Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[dugsbody]

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

So having listened to the "anger and emotions rife on both sides", your ultimate response is to tell one side to get stuffed?

Well, we either implement the protocol, which the government campaigned and won an election on, or we refuse to implement the democratic will of the people and break the protocol.

But if we're going to go the undemocratic route, why not just reverse brexit. We'd all be better off and NI would cease to be a problem.

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Well, we either implement the protocol, which the government campaigned and won an election on, or we refuse to implement the democratic will of the people and break the protocol.

But if we're going to go the undemocratic route, why not just reverse brexit. We'd all be better off and NI would cease to be a problem.

The manifesto said that the government would ensure that "in the implementation of our Brexit deal, we maintain and strengthen the integrity and smooth operation of our internal market."

[dugsbody]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

The manifesto said that the government would ensure that "in the implementation of our Brexit deal, we maintain and strengthen the integrity and smooth operation of our internal market."

Right, so I just imaged all the promises.

 

[thecrashingisles]

7 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Right, so I just imaged all the promises.

I'm just pointing out what the manifesto actually said:

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/conservative-party-manifesto-2019

[slawek]

5 minutes ago, Cocha said:

If you are unaware of how much of our manufacturing industry was offshored and outsourced to eastern European countries through the 90's and 00's, you prove my point that for some, they only started pretending to give a toss post June 2016. Some of this was even done with the support of the EU, via grants and loans. Well, as we were net contributors to the EU budget, what I should say is the EU used British taxpayers money to help facilitate British taxpayers jobs being outsourced to other EU countries. In my own personal opinion, this wasn't particularly beneficial to British workers or a benefit of EU membership.

EEs joined the EU in 2004, as far as I remember, so this has nothing to do with the EU. Most manufacturing jobs were lost to China. It happened in the US too, which is not in the EU, and started even before the UK joined EEA. 

The UK was doing much better before Brexit, now is at the bottom of GDP growth in Europe and among developed countries. 

[dugsbody]

6 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

I'm just pointing out what the manifesto actually said:

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/conservative-party-manifesto-2019

You always have a way out don't you. Can't just be on the level.

[14stFlyer]

2 hours ago, IMHAL said:

I think the UK should do what it agreed to and what the electorate voted for and implement the NIP. It should accept that the consequence of Brexit may lead to the re-unification of Ireland. 

Brexiteers knew what they voted for, so let them have it.

So we come back to the Hotel California. The EU negotiating stance from day 1 has meant that the U.K. can check out of the EU, but it can never leave with sovereignty (intact with Northern Ireland at least).  

I do not remember this being in the press as an outcome at the time of the vote. This said, many of us kind of thought at the time that it would stop us leaving the SM/CU in what became known as a Hard Brexit. So perhaps a second vote is required?  I certainly cannot see a majority of people in the U.K. explicitly voting for a break up in the Union, even with Boris and his clowns in charge.  

[byron78]

43 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

You always have a way out don't you. Can't just be on the level.

I would just be content with not being the person defending the worst, most corrupt, simpleton and shiesters government we've ever had.

Imagine being so taken in by liars you have started unconsciously lying to yourself! It's quite something.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by byron78

[rollover]

4 hours ago, byron78 said:

I would just be content with not being the person defending the worst, most corrupt, simpleton and shiesters government we've ever had.

Imagine being so taken in by liars you have started unconsciously lying to yourself! It's quite something.

 

🤣

[steve99]

16 hours ago, skinnylattej said:

Not true, 30 hours on a 'plane.

Faster than a truck full of green beans from Morocco!

Most of the veg stuff grown in Aus is inferior to UK/EU.  The best stuff is already exported from Aus to Japan/China/SE Asia for a high price, stuff you cant even buy in Aus. The rest is decidedly B grade.   Never mind the carbon footprint of a  747 full of potatoes. 

[IMHAL]

5 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

So we come back to the Hotel California. The EU negotiating stance from day 1 has meant that the U.K. can check out of the EU, but it can never leave with sovereignty (intact with Northern Ireland at least).  

The fact is the circle could never be squared. It is a fact that if the Uk left the EU then it would become a 3rd coutry and that would have implications for NI and the GFA. It was not a 'negotiating position'. It was just a fact.

5 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

I do not remember this being in the press as an outcome at the time of the vote. This said, many of us kind of thought at the time that it would stop us leaving the SM/CU in what became known as a Hard Brexit. So perhaps a second vote is required?  I certainly cannot see a majority of people in the U.K. explicitly voting for a break up in the Union, even with Boris and his clowns in charge.  

I agree, it was not in the press but it was discussed here extensively and was pointed our many time, poo pooed by Brexiteers as projekt fear, sadly now reallity.

Meanwhile Brexiteers are cheering sourcing potatoes and tomatoes and flying them over by plane from Oz and NZ. Batsh1t crazy has not stopped.

[IMHAL]

34 minutes ago, steve99 said:

Most of the veg stuff grown in Aus is inferior to UK/EU.  The best stuff is already exported from Aus to Japan/China/SE Asia for a high price, stuff you cant even buy in Aus. The rest is decidedly B grade.   Never mind the carbon footprint of a  747 full of potatoes. 

I find it quite unbelievable that it's even being suggested as a solution. Flaberghasted at the downright stupidity on display but not really surprised. 

[IMHAL]

7 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

You’re like a mirror image of Ian Paisley. “Compromise? Never! Never! Never!”

Pahh!

The NIP was the compromise and the solution to squaring the circle, voted in by the whole UK. This bunch of t0ssers are planning to reneg on it. Sounds like a shyster thing to do or even suggest doing. 

Brexiteers went a whole bunch on democracy when it suited them, now the shoe is on the other foot. 

 

[14stFlyer]

1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

The fact is the circle could never be squared. It is a fact that if the Uk left the EU then it would become a 3rd coutry and that would have implications for NI and the GFA. It was not a 'negotiating position'. It was just a fact.

I disagree. Both then, and now, it is leaving the SM/CU that comes with the 3rd country implications for NI and the GFA, not leaving the EU. It was, and still is, a negotiating position from the EU that the U.K. cannot leave the EU, and regain its sovereignty, without leaving the SM/CU. 

[skinnylattej]

14 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Well, we either implement the protocol, which the government campaigned and won an election on, or we refuse to implement the democratic will of the people and break the protocol.

But if we're going to go the undemocratic route, why not just reverse brexit. We'd all be better off and NI would cease to be a problem.

What has democracy got to do with this?

This about the rule of law.

BoJo understood what he was signing, a treaty covered by Vienna convention

Thus BoJo must implement the treaty that he signed.

Among other commentators, the government put out a half decent analysis of the effects and problems that would occur after the NIP would come into force.

[Freki]

6 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

I disagree. Both then, and now, it is leaving the SM/CU that comes with the 3rd country implications for NI and the GFA, not leaving the EU. It was, and still is, a negotiating position from the EU that the U.K. cannot leave the EU, and regain its sovereignty, without leaving the SM/CU. 

It is pretty evident why this is the case. 

It's a matter of sovereignty. They can't allow to have a rogue player within the SM/CU. Otherwise the UK can't easily undermine international trade deals signed by the EU. it will offer a slightly better deal to anyone else, and offer to become the gateway to international trade to the EU. 

One can't be in the SM/CU and sign their own trade deal. The NIP is here to ensure this is not happening while keeping NI in the SM/CU. 

I fail to see what is so hard to understand. But yes 6 years later we are still using the same project real arguments... Who could have seen it coming?

[byron78]

6 minutes ago, Freki said:

It is pretty evident why this is the case. 

It's a matter of sovereignty. They can't allow to have a rogue player within the SM/CU. Otherwise the UK can't easily undermine international trade deals signed by the EU. it will offer a slightly better deal to anyone else, and offer to become the gateway to international trade to the EU. 

One can't be in the SM/CU and sign their own trade deal. The NIP is here to ensure this is not happening while keeping NI in the SM/CU. 

I fail to see what is so hard to understand. But yes 6 years later we are still using the same project real arguments... Who could have seen it coming?

Everybody who has taken the blinkers off.

 

[IMHAL]

8 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

I disagree. Both then, and now, it is leaving the SM/CU that comes with the 3rd country implications for NI and the GFA, not leaving the EU. It was, and still is, a negotiating position from the EU that the U.K. cannot leave the EU, and regain its sovereignty, without leaving the SM/CU. 

Reasonable point but not the whole story.

There was only one solution IF the GFA and NI were to be taken seriously and that was to stay in the SM and CU. Obviously NI and the GFA have been sold down the river because the UK chose to.

The second point is that the whole premise and rational for Brexit (by hardened Brexiteers) was to break away from EU influence and strike their own trade deals. By accepting the SM and CU then Brexit would have been worth nothing (for them) and would have negated any supposed purpose even tho it abided by the terms of the referendum.

So we are back to squaring the circle. You can't get away from the fact that lies had to be told to get Brexit over the line. The lie being we can have our cake and eat it.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by IMHAL

[byron78]

Our entire car manufacturing industry is apparently "on the brink". 

[OnionTerror]

16 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Our entire car manufacturing industry is apparently "on the brink". 

It seems as if Patrick Minford was right all along..

[slawek]

NI attitude towards NIP. Only around 20% is against it. 

Many other stats concerning NI and Scotland.

 

[Bob8]

14 hours ago, IMHAL said:

The fact is the circle could never be squared. It is a fact that if the Uk left the EU then it would become a 3rd coutry and that would have implications for NI and the GFA. It was not a 'negotiating position'. It was just a fact.

...

Yes. It is like demanding to leave a house without going outside and blaming other people for it not being possible.

[dugsbody]

On 27/05/2022 at 17:36, 14stFlyer said:

So we come back to the Hotel California. The EU negotiating stance from day 1 has meant that the U.K. can check out of the EU, but it can never leave with sovereignty (intact with Northern Ireland at least).  

That isn't a negotiating stance, it is simply how the treaties of the EU work.

Btw, the UK had sovereignty in the EU, so your last sentence is misleading.

[rollover]

Boris Johnson to reportedly bring back imperial measurements

Move is an apparent attempt to win support from Brexit voters in seats Tories fear losing.

Boris Johnson will reportedly announce the return of imperial measurements to mark the Queen’s platinum jubilee, in an apparent attempt to garner support among Brexiter voters in battleground seats that the Conservatives are in danger of losing.

Guardian

[dpg50000]

45 minutes ago, rollover said:

Boris Johnson to reportedly bring back imperial measurements

Move is an apparent attempt to win support from Brexit voters in seats Tories fear losing.

Boris Johnson will reportedly announce the return of imperial measurements to mark the Queen’s platinum jubilee, in an apparent attempt to garner support among Brexiter voters in battleground seats that the Conservatives are in danger of losing.

Guardian

Is it April 1st already? Like that's the major issue our crumbling economy faces.... I hope no voter is stupid enough to vote for them on the back of this.