Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[GrizzlyDave]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Speak for yourself. This remainer (who voted to leave in 2016) wants a confirmatory vote / 2nd referendum to confirm the will of the people now, and whatever the result it should be enacted immediately.

Exactly - put it back in the box and pretend it never happened.

#ChangeNothingUK

[winkie]

21 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No. Remainers want to put it back in the box and pretend it never hspppened.

Do you honestly think the outcome of the vote has anything to do with what is happening now......what is going on is the chance many have been waiting to happen, it would've had to come out into the open and been fought over eventually one day......we are now living through major changes, not all of will be good....eye opening times.

[Bruce Banner]

18 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Exactly - put it back in the box and pretend it never happened.

#ChangeNothingUK

Are you Nigel Evans by any chance? He was on the News this morning, wilfully misinterpreting anything he didn't like.

Until he came up against Sam Gyimah, who made him look shifty and dishonest by comparison.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Bruce Banner

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, winkie said:

Do you honestly think the outcome of the vote has anything to do with what is happening now......what is going on is the chance many have been waiting to happen, it would've had to come out into the open and been fought over eventually one day......we are now living through major changes, not all of will be good....eye opening times.

100% remainers trying to kill brexit by any means. To suggest orherwise is dishonest.

[IMHAL]

7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Exactly - put it back in the box and pretend it never happened.

#ChangeNothingUK

He did not say that. He's want to ensure that a democratic outcome is achieved. I am sure that you do not.

[crouch]

18 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

and most certainly there is no respect for 'the will of the people'. 

He's made for the EU.

[jonb2]

6 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You don’t think the coalition of losers is going to vote tonight to tie the PMs hands?

 

I think no-deal is the only option. It will be extremely bad for the country. But I've always said show not tell. It won't shut the Right-Wing down - they will ramp up the lies while selling everything off just to stop civil unrest.

I cannot see how we can recover from it and will probably mean going to the IMF, cap-in-hand to get us out the shit. The blame game will continue and both remainers and the EU will be the targets. There will be no money, apart from borrowings which will be used  to firefight the gaping holes in trade, unemployment and smashed businesses. The bitterness and division will not be solved by no-deal as there will be no easy way of uniting the country for 20 years or so. Meanwhile the world will still gawp at us in amazement at the sheer stupidity of what we've done - respect will be much lower as many of our ambassadors have detected.

I hope the EU play hard ball and make it a 10 year cooling off period before they even contemplate having us back on much reduced terms. But they may not want us back.

Johnson, JRM and Farage will be fine.

 

[Bruce Banner]

7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

100% remainers trying to kill brexit by any means. To suggest orherwise is dishonest.

In my case it is the truth! 

[IMHAL]

8 minutes ago, crouch said:

He's made for the EU.

He was made in the UK for those that are dumb and dishonest enough to use him. That would be us. FACT.

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

I think no-deal is the only option. It will be extremely bad for the country. But I've always said show not tell. It won't shut the Right-Wing down - they will ramp up the lies while selling everything off just to stop civil unrest.

I cannot see how we can recover from it and will probably mean going to the IMF, cap-in-hand to get us out the shit. The blame game will continue and both remainers and the EU will be the targets. There will be no money, apart from borrowings which will be used  to firefight the gaping holes in trade, unemployment and smashed businesses. The bitterness and division will not be solved by no-deal as there will be no easy way of uniting the country for 20 years or so. Meanwhile the world will still gawp at us in amazement at the sheer stupidity of what we've done - respect will be much lower as many of our ambassadors have detected.

I hope the EU play hard ball and make it a 10 year cooling off period before they even contemplate having us back on much reduced terms. But they may not want us back.

Johnson, JRM and Farage will be fine.

 

You think no deal will happen; I think no brexit will happen!

Wanna swap?

[IMHAL]

11 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I think no-deal is the only option. It will be extremely bad for the country. But I've always said show not tell. It won't shut the Right-Wing down - they will ramp up the lies while selling everything off just to stop civil unrest.

I cannot see how we can recover from it and will probably mean going to the IMF, cap-in-hand to get us out the shit. The blame game will continue and both remainers and the EU will be the targets. There will be no money, apart from borrowings which will be used  to firefight the gaping holes in trade, unemployment and smashed businesses. The bitterness and division will not be solved by no-deal as there will be no easy way of uniting the country for 20 years or so. Meanwhile the world will still gawp at us in amazement at the sheer stupidity of what we've done - respect will be much lower as many of our ambassadors have detected.

I hope the EU play hard ball and make it a 10 year cooling off period before they even contemplate having us back on much reduced terms. But they may not want us back.

Johnson, JRM and Farage will be fine.

 

Unfortunately, I think you are right about most of that. There will be a very long period of blaming remainers and the EU for the UK's post Brexit misfortunes before we wake up to the damage that has been caused.

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You think no deal will happen; I think no brexit will happen!

Wanna swap?

I would prefer no Brexit (revoke A50) to no deal. Indeed, I personally would prefer no Brexit to any form of Brexit. But, my number one preference would be for a democratic solution in the form of a 2nd referendum / confirmatory vote, to ascertain and enact the will of the people now, in 2019.

Is that clear enough, or will you attempt to misinterpret it as usual?

[OnionTerror]

40 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You don’t think the coalition of losers is going to vote tonight to tie the PMs hands?

 

No deal is 99% on IMHO.  Everything that is going on at the moment is just fluff.  The UK govt haven’t come with alternative arrangements, and the EU won’t agree changes to the backstop.

..and even if magic Johnson comes back with a new deal, it’ll only get rejected by parliament.

[zugzwang]

56 minutes ago, crouch said:

Yes it's all figures isn't it? That's all that matters and you can't see beyond DSGE; stochastics or probability can you?

Wake up man! The Greeks suffered a coup! the deposition of an elected government to push through reforms so that German banks can get repaid. And this is that shining edifice on the hill that you want to be a member of? Good Luck! 

The Greek economy is recovering smartly (Q2 GDP print out tomorrow for confirmation). As is the Spanish economy (on track for single digit unemployment next year).

The Italians need to stop flirting with fascism.

 

 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No. Remainers want to put it back in the box and pretend it never hspppened.

Utter garbage as usual. Remainers and ex-leave votes want a second referendum to clarify the will of the people now that all the leavers lies have been exposed. 

[crouch]

1 minute ago, zugzwang said:

The Greek economy is recovering smartly (Q2 GDP print out tomorrow for confirmation). As is the Spanish economy (on track for single digit unemployment next year).

As I said it's all about numbers.

[zugzwang]

1 minute ago, crouch said:

As I said it's all about numbers.

Numbers which tell a rather different story to the doomsday narrative Brexiteers promote.

[DiggerUK]

Brexit is a path I will support, deal or NoDeal. The EU is undemocratic, MEP's have no legislative power.

This current battle is about defeating the dishonesty of closet remainers doing all they can to overturn the referendum. Sadly, for me as a Labour Party member, The Oaf is playing the game well, and Labour by  going with the NoDeal dirt bags is  ensuring that we have little to no chance of getting in to No.10.

Five years of The Oaf, Javid, Patel, Raab etc., should fill any sensible person with dread..._

[winkie]

51 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

100% remainers trying to kill brexit by any means. To suggest orherwise is dishonest.

Nothing, when it comes to what people want is 100% anything.....to suggest otherwise is delusional...

[thecrashingisles]

1 hour ago, crouch said:

And the deposition of an elected government to force through reforms to ensure German banks get repaid? You live in la la land! Greece had to suffer a coup! 

That's the problem with folk like you - only the figures count and the end ( The Project)justifies the means - that's your Europe!

Why do you lie?  Papandreou stood down as a condition of the opposition for forming a coalition.

[AThirdWay]

3 minutes ago, DiggerUK said:

Brexit is a path I will support, deal or NoDeal. The EU is undemocratic, MEP's have no legislative power.

See, this is what I don't get. You'll support Brexit, come what may.....

The vast majority of economic predictions predict it will harm the UK to a greater or lesser extent.

The vested interests of the head brexiteers are plain to see.

We Scottish separatists are ****-a-hoop at the thought that the Conservative and Unionist Party are inducing the rebirth of the country of Scotland.

It's a distinct possibility that the re-unification of Eire is on the cards, again thanks to the Conservative and Unionist Party.

You are essentially supporting the break up of the UK, with the massive financial implications that will have.... And STILL you want Brexit???

You might doubt that Scotland and NI will break away from the UK, but if you do then you are undermining your own argument. The only time Scotland got the Westminster government it voted for was during the Tony Blair years, god help us! I doubt NI has ever had a government they actually voted for. Your argument of an undemocratic parliament is what Scotland, NI and Wales currently see in Parliament. The 'passion' with which you view Brexit is reflected in those Scots that support independence. I've said, right from the day after the EU ref, that it will trigger Scottish independence, the harder the Brexit the more likely that prediction will come to pass ?

[winkie]

 

[rockerboy]

My prediction of next few days

- Boris loses the vote

- Not enough Labour MPS vote for a GE

A very rocky year awaits us - One which I believe history will eventually look back on as a credit to how our democracy works even though it may not look like it now. 

What we see is not a disaster as you may think is portrayed in the media - it is living breathing democracy at work - People and MPS can vote as they want - it is the lifeblood of freedoms that flow in this country and we have a ringside seat.

Remember this - what you see could never ever happen in the EU because the people and MEPs would never be allowed to have such individual political power.

The problem as I see it is this - Remainer MPS are making sure we cannot leave the EU without a deal - Not only does it give the EU all power in the negotiations, it moves the balance of power firmly to the elite (MPS) over future referendum decisions. This is the most dangerous permanent fissure for us all here - We all ignore this at our peril. 

The pound going down is a synptom  of the political turmoil in parliament - There is no collective political majority for Brexit in parliament. It will pass when stability is achieved. 

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

I would prefer no Brexit (revoke A50) to no deal. Indeed, I personally would prefer no Brexit to any form of Brexit. But, my number one preference would be for a democratic solution in the form of a 2nd referendum / confirmatory vote, to ascertain and enact the will of the people now, in 2019.

Is that clear enough, or will you attempt to misinterpret it as usual?

A 2nd ref with the format decided by remainers, and the choices limited by remainers. Yeah I know.

All designed and engineered to keep us in.

[kzb]

9 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

Not following the A218 would mean such an agreement would be legally void, as per agreed by member states by the Lisbon Treaty.  Such as trying to get member states to agree directly with the UK.

I'm not suggesting not following the procedure as stated in A218 (nor with negotiating individually with members).

The wording of Article 50 definitely implies the negotiation will follow the A218 procedure as if the leaving state were a third country.  The "as if" is not stated but it must mean that.

Otherwise, the current Withdrawal Agreement is unlawful, because it was negotiated whilst we are still an EU member.  Both the withdrawal agreement and the future relationship negotiation have to follow A218: 

Article 50 says:

In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement (1) with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement (2) shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (3).

(1)  "an agreement"  clearly includes the arrangements for withdrawal and the future relationship.  That is clear from the rest of the sentence.

(2) "That agreement" clearly refers to the "an agreement" in (1)

(3)  "That agreement" is to be negotiated in accordance with A218.  "That agreement" clearly includes both the withdrawal agreement and the future relationship, and therefore both must follow A218.

By the information given to me so far, the reason the future relationship cannot be negotiated until we leave is because A128(3) only applies to third countries and other organisations.

I am saying that is the wrong interpretation.  The intention of Article 50 is that the negotiation will follow A218 as if the leaving state were a third country.  Not that it has to become a third country first.  Otherwise, no negotiation whatsoever can take place, until the leaving state is a third country.