Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Peter Hun]

Please don't use Iceland as any sort of example for .. anything.

The country is entirely fabricated. For instance did any of these 'bankers' actually spend time in a  confined place ? We any of the MP's jailed (all were effectively employed by the banks, up to the President)? 

Iceland is a Soviet command economy run by a mafia family, any fact, statistic is probably fabricated.

[rollover]

How to get Brexit out of you.
 

Quote

 

‘Brexfit’ is the new workout that lets you punch Boris Johnson in the face

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/?ito=cbshare

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by rollover

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

Please don't use Iceland as any sort of example for .. anything.

The country is entirely fabricated. For instance did any of these 'bankers' actually spend time in a  confined place ? We any of the MP's jailed (all were effectively employed by the banks, up to the President)? 

Iceland is a Soviet command economy run by a mafia family, any fact, statistic is probably fabricated.

I've no idea how these individuals served their time. It's the principle of justice being seen to be done that I'm arguing for: The Icelandic criminal justice system has established their guilt as a matter of historical record. Manifestly, this isn't the case for the US or the UK.

 

[Bruce Banner]

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/210294-brexit-what-happens-next-thread-multiple-merged-threads/&do=findComment&comment=1103500633

At least one person agrees with me..

No-deal Brexit could turn UK into 'a diminished and inward-looking little England', warns Hammond

He said that claims a no-deal Brexit would be positive were “absurd”, and called Johnson’s pledge to bin the backstop “wrecking”.

1 hour ago 9,892 Views  13 Comments

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Philip Hammond leaves 11 Downing Street in Westminster, London.

Image: Dominic Lipinski

THE FORMER UK Chancellor Philip Hammond has made a number of warnings about the risks of a no-deal Brexit, calling claims that the UK would be better off financially in a no-deal Brexit “absurd”. 

Writing in The Times today, Hammond also chastised Johnson for “the move from demanding changes to the backstop to demanding its total removal”, which he called “a pivot from a tough negotiating stance to a wrecking one”.

Hammond, who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer from 2016, resigned from Cabinet upon Boris Johnson’s ascent to the office of Prime Minister. He cited concerns over a no-deal Brexit as the reason for his resignation, saying that the “headroom” built into public finances for Brexit could only be used if there was a Brexit deal.

The House of Commons has rejected the current Brexit deal, the Withdrawal Agreement, on three separate occasions. Despite the fact that Boris Johnson voted for the deal on 29 March, he’s vowed to get a better deal by pledging to “scrap the backstop”.

[zugzwang]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/210294-brexit-what-happens-next-thread-multiple-merged-threads/&do=findComment&comment=1103500633

At least one person agrees with me..

No-deal Brexit could turn UK into 'a diminished and inward-looking little England', warns Hammond

He said that claims a no-deal Brexit would be positive were “absurd”, and called Johnson’s pledge to bin the backstop “wrecking”.

1 hour ago 9,892 Views  13 Comments

 Share8  Tweet  Email

Philip Hammond leaves 11 Downing Street in Westminster, London.

Image: Dominic Lipinski

 

Hammond sounded very confident about being able to thwart Cummings' Breitbartian agenda before Oct 31st on R4 this morning.

Claimed a no deal Brexit was just as much a betrayal of the referendum vote as not leaving at all.

 

[kzb]

10 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Iceland managed to jail 73 bankers and CEOs for crimes committed or commissioned in the run-up to 2008.

In the US and the UK not a single banking executive has been imprisoned for his role in the financial crisis.

In 2015, the UK's Financial Conduct Authority quietly shelved plans for an enquiry into the culture, pay and behaviour of staff in banking...

Why after forty years of this shit people keep wanting more of the same is an incomprehensible mystery to me.

Because they'd all have to get proper jobs without it.

[kzb]

14 hours ago, Dorkins said:

Yes I know how the Brexit millenarian cult works: after Brexit, all will be made good (don't ask how). I just don't believe it. Brexit seems to be putting HPI and banker loving swamp creatures in charge. No chance of house prices being allowed to crash and the banks' failed lending being marked zero under a Johnson/Rees-Mogg/Raab/Javid/Farage government.

Same with the Trumpian revolution. Number of swamps drained to date = zero. If anything the swamp has been topped up and a few chickens thrown in in the form of tax cuts for the already-wealthy funded by increasing the deficit. If there is no plan for how the system will be reformed then it won't be.

Who is it the swamp creatures really hate? It starts with a C and ends with orbyn. I think the swamp creatures would be absolutely fine with a Johnson-Farage coalition government, plenty of old money represented there so no threat to the status quo.

Let's have a Treasury forecast for a Corbyn government.  "Nobody voted to be poorer".  In fact dispense with the elections, where stupid people vote, and just go with the computer model.

[zugzwang]

John McDonnell now publicly defending Spreadsheet Phil against Tory smears!!

Quote

Johnson’s advisers have said “Everyone knows that the ex-chancellor’s real objective was to cancel the referendum result.”

Actually this is untrue. I was in the cross party negotiations & Hammond worked desperately hard to secure a deal that might carry.

 

[zugzwang]

10 minutes ago, kzb said:

Let's have a Treasury forecast for a Corbyn government.  "Nobody voted to be poorer".  In fact dispense with the elections, where stupid people vote, and just go with the computer model.

But a vote for a Corbyn govt would be a vote to be richer on average rather than poorer. A vote to save the economy rather than destroy it.

A vote, in fact, to reverse this country's seemingly inexorable slide into bankruptcy and sovereign debt default.

[Riedquat]

11 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

But a vote for a Corbyn govt would be a vote to be richer on average rather than poorer. A vote to save the economy rather than destroy it.

A vote, in fact, to reverse this country's seemingly inexorable slide into bankruptcy and sovereign debt default.

So the Corbynistas would claim. But let the model do its work and make the decision for you! The modern trend is to remove as much decision-making and responsibility from human beings after all.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Riedquat

[kzb]

42 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

But a vote for a Corbyn govt would be a vote to be richer on average rather than poorer. A vote to save the economy rather than destroy it.

A vote, in fact, to reverse this country's seemingly inexorable slide into bankruptcy and sovereign debt default.

That's just your opinion.  Your and my opinions are not relevant. 

Put the policies into a computer model of the economy and tell us the result. 

[kzb]

34 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

So the Corbynistas would claim. But let the model do its work and make the decision for you! The modern trend is to remove as much decision-making and responsibility from human beings after all.

Yes we want the same criteria applied to GEs as to the referendum.

I wonder if zugzwang realises that people who have never been to university are allowed to vote in general elections?

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, kzb said:

Let's have a Treasury forecast for a Corbyn government.  "Nobody voted to be poorer".  In fact dispense with the elections, where stupid people vote, and just go with the computer model.

That's your defence for Brexit putting obvious HPI and banker-loving swamp creatures in charge? "Let's have a Treasury forecast for a Corbyn government"? What happened to needing to do something radical to break trends?

[kzb]

3 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

That's your defence for Brexit putting obvious HPI and banker-loving swamp creatures in charge? "Let's have a Treasury forecast for a Corbyn government"? What happened to needing to do something radical to break trends?

The same people who are against Brexit want a Corbyn government.  A reason for their being against Brexit is computer models of the economy.  How many more times round this circle shall we go?

[Dorkins]

2 minutes ago, kzb said:

The same people who are against Brexit want a Corbyn government.  A reason for their being against Brexit is computer models of the economy.  How many more times round this circle shall we go?

I have no idea where you are going with this computer models of the economy thing. In my opinion macroeconomic forecasts are about as factual as a tip in the 14.40 at Chesterfield from some guy in a pub.

What is factual is that people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Javid, Farage etc come out to bat for the UK financial sector at every opportunity. In my opinion the UK's financial sector has made a lot of dumb loans on residential property that need to be defaulted on in order for house prices to return to the level at which below median income households can buy. Based on their actions and statements to date I do not believe that Johnson etc will allow this to happen. I don't know if Corbyn's Labour will either, but they might.

[kzb]

10 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

I have no idea where you are going with this computer models of the economy thing. In my opinion macroeconomic forecasts are about as factual as a tip in the 14.40 at Chesterfield from some guy in a pub.

What is factual is that people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Javid, Farage etc come out to bat for the UK financial sector at every opportunity. In my opinion the UK's financial sector has made a lot of dumb loans on residential property that need to be defaulted on in order for house prices to return to the level at which below median income households can buy. Based on their actions and statements to date I do not believe that Johnson etc will allow this to happen. I don't know if Corbyn's Labour will either, but they might.

OK with sentence 2 we are on the same wavelength.  But not with your fellow remainers on here.

2nd para,  they'll all do as they're told.  Otherwise we are Bulgaria and even JC knows this.

 

[Dorkins]

13 minutes ago, kzb said:

OK with sentence 2 we are on the same wavelength.  But not with your fellow remainers on here.

2nd para,  they'll all do as they're told.  Otherwise we are Bulgaria and even JC knows this.

I'm pretty sick of being labelled on this thread. How about we drop the tribal crap and just talk to each other as individuals with individual points of view, which is what we all actually are?

I can see you have given up hope that democratically elected governments will ever stand up to the institutions which happen to comprise the financial sector at present in order to protect the best interests of their citizens. I have not. I also don't believe that we will be Bulgaria/Venezuela/the USSR if financial institutions are forced to live with the consequences of their own actions. Indeed I think governments not forcing that to happen is what already has and will continue to harm the average person. Take back control, right?

Edited August 14, 2019 by Dorkins

[PeanutButter]

 

 

[Chunketh]

39 minutes ago, kzb said:

The same people who are against Brexit want a Corbyn government.  A reason for their being against Brexit is computer models of the economy.  How many more times round this circle shall we go?

Untrue and untrue.

There are plenty of folk I know that are remainers and hate Corbyn. I was a natural lib dem but used to support Labor locally, I wont until he is gone and is replaced with someone electable.

There are plenty of folk I know that are remainers and are against brexit because they like being members of the EU. Myself included.

I am sure you can find a few that do satisfy your sweeping generalisation, but it isn't everyone. It's also interesting that the usual "80% of people voted for a party that supports Brexit" argument doesn't fit with this either.

[Riedquat]

20 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

There are plenty of folk I know that are remainers and are against brexit because they like being members of the EU. Myself included.

The whole discussion would be so much more civilised if most people recognised that that's what it really came down to - some people happen to like the EU, some don't. Unfortunately there are too many who insist that people who don't like what they like must be wrong.

[Chunketh]

12 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

The whole discussion would be so much more civilised if most people recognised that that's what it really came down to - some people happen to like the EU, some don't. Unfortunately there are too many who insist that people who don't like what they like must be wrong.

Agreed. It's not for everyone.

I place a lot less emphasis on sovereignty because I simply don't care about it. Most politicians are either useless or criminally corrupt, so why would I care where the power really resides?!  I know others feel differently about it and that's fine.

Other than that, yes it's economics. You don't need to be a genius to see that having no trade deals will be pretty dire in the short term and that with our utter desperation to remedy the situation we will get bent over. It's partially linked to the first point in that our inept / corrupt politicians don't really serve us, so will sell us down the river. Yes we can vote them out but the damage will already be done.

[rollover]

BJ is running out of breath, excuses and lies for all occasions. And the Brexit blame game must go on

 

Quote

 

Johnson accuses MPs and EU of 'terrible collaboration' over Brexit

Despite the prime minister previously saying the chances of crashing out of the EU were “a million to one” given goodwill on both sides.

Speaking live on Facebook, where he answered pre-selected questions from members of the public, Johnson appeared to be rehearsing an election campaign argument that the EU and pro-remain MPs will be to blame if there is no deal.

“The awful thing is the longer that goes on, the more likely it is of course that we will be forced to leave with a no-deal Brexit.

“That’s not what I want, it’s not what we’re aiming ......

In reality, it is Johnson who is refusing to sit down for talks on a deal with the EU ......

Guardian

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by rollover

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

The whole discussion would be so much more civilised if most people recognised that that's what it really came down to - some people happen to like the EU, some don't. Unfortunately there are too many who insist that people who don't like what they like must be wrong.

I have to jump in again and say I have consistently seen Brexit as a scam by some very unsavoury people. To enrich themselves at our expense. I've argued against doing any kind of deal with the USA as it's clear it's detrimental for the vast majority of people here. I've argued against leaving our biggest export block. I've argued against the unnecessary cost of Brexit. I've argued against the damage to the UK's reputation abroad. I've argued there is no vision for the UK post Brexit.

I've argued the problem is here - not anywhere else. That Brexit will do feck-all except make an existing decline much, much faster as there has been no changing of the chocolate soldiers up top. Just shinier wrapping around a shittier product.

Until leavers drop their slave-like admiration of the Brexit cheerleaders and admit these people are just full of shit, either useless or devious connivers - then it will be business as usual after Brexit, but worse.

Notice I have not mentioned the EU once (until now).

[dugsbody]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

BJ is running out of breath, excuses and lies for all occasions. And the Brexit blame game must go on

Playing out exactly as I hoped it would. Brexiters of course don't care, they just keep moving the goalposts.

We went from

"Europe needs us, easiest trade deal in history, nothing will change"

to

"Europe needs us, nothing will change, just have the wrong people in charge"

to

"We always wanted to crash out with no deal, it's what we voted for, Boris is king".

In the moment I didn't expect anything else from brexit supporters but history will record it and in the cold light of day these charlatans will be known for what they are.

[Riedquat]

59 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I've argued the problem is here - not anywhere else. That Brexit will do feck-all except make an existing decline much, much faster as there has been no changing of the chocolate soldiers up top. Just shinier wrapping around a shittier product.

Until leavers drop their slave-like admiration of the Brexit cheerleaders and admit these people are just full of shit, either useless or devious connivers - then it will be business as usual after Brexit, but worse.

Clearly I disagree that Brexit will make the decline much faster, when it's disturbing the system under which the current sh1t has grown and thrived.

You frequently equate Brexit with domestic issues and in doing so imply that Leavers think Brexit is a silver bullet to solve all our problems. I've pointed out very often that our own internal problems, many of which are under our control still, are bigger and need sorting but I've also pointed out how that in no way changes my view about Brexit, because that's another issue. Brexit is talked about the most in this particular thread because that's what this thread's for but I think it may be giving you a bit of observation bias when it comes to making conclusions about peoples' overall opinions of the world.

There is no slave-like admiration of Brexit cheerleaders amongst Leavers. This is another mistake you keep repeating, whilst ignoring the elephant in the room of the types of people high among the Remainers - the likes of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, those who like the current system very much and have used it to bring the UK to where it is now.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Riedquat