kzb Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: It is not possible to do it early enough as t,hat would require doing it before anyone knows there is a problem. Once a potentially pandemic virus is established travel restrictions at practical levels have little/no impact on the numbers that will be infected, as a single case getting through is enough to restart the spread. Last week I saw a report that that even with the assumption that international travel was restricted by an impossible 99.99% the maximum global spread was only delayed by a couple of months. So that means nothing at all can be done. On the other hand, if people had been stopped from going on Italian skiing trips there would be far fewer UK cases now. That report anyway is about global spread. I am talking about Britain. It stands to reason if you have very few carriers coming in, it is easier to contain them and their contacts. Your report also seems contradicted by the WHO report, linked to in Peter Hun's post above and also been available for several days on that Worldometers site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 9 hours ago, longgone said: if it brings house prices down sounds good to me. I understand the place ur coming from, ur speaking to a fella who had to live in Eastern Europe for 10 years cos I couldn't afford one.. Shame we came have the crash without full societal breakdown... Also what would the house prices be with after anyway. Would be better to invest in a plot of land, a bit of running water and a tent or caravan Which to be honest, just sounds great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simhadri Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mallish said: how can you actually go through life with your attitude to people? No one has the choice of deciding who lives - their partner or their child no one wants to see their family suffer whatever age they are are you saying that your own parents like to see you suffer then/ Is that what drives your vitriol? No person is worth more or less than any other and my boomer parents are certainly not worth less than you as they have a far more positive attitude to life and all people whatever age they may be My wife is a surgeon ion the NHS and i find these ridiculous suggestion that some people are treated better than others to be disgusting and ignorant beyond belief Also I am 29 I have good housing - so do my friends I do not go through life playing the victim and pretending that the world hates me You're right but some people just want the boomers to vanish. Thats the level of hatred these so called MODERN, EDUCATED, LIBERALS have. Blaming boomers for everything is a routine job for some guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: It is not possible to do it early enough as t,hat would require doing it before anyone knows there is a problem. Once a potentially pandemic virus is established travel restrictions at practical levels have little/no impact on the numbers that will be infected, as a single case getting through is enough to restart the spread. Last week I saw a report that that even with the assumption that international travel was restricted by an impossible 99.99% the maximum global spread was only delayed by a couple of months. ********. Containment works! New infections recorded in China ex. Wuhan dropped to 5 today. They're already closing down the makeshift hospitals. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/wuhan-closes-makeshift-hospital-as-new-coronavirus-cases-in-china-drop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simhadri Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, zugzwang said: ********. Containment works! New infections recorded in China ex. Wuhan dropped to 5 today. If our UK govt is serious about containment, why did they allow people from Wuhan into Heathrow with NHS leaflets instead of doing medical checks on them ? At that time, virus had already been popular enough for govt to know. Seems intentional ignoring first and then all of a sudden it becomes worldwide CRISIS. They want the carriers to enter UK and then scatter across UK. After few days, all of a sudden, govt and media moaning about "Authorities racing against time to find out these carriers". Seems some elite want the virus to spread to become big problem enough and then "NEW" medicine will be released by pharma mafia dons to make few billion bucks. They were never serious about containment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Some commentators saying they don`t believe the Chinese figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Grayphil said: I understand the place ur coming from, ur speaking to a fella who had to live in Eastern Europe for 10 years cos I couldn't afford one.. Shame we came have the crash without full societal breakdown... Also what would the house prices be with after anyway. Would be better to invest in a plot of land, a bit of running water and a tent or caravan Which to be honest, just sounds great You won`t have societal breakdown what it will show is how cliff edge this place is run, it will show how globalism is not as great for the unwashed as they keep making it out to be. Frankly i don`t think they give 2phooks who dies, just how things look to the plebs and in the meantime they can blame all the chaos of the last decade on a virus. In full on conspiracy mode, maybe they wanted it to interrupt everything hell it might even be man made ! What a perfect scapegoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mallish said: how can you actually go through life with your attitude to people? No one has the choice of deciding who lives - their partner or their child no one wants to see their family suffer whatever age they are are you saying that your own parents like to see you suffer then/ Is that what drives your vitriol? No person is worth more or less than any other and my boomer parents are certainly not worth less than you as they have a far more positive attitude to life and all people whatever age they may be My wife is a surgeon ion the NHS and i find these ridiculous suggestion that some people are treated better than others to be disgusting and ignorant beyond belief Also I am 29 I have good housing - so do my friends I do not go through life playing the victim and pretending that the world hates me You seem to be getting younger. On this thread you stated you were 30... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, sikejsudjek said: No. What's your point ? Its Tory policy to make people wait 5 weeks for universal credit which they're suggesting will be enough of an incentive to keep people self isolated. I know it wouldn't reassure me to stay off work as a self employed worker..... The loony left will even use a fatal virus to try to score political points, its very sad really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mallish said: are you saying that your own parents like to see you suffer then/ Is that what drives your vitriol? It's not that uncommon. See Games People Play, the Karpman Drama Triangle, or just plain Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Big question I'm most bothered about is why are the UK NOT saying that the virus can be spread even if you have no sympthoms??? Everywhere else in the world is saying that it can be. EG those exposed to a person who tested positive for it, had no sympthoms but tested postive themselves in China and other places. Edited March 4, 2020 by bear.getting.old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: Big question I'm most bothered about is why are the UK NOT saying that the virus can be spread even if you have no sympthoms??? Everywhere else in the world is saying that it can be. EG those exposed to a person who tested positive for it, had no sympthoms but tested postive themselves in China and other places. I'm guessing that's because out of the small number of people they are testing infection rates just aren't that high yet. Plus the more obvious signs of coronavirus (coughing up blood) aren't more widespread either. Amateur guess in my part. There's no point knackering the health service at this stage and making them run around in circles unnecessarily, surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mallish said: No person is worth more or less than any other and my boomer parents are certainly not worth less than you as they have a far more positive attitude to life and all people whatever age they may be Why are certain issues framed the way they are? 1) As tuition fees were introduced and increased, why was it only framed as a question of equity between those young people going to university today and those young people who won't go university? Why isn't there similar consideration of the question of equity between different generations? 2) Why has the WASPI movement been persuasive in arguing that it's unfair to increase the state pension age for women? Why hasn't a movement opposing the increase of the state pension to 67, then 68 been similarly persuasive? 1 hour ago, mallish said: My wife is a surgeon ion the NHS and i find these ridiculous suggestion that some people are treated better than others to be disgusting and ignorant beyond belief Are you suggesting people aren't treated differently, or shouldn't be treated differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 True and it also would put big strain on the NHS. Plus panic people into not going to work and not having any contact with people. Shutting down business. Still, enforced isolation seems to be working for China. I don't think 'self isolation' will work, people in the UK are too selfish to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, kzb said: So that means nothing at all can be done. On the other hand, if people had been stopped from going on Italian skiing trips there would be far fewer UK cases now. That report anyway is about global spread. I am talking about Britain. It stands to reason if you have very few carriers coming in, it is easier to contain them and their contacts. Your report also seems contradicted by the WHO report, linked to in Peter Hun's post above and also been available for several days on that Worldometers site. Things can be done, but unless you can sustainably get the R number down below 1 you are delaying/extending the spread not stopping it. Although it seems that China's containment may have achieved this, it remains to be seen if it is sustainable. If not, as soon as they try to resume normal life it will flare up again. Not sure how you think you would have predicted the need to stop Italian ski trips, it's now clear the virus had spread well before it became apparent. Wasn't Italy was the first European country to restrict/ban flights from China, doesn't seem to have helped. I recall they were criticised at the time for overreacting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: True and it also would put big strain on the NHS. Plus panic people into not going to work and not having any contact with people. Shutting down business. Still, enforced isolation seems to be working for China. I don't think 'self isolation' will work, people in the UK are too selfish to do it. You'll always get someone ignoring it but most people will go along if the situation justifies it. It's not the sort of thing anyone has a right to demand for a very general "just in case" situation. We'll all be screwed in the summer anyway. More exposure to the sun, and the sun has a great big corona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: Big question I'm most bothered about is why are the UK NOT saying that the virus can be spread even if you have no sympthoms??? Everywhere else in the world is saying that it can be. EG those exposed to a person who tested positive for it, had no sympthoms but tested postive themselves in China and other places. The frequency of asymptomatic spread is likely low. It looks like the importance of this has got exaggerated in peoples' minds. People keep saying [the cases are the] tip of the iceberg. But we couldn’t find that. We found there’s a lot of people who are cases, a lot of close contacts — but not a lot of asymptomatic circulation of this virus in the bigger population. And that’s different from flu. […] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Invective Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 85 cases now - oooh mama this is getting hot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: The loony left will even use a fatal virus to try to score political points, its very sad really It a valid point not left or right wing. We have millions of people doing customer service jobs on zero hours contract with no entitlement to sick pay and probably without the means to fund two weeks self isolation. What are the chances of them taking two weeks off work because they have what is probably just a cough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, rantnrave said: You seem to be getting younger. On this thread you stated you were 30... To lie takes much dedication and understanding of the target audience. A good recollection of lies is needed especially when lies are tailored to individuals. Prisons are full of bad liars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, rantnrave said: You seem to be getting younger. On this thread you stated you were 30... ?Now the sockies are talking to themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: It a valid point not left or right wing. We have millions of people doing customer service jobs on zero hours contract with no entitlement to sick pay and probably without the means to fund two weeks self isolation. What are the chances of them taking two weeks off work because they have what is probably just a cough? Not very much, which is why they should enforce them to do so and pay them a higher rate than the standard SSP- ONLY if tested positive for the virus Edited March 4, 2020 by bear.getting.old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, Simhadri said: If our UK govt is serious about containment, why did they allow people from Wuhan into Heathrow with NHS leaflets instead of doing medical checks on them ? Why did China allow people to leave without doing checks? If it were possible to contain it in China then this would make a lot more sense as it would unilaterally prevent the spread. Whereas if the UK didn't allow people from Wuhan, but other countries did, we would have to stop people from those countries entering as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: ?Now the sockies are talking to themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simhadri Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Kosmin said: Whereas if the UK didn't allow people from Wuhan, but other countries did, we would have to stop people from those countries entering as well! But Wuhan is where all this virus started. If Chinese failed to check, that's not excuse for us not doing checks. Its like saying illegal immigrants entered France and french didn't bother to check, so UK should do same and allow them. lol. If we are checking imports of goods from other countries, why not people be checked if they're coming from a place like Wuhan ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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