Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

3 minutes ago, byron78 said:

This made me laugh out loud this morning.

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣👍

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, captainb said:

I now sign in at all of those things manually.

Use real name and number. So if there is an outbreak of strain X and really need to contact me they can.

Letting the sensitivity of an app which has no knowledge of context, dictate whether you stay in your house for 2 weeks or not is somewhat bizarre.

Mostly it's just been my local pub for me. I put my real name down, just the first name though, they know who I am, and phone number. Never had the app, don't have a mobile phone.

[anonguest]

26 minutes ago, byron78 said:

This made me laugh out loud this morning.

 

"We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom..."

I would have thought , for catering establishments, it would be a legal requirement? 

BUT even if it is not they're not doing themselves any favours by advertising the fact that their food might be served by someone who only might have washed their hands after answering the call of nature.  I for one wouldn't be visiting them after this revelation!

[Ah-so]

19 hours ago, nightowl said:

And still no mention of the Nuremberg Code's origins.....🤨

Perhaps if you could clearly explain why it is relevant? We have a code of how human trials are undertaken today because there were extremely unethical trials undertaken in the past. So what? And why do you think it is some "gotcha" question?

[Bruce Banner]

18 minutes ago, anonguest said:

"We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom..."

I would have thought , for catering establishments, it would be a legal requirement? 

BUT even if it is not they're not doing themselves any favours by advertising the fact that their food might be served by someone who only might have washed their hands after answering the call of nature.  I for one wouldn't be visiting them after this revelation!

A Gerald Ratner moment?

Although I can't see how it could be policed without bog cameras. Perhaps trace elements in the soap and Bobby with detector stationed outside the bog? A challenge for big governments everywhere.

[byron78]

27 minutes ago, anonguest said:

"We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom..."

I would have thought , for catering establishments, it would be a legal requirement? 

BUT even if it is not they're not doing themselves any favours by advertising the fact that their food might be served by someone who only might have washed their hands after answering the call of nature.  I for one wouldn't be visiting them after this revelation!

I think it's a joke highlighting how easily debunked libertarian arguments usually are...

[Dr Doom]

19 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Perhaps if you could clearly explain why it is relevant? We have a code of how human trials are undertaken today because there were extremely unethical trials undertaken in the past. So what? And why do you think it is some "gotcha" question?

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.

This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.

The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.

[Will!]

29 minutes ago, anonguest said:

"We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom..."

I would have thought , for catering establishments, it would be a legal requirement? 

BUT even if it is not they're not doing themselves any favours by advertising the fact that their food might be served by someone who only might have washed their hands after answering the call of nature.  I for one wouldn't be visiting them after this revelation!

Whoosh!

[slawek]

6 minutes ago, byron78 said:

I think it's a joke highlighting how easily debunked libertarian arguments usually are...

Libertarians is often just thinly veiled selfishness. I can do what I want but you can't do anything I don't like.  

[nightowl]

2 minutes ago, slawek said:

Libertarians is often just thinly veiled selfishness. I can do what I want but you can't do anything I don't like.  

And collectivism quickly ends as selfishness too....just a different group of people instead but subject to the same ups and downs of human behaviour in the end.

[pig]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Why picking a fight with France on quarantine is a bad omen - however you interpret it There are reasons to be sceptical about the new amber-plus plan for those returning from France

The government really does seem to be losing it badly, apparently the justification for re-imposing quarantine is because the beta variant is circulating in France. Which is strange as its incidence in lower in percentage terms than in London and far lower in terms of case numbers than the UK. 

Strange one that. Tried yesterday to find a coherent reason but couldn't find any.  Concern over the Beta variant makes a certain amount of sense, but why is France being singled out ?

Other possibilities - Maybe BJ feeling stung over India ? Or if by opening up we get smashed by the Beta variant they can point back and say we tried to do 'something' ?

[byron78]

3 minutes ago, nightowl said:

And collectivism quickly ends as selfishness too....just a different group of people instead but subject to the same ups and downs of human behaviour in the end.

At the extremes, yes.

That's why balance is best.

That's why I despair when I see people taking about capitalism and socialism as if they're solid real world positions, as opposed to transitionary directions. 

 

[byron78]

10 minutes ago, slawek said:

Libertarians is often just thinly veiled selfishness. I can do what I want but you can't do anything I don't like.  

There seems to be a lot of revisionism as well. 

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, slawek said:

Not yet. The SA variant is the worse but it doesn't spread so easily. 

Desperate times need desperate measures. 

It is relatively easily supressed by social distancing/lockdown but still infectious enough to spread quickly once we try to go back to normal. It's already established in the UK so just another problem for freedom day. 

Imposing restrictions on people returning from countries with far lower rates than here is just yet another distraction.      

[Confusion of VIs]

8 minutes ago, pig said:

Strange one that. Tried yesterday to find a coherent reason but couldn't find any.  Concern over the Beta variant makes a certain amount of sense, but why is France being singled out ?

Other possibilities - Maybe BJ feeling stung over India ? Or if by opening up we get smashed by the Beta variant they can point back and say we tried to do 'something' ?

That's it, they know its here and that 70% of the population has been given the "wrong" vaccine to deal with it. It's depressing that our media are now completely unable to hold the government to account on even something as illogical as this. 

[nightowl]

7 minutes ago, byron78 said:

At the extremes, yes.

That's why balance is best.

That's why I despair when I see people taking about capitalism and socialism as if they're solid real world positions, as opposed to transitionary directions. 

Indeed, and it seems if you're fairly middle of the road on it you get assigned to those extremes by others whether it's correct or not 🙄.  

[anonguest]

26 minutes ago, slawek said:

Libertarians is often just thinly veiled selfishness. I can do what I want but you can't do anything I don't like.  

Errrr...I think it's more a case of individuals being allowed to do what they want so long as they do no harm to others? Liberterian idealogy doesn't include a right of individuals to NOT be offended by others actions.  It's only modern day thin skinned social justice warrior woke idiot types who have introduced the notion that equates being personally offended with 'harm'.

Edited July 18, 2021 by anonguest

[slawek]

8 minutes ago, nightowl said:

And collectivism quickly ends as selfishness too....just a different group of people instead but subject to the same ups and downs of human behaviour in the end.

People are a mixture of selfishness and altruism. There are situations where they are ready to sacrifice themselves for the common good but there are limits to it. The society organises itself in a way to represent a balance between those two extremes, to be a resultant of all personal preferences.

Neither absolute libertarianism or collectivism represents a human nature and they will ultimately fall apart. The only stable system is what the majority wants, any other is just a utopia. The minority views are usually ignored or suppressed, often using the violence. 

[Peter Hun]

13 hours ago, coypondboy said:

No one is following the rules anymore herd immunity will save the day but there will be thousands of deaths over the coming months.

Bournemouth beach today and in the evening thousands wandering around eating and drinking inside and out no mask to be seen and thats before we can legally do it on Monday.

UK now no 1 in the world for new daily cases

Brighton too, completely returned to normal. Drunken dancing in the street, masks social distancing are history.

[pig]

1 hour ago, anonguest said:

"We encourage employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom..."

I would have thought , for catering establishments, it would be a legal requirement? 

BUT even if it is not they're not doing themselves any favours by advertising the fact that their food might be served by someone who only might have washed their hands after answering the call of nature.  I for one wouldn't be visiting them after this revelation!

Too right! 

So you are almost there in understanding, Spoilers below, but try reading it again first

 

(they are most likely a responsible establishment ripping the p1ss out of the government. Lets hope people from other countries don't take your lead and give the UK a swerve!)

 

[slawek]

12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It is relatively easily supressed by social distancing/lockdown but still infectious enough to spread quickly once we try to go back to normal. It's already established in the UK so just another problem for freedom day. 

Imposing restrictions on people returning from countries with far lower rates than here is just yet another distraction.      

The SA variant hasn't managed to spread despite being with us for some time already. This shows that it is less contagious than other variants. There is already a new version of Delta variant, which contains a key mutation of the SA variant. It is probably more likely candidate to replace the current Delta.  

I agree that the UK restrictions on people returning is a distraction. The UK is currently the epicenter of the new wave, other countries should protect themselves from the UK visitors.

[byron78]

18 minutes ago, nightowl said:

Indeed, and it seems if you're fairly middle of the road on it you get assigned to those extremes by others whether it's correct or not 🙄.  

And we can change overtime too! 

I was wedded to a fairly hard right "privatise it all and free us from the tyranny of the state!" mindset for decades.

It's freed me tbf, but those of you without generational assets now have people like me as landlords instead of the council. 4 times the rent and the only ladders left to climb out of it also benefit old farts like me by inflating our (already fat) capital gains.

Edited July 18, 2021 by byron78

[pig]

10 minutes ago, anonguest said:

Errrr...I think it's more a case of individuals being allowed to do what they want so long as they do no harm to others? Liberterian idealogy doesn't include a right of individuals to NOT be offended by others actions.  It's only modern day thin skinned social justice warrior woke idiot types who have introduced the notion that equates offense with 'harm'.

Look at America. Libertarianism is an ideology for the rich and powerful. At the extremes, if you're rich enough to have your own private army, healthcare, helicopter and so on its a great idea. If you're poor/exploited by the above your only hope is a benign supportive state infrastructure.

[Riedquat]

40 minutes ago, slawek said:

Libertarians is often just thinly veiled selfishness. I can do what I want but you can't do anything I don't like.  

The hypocrisy is strong with this one!

[Riedquat]

17 minutes ago, anonguest said:

Errrr...I think it's more a case of individuals being allowed to do what they want so long as they do no harm to others? Liberterian idealogy doesn't include a right of individuals to NOT be offended by others actions.  It's only modern day thin skinned social justice warrior woke idiot types who have introduced the notion that equates being personally offended with 'harm'.

Where I often butt heads with certain people is they only look at such freedom from a rather specific perspective - usually along the lines of something like "if you don't like this restriction then you must want to behave badly," which isn't a sound assumption. I'm quite happy to be vaccinated (and I have been, quite a while ago now) despite not being at high risk without it and loathe the idea of forcing it, or treating unvaccinated people separately. There seems to be no room in their minds for that. The freedom to accept the risks from others due to not going authoritarian on them, without wanting to act like a dick myself - that's how I see it.

I've no time for irresponsible fools (which also isn't a contradiction to the above), and I've no time for those who want everyone controlled either. Both are fairly similar, but the latter a bigger worry since they're more insidious and more likely to really influence society.