcoins. Think this is crazy just wait until hyperbitcoinization. It’s coming. 

👍

12 hours ago, markyh said:

 

Peeps like @Buffer Bear who get to the party late but take advice for "experts" and buy straight away i understand, but you have been fighting and argueing for gold, BTC to zero, etc etc all through 2020 and four figure BTC. 

 

Correct.  I can honestly say that if @markyhand @MonsieurCopperCrutchhad not been so generous with their time, at the crucial point, when I asked how to get started, I don't honestly think I would have made the move.  Once I had the basics, I was motivated to purchase pretty much immediately and, thereafter, I read as much as I could both on here and more widely, especially stuff that rebuffs the no-coiners arguments.  I 'research' everyday now as I find it really enjoyable but am trying not to remain in the echo-chamber of Saylor, Pal, (Held, Pomp, PP, Plan B etc) although I love their contributions.  Saylor is my favourite.  I find him a bit of an enigma.

12 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Yeah and he had the gall to scoff at my DCA + HODL = FTW advice that I was imparting from my experience to others like @Buffer Bear. If Bitcoin doesn't conform to his normal tea-leaf charting then he was not interested. Now he's put aside £5K to enter at $50K. You couldn't make this stuff up. 😂

If you squint your eyes closely you can see him in the rigth image at the back of this queue:

Eudl7UHXAAIRUQF?format=jpg&name=medium

You sure were @MonsieurCopperCrutch and whilst I made my main investments in Dec/January, I have been adding when I can including today which was not far off what @warpigis sitting on awaiting a fall.  Personally, I do not see the point of such as strategy nor do I have time to watch the market, particularly during day time hours.  If it falls, I will definitely find another lump sum to add. @warpigWhat would it take to jump in now?

12 hours ago, wighty said:

Classic mistake with all investors, not just bitcoin. 

Wait for pullback, when it happens thinking is it'll pullback further so will wait longer. Result is the recent bottom is missed and the investment goes up.

Repeat the process.

I understand this but given the movement since December, you'd think this would provide @Warpig with the evidence needed.

10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Sounds like the average HPCers approach to buying a house.  

Yeah, sounds like me! 🤣

10 hours ago, warpig said:

...but you weren't necessarily right, you just happened to be right. There's a difference. I've lost plenty of money before investing at the wrong time... and it took way longer than my investment horizon to see a return. I do my best to avoid this and I'll scoop up as much information to make an informed decision before I invest - that's sensible right? When it comes to investing you can be right for the wrong reasons... assume it's going up for x, y, z and then it's only once it declines that you realise your justification for saying the price was going to rise - was wrong, but it went up anyway. A rising market can make the most novice investor look like a successful hedge fund manager. In hindsight there was no real justification for BTC increasing as it has since $20K.... but it did it anyway. All the BTC information on this thread is fundamental analysis... that doesn't necessarily dictate price and that is lacking on this thread. BTC price needs to normalise... it needs to be predictable to some degree, it will help it in the long run. Unpredictable markets dissuade new investors from investing. If it starts adhering to chart patterns, it will draw in other investors... this is good for BTC...

Having said that... and given the publicity it's had of late - I can see it's going much higher in the short term/medium term. It would have been nice to have caught the last wave, but I didn't have confidence in it, I do now.

I was feeling supportive of your perspective...

9 hours ago, markyh said:

It's simple really, you just don't get it, Energy use  = network security = digital money network effect = network value = fixed limited bitcoin tolken supply / network value =  Bitcoin value ,  Bitcoin price = Bitcoin Value x Demand.  

As demand rises , becasue the supply is fixed, the Bitcoin price rises, which increases transactions and demand for mining, which needs more energy use, gives more security, bigger network effect, bigger network value , this rises demand .................... and on we go. Until Bitcoin eats everything. 

 

 

I now decree that this becomes the standard description of Bitcoin.  Pal and Saylor, eat your heart out.  

9 hours ago, longgone said:

savvy investors made 300k investing for 15 years but the house they refused to pay 250k for is now 600k. 

🤣

#winning. 

#losing

2 hours ago, warpig said:

I can test my theories without taking the risk... 

Until I read this! So you're sitting on profits but they're not real as you didn't invest the money.  Are you flipping' serious?! 🙄

2 hours ago, Londonkid said:

A great thread.  🤣  We're bordering on the reversal of this situation in my house i.e. I get the look if I even so much as mention BTC. Fine by me... :) 

Edited by Buffer Bear
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1 hour ago, goldbug9999 said:

 

No you cant because all the others are already established. This isnt like a-n-other stock or anything else its an entirely new form of money.
 

It cannot be predictable or smooth because the positive feedback leads to volatility. \even Gold and Silver dont follow smooth curves, its really not possible for something who value lies in scarcity to do so.

@warpig, dyor, even I know this! 🙄:)

1 hour ago, markyh said:

Made me lol. Wife isn't that Bad. I had lots of crap running mining rigs in my study mancave in 2013/14 for nearly 2 years, telling the wife my small Bitcoin/ litecoin / Crypto stash would make us wealthy and clear a mortgage. bigger house one day. As it cost her nothing and she still had her £3k-£5k annual summer hols she didn't moan as such. Plus i got her pregant in 2013 and after not feeling right in Egypt in summer 2013 we found out on return we were having kid no 2 out of the blue after 5 years of trying, who has just had 7th birthday, came along in Feb 2014, so she was "mummy again" distracted. 

2017 was an eye opener for her when i told her mid 2017 it was all now worth £40k, and by Xmas £100k.  She was happy then and didn't really say to much when it dropped to £18k by late 2018. I told here i was buying more "in the dip". Again, fine it's your money. 

Then i bought her £2k BTC in at Xmas eve, now worth £4.3k, and my stash worth over £280k, and me saying should be able to sell 1/2 and be mortgage free by Xmas, still have enough left to be rich by 2025/2029.  So now i'm a foooking genius in her eyes and all our nocoiner friends and neighbours who know i invested in Bitcoin, and got a shock in 2017, then mocked in 2018/19 are now probably sitting in lockdown doing mental maths and saying, bugger me the MarkyH's must be loaded now BTC is over £50k, and we own none! 

Yesterday she was talking about if it gets high enough she may give up work ( a £50k p/a job!!), to which i replied, Then how will you pay for the bills and stuff. With out money from Bitcoin she says. I say, Really, you have a secret stash also worth nearly £300k too? No she replies, we have "Your Bitcoin". 

Yes i reply, and when you find and investment and put money into it and generate a £270k return in 7 years, you can then use that money to give up work. Until then. sorry you keep working or i walk with all "my money". 

She took the hint!  But i will probably crack if my second 50% gets me to £1m+ in the next 4-8 years. I told her if she wants her £200k extention she needs to work to pay for it, but we can start planning it in 2022 for build in 2024/25, or sooner depending what happens to Bitcoins 4 year cycle now. 

She seems happy with that and she knows first chance i get i'm buying us a Tesla Model Y performance as a treat.  

I also reminded her i'm not giving up work and once covid is over and its 90% normal i'm spend 2-3 years really going for it with my own business, mortgage free, before easing off to semi retirement at 55. 

@markyh Sounds like fun in your house and the children are blessing!  😂 But give up work, no way! I think your response is justified, (other than you'll walk away with your money! 😳🤔😂- I'd walk away if my husband dare say similar to me! 😀) as it would simply undermine your longer-term plans.  You're wife is right to think you're a genius, you're on the way to setting up your family for life.  Can't beat that.

I discuss most things (99%) with my better half but not all financial matters (only our stuff) as it would mean revealing information inadvertently that is confidential to my family, which wouldn't be fair.  He trusts me implicitly (and thinks I'm great with money) as he should so we're fine and I hope he will be very happy if 'my'/our investment works out.  He is a man of few words and doesn't need much to be content nor does he think I'm having an affair @MonsieurCopperCrutchas I now spend even more time online, which he didn't think was possible.

As for friends who mock, as the saying goes, what goes around comes around.  Leave them to it.  They're not genuine friends.   I look forward to an update regarding their response when you cash out at 50%!

Edited by Buffer Bear
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3 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Oh banning is it? Why not ban both? :D 

Or can bitcoin maniacs just be honest with themselves and the rest of us for once and admit that owning (and promoting, always endlessly promoting) bitcoin is more important to them than any damage it causes. Kind of like slave ownership...

Maybe you can be honest with us. The only energy use you salty no coiners are bothered about is bitcoins, because you want to somehow be right that bitcoin is bad, to justify having missed out. I bet you have never once complained about the energy use of anything else.

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