Austerity over, let the money spunking begin!

[reddog]

Looks like we will soon be wasting a whole load of money again:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4646368/Bring-tax-rises-boost-public-spending-says-Letwin.html

 

Looks like no one seems to have remembered:

1) why we started 'austerity' in the first place

2) Tory 'austerity' just meant increasing spending less quickly than Labour

3) Government finance (deficit, balance of trade) still look to be in a historically awful state (a lot of Economist appear on business programmes with the aim to down play the mess)

 

I guess this is just Therasa May's attempt to bribe people not to vote for Corbyn (with money we don't have)

 

[darkmarket]

What will look awkward in retrospect is the coincidental timing of austerity and historically low rates and QE. At just the moment when the BoE was making it possible for the Treasury to cooperate and create a genuine stimulus effect, they took a contradictory approach. Now consensus is building around using bonds to cover infrastructure- / nationalisation-type projects, they'll be based on more expensive debt in a context of expensive debt increasingly weighing on the overall budget.

It wouldn't have affected the supposed independence of the Bank for Government to coordinate their approach with monetary policy a bit better, it has the potential to be a very expensive mistake.

Still, any upward pressure on labour costs feeding through to rates would be more than welcome given the failure of QE.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

1 hour ago, reddog said:

Looks like we will soon be wasting a whole load of money again:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4646368/Bring-tax-rises-boost-public-spending-says-Letwin.html

 

Looks like no one seems to have remembered:

1) why we started 'austerity' in the first place

2) Tory 'austerity' just meant increasing spending less quickly than Labour

3) Government finance (deficit, balance of trade) still look to be in a historically awful state (a lot of Economist appear on business programmes with the aim to down play the mess)

 

I guess this is just Therasa May's attempt to bribe people not to vote for Corbyn (with money we don't have)

 

Taxes already 60%+ for many. #### paying more, people will just leave. The UK is in a mess and taking more from productive people is doomed to failure

[jiltedjen]

Tax spending more and earning less. That way the feckless can volunteer to pay more taxes, and the prudent can opt out. 

letting all the value of our work and effort to go into undertaxed housing assets is a bit mental. 

[reddog]

What I find interesting is when they say "end austerity', they actually mean go back to Gordon Brown style money spunking.

 

Gordon Browns magic money only lasted for a relatively short period, but people have got it into their heads that it was normal (anyone with any historical knowledge knows it was abnormal)

[Bruce Banner]

5 minutes ago, reddog said:

What I find interesting is when they say "end austerity', they actually mean go back to Gordon Brown style money spunking.

 

Gordon Browns magic money only lasted for a relatively short period, but people have got it into their heads that it was normal (anyone with any historical knowledge knows it was abnormal)

A "relatively short period" is an eternity when compared to the average tenure of a British PM.  

[South Lorne]

1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Taxes already 60%+ for many. #### paying more, people will just leave. The UK is in a mess and taking more from productive people is doomed to failure

..agreed ...taxpayers in the private sector are the key to a country's finances..they pay the salaries , holiday pay, taxes and pensions for the public sector when many of them have no pensions or holiday pay themselves ...many 'retired' during this spring's business rates rises ...it was not viable to carry on ...taxpayers from this private sector are a dwindling force...and there has to be a question mark over the 'dwindling' cake .....

Edited June 28, 2017 by South Lorne

[olliegog]

13 hours ago, reddog said:

What I find interesting is when they say "end austerity', they actually mean go back to Gordon Brown style money spunking.

 

Gordon Browns magic money only lasted for a relatively short period, but people have got it into their heads that it was normal (anyone with any historical knowledge knows it was abnormal)

exactly

just as low low mortgage rates (to fund overpriced houses) are the 'new normal'

the money to do all these 'end of austerity' things has to come from somewhere/someone

 

[equitystasher]

The  money tree was found to bail out the banks and landed the country in eye watering debt which has created moral hazard. We are heading for another crises as it's business as usual in the financial sector. They are the biggest contributors along with property specualtors to the Conservative party who do their bidding.

 

Since policies of cutting everything including basic services whilst allowing massive tax avoidance to take place by individuals and corporations has seen the debt almost double. This is the biggest revenue hole rather than "scroungers"

The equality gap has widened and it will continue.

This is not sound economics but ideology.

You can't keep cutting services,deregulating  and promote speculation of basic human needs like housing and expect the majority not to suffer.

The debt burden should not of been shoved totally onto the public sector but balanced throughout society. 

People are starting to wake up to the con.

Edited June 29, 2017 by equitystasher
Typo

[Freki]

Inequality is on the rise in this country and people here think that the bottom 10% is still receiving too much?

Tax wealth and stop all those scams:

• ISA £20k allowance a year, really?
• Pension contribution tax free, goodness this is massively in favour of the high earners
• No Land Value Tax
• Non Dom still in place
• Income tax kept being slashed.
• Higher income tax band keeps being pushed further away.

Adam's smith and all the neoclassicals can rot, we live in a rent seeking society, and the problem is first and foremost all those rent seekers

And before you ask I'm on that higher tax band.

[Locke]

58 minutes ago, equitystasher said:

The  money tree was found to bail out the banks and landed the country in eye watering debt which has created moral hazard. We are heading for another crises as it's business as usual in the financial sector. They are the biggest contributors along with property specualtors to the Conservative party who do their bidding.

 

Since policies of cutting everything including basic services whilst allowing massive tax avoidance to take place by individuals and corporations has seen the debt almost double. This is the biggest revenue hole rather than "scroungers"

The equality gap has widened and it will continue.

This is not sound economics but ideology.

You can't keep cutting services,deregulating  and promote speculation of basic human needs like housing and expect the majority not to suffer.

The debt burden should not of been shoved totally onto the public sector but balanced throughout society. 

People are starting to wake up to the con.

 

The government has no right to steal from anyone.

Taxation is theft.

If the State wants to survive, it needs to default on all debt, and never deficit spend ever, ever again.

Any other path is death.

[olliegog]

1 hour ago, equitystasher said:

The  money tree was found to bail out the banks and landed the country in eye watering debt which has created moral hazard. We are heading for another crises as it's business as usual in the financial sector. They are the biggest contributors along with property specualtors to the Conservative party who do their bidding.

 

 

it was nulabour who bailed out the banks with their QE

Edited June 29, 2017 by olliegog
s

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

11 minutes ago, olliegog said:

it was nulabour who bailed out the banks with their QE

I don't think anyone was put in the frame.

 

 

[crashmonitor]

1 hour ago, Freki said:

Inequality is on the rise in this country and people here think that the bottom 10% is still receiving too much?

 

The poor seem to be have become a commodity and  a meal ticket for some business (like cladding manufacturers and construction firms), landlords and certain  public sector workers. The Grenfell disaster highlighted the amount of money that is expended in the name of the poor, the £80,000 per unit, well intentioned but creating a disaster. Some people don't get that level of State support until their retirements in aggregate  ( including compulsory education from 5-16) many of whom may live a lower standard of living than those 10%.

Clearly money needs to be targetted more effectively especially with regard to housing.

Edited June 29, 2017 by crashmonitor

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

If they actually built enough houses to keep the prices reasonable, they wouldn't have to pay people more money in order for them to be able to afford them. Another one to add to the list of justifications for Zugzwangs major public house building program.

I notice in the guilts (sic) thread yields have risen by quite a bit. Must be anticipating something - surely not a weak government spunking money to stay in power ?

[zugzwang]

Keynesian deficit spending has only one purpose: to hold up aggregate demand while the private sector deleverages, bad debts are written off, and the economy rebalances.

The difference between the recession of 2008 and those that preceded it that the One Percenters have successfully used austerity and bailout credit to prevent housing, stockmarket and bond prices from correcting, thereby holding on to and even reinforcing their rentier advantage.

 

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

1 minute ago, zugzwang said:

Keynesian deficit spending has only one purpose: to hold up aggregate demand while the private sector deleverages, bad debts are written off, and the economy rebalances.

The difference between the recession of 2008 and those that preceded it that the One Percenters have successfully used austerity and bailout credit to prevent housing, stockmarket and bond prices from correcting, thereby holding on to and even reinforcing their rentier advantage.

 

Spooky.

[crashmonitor]

22 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

 

I notice in the guilts (sic) thread yields have risen by quite a bit. Must be anticipating something - surely not a weak government spunking money to stay in power ?

Still doesn't look very attractive..the maturity yield on 2.5% index linked treasury stock 2024 is still almost minus 2% per annum in real terms.

What a sorry state of affairs when a certain loss over inflation of 2%pa is the best "safe" option available or sticking it in building society at 1% with a 2.7% pa loss over rpi.

Guess the money for the Government's spending has to come from somewhere.

Now bend over and  submit your life savings.

Edited June 29, 2017 by crashmonitor

[doomed]

Deep down everybody knows the government in cahoots with the banks will steal everything they can. People should just get their money out the system asap.

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

24 minutes ago, doomed said:

People should just get their money out the system asap.

Easier said than done.  I have a large balance through STR'ing, and get a nasty aftertaste "lending" my hard earned to the banks for bugger-all.

[Wayward]

3 hours ago, Freki said:

Inequality is on the rise in this country and people here think that the bottom 10% is still receiving too much?

Tax wealth and stop all those scams:

• ISA £20k allowance a year, really?
• Pension contribution tax free, goodness this is massively in favour of the high earners
• No Land Value Tax
• Non Dom still in place
• Income tax kept being slashed.
• Higher income tax band keeps being pushed further away.

Adam's smith and all the neoclassicals can rot, we live in a rent seeking society, and the problem is first and foremost all those rent seekers

And before you ask I'm on that higher tax band.

I agree we need to tax wealth and in particular the unearned mad gainz from property value increases but most of the 'scams' you refer to above relate to income.  Isn't the real problem with distribution of wealth and capital gains...?

[Guest TheBlueCat]

21 hours ago, reddog said:

Looks like we will soon be wasting a whole load of money again:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4646368/Bring-tax-rises-boost-public-spending-says-Letwin.html

 

Looks like no one seems to have remembered:

1) why we started 'austerity' in the first place

2) Tory 'austerity' just meant increasing spending less quickly than Labour

3) Government finance (deficit, balance of trade) still look to be in a historically awful state (a lot of Economist appear on business programmes with the aim to down play the mess)

 

I guess this is just Therasa May's attempt to bribe people not to vote for Corbyn (with money we don't have)

 

Labour will be incensed that the government is going to bribe special interest groups with other people's money, that's their policy.

[Freki]

13 minutes ago, Wayward said:

I agree we need to tax wealth and in particular the unearned mad gainz from property value increases but most of the 'scams' you refer to above relate to income.  Isn't the real problem with distribution of wealth and capital gains...?

Well the thing is this country does not tax wealth yet, aside of the inheritance tax, which is easily avoided by doing donations through out once life and the use of overseas territories for doing shoddy business.

Some of the points I mentioned are levers that have been used, at some point in the past 7 years. Lower tax on high incomes. changing the ISA allowance from what £3k to £20k (who can afford to put that much away?)

[Freki]

20 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Working isn't some sort of privilege. If people have studied hard, got huge student debts and have worked their way up the career ladder to be on a good wage, why punish them? Again, all taxes for those on PAYE should be reduced to encourage work, stop people relying on tax credits and move taxes to wealth/unearned profits.

I will only talk about this point which summarises where you come from with the way you disagree with me. The worked hard your way up is mostly a myth, social mobility is broken. This problem can only be tackled by altruistic ways.

The income disparity between essential services such as health care, security (read Police), education who are contributing much more than any corporate job can to society and the unwillingness of us to pay a fair price for it and ensure that everyone enjoys the same access to it baffles me.

That's why, so far I think, taxing is the best way of doing things at the moment. If the transaction system becomes fairer and we can as well protect people who are unfortunate in their lives (disabilities, accidents...), then we as a society can live a better life.

[Democorruptcy]

21 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Taxes already 60%+ for many. #### paying more, people will just leave. The UK is in a mess and taking more from productive people is doomed to failure

From the OP's link:

Quote

 

Based on in-depth questioning of nearly 3,000 people, it found that 48 per cent said they wanted higher taxation to pay for more spending on health, education and social benefits. The last time support for higher taxes was found to be so high was in 2004.

Some 44 per cent want taxes to stay the same, and just four per cent say they want them cut, the report found.

'There are clear signs of increased support for a government that is more generous with its spending and a growing public willingness to pay for it,' the report said.

 

It's just a pity the extra taxation wouldn't be spent on what they want, just added to what's already misappropriated.

For just one Help to Buy Bail Banks London property bought for £600k and sold for £330k and the governbankment hands over £240k to a bank.