THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD

[timebandit]

keeptalkinggreece

The Troika apparently puts pressure on the banks to start foreclosures by the beginning of upcoming year and get rid of thousands of “bad loans” and real estate properties and mortgages. Target? To “drop prices in the Greek real estate market”. And for the shake of the creditors’ rescue, I would add.

According to daily TA NEA, the country’s lenders, the Troika, puts pressure on the banks to lift the ban on auctions even for small amounts with the aim to drop the prices in the Greek real estate market.

Currently there is a ban on auctions for properties with a debt of up to 200,000 euro. The ban expires at the end of 2012 and the Troika reportedly does not want to allow extension of the ban. Should the Troika insist on auctioning, properties of all kinds, sizes and values could and would come under the hammer already at the beginning of 2013.

Such a development is expected not only to kick property owners out of their homes but also to trigger a free fall in the value of properties as auctions start with a low first price.

Renting Instead of Repaying Loan

Apparently banks try to avoid such a property doomsday development as their property portofolios would sharply lose in value. Accorcing to TA NEA they work out two scenarios that enable some less painful solutions to property owners without money to repay their loans:

1) One scenario is based on the UK model, that predicts increase of the maximum loan term from 40 years – today- to 99 years. In this way, the loan repayment rate is reduced to the level one would pay for renting a property of equal value. Banks are reportedly plan to give debtors the option to reduce the duration of the loan or to repay earlier without penalty, should their economic situation improve.

2) Banks will take ownership of the property and allow original owners to stay inside while paying rent to the bank. A rent that can be even lower than the average rent, in a form of leasing.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

In Greece at the moment, with Greek family, not just on holiday.

The Germans better kick the Greeks out of the EU, not just the Euro, pronto. It seems every man and his dog under the age of 30 is talking about moving to Germany to look for work. Youth unemployment is over 50% here.

Doing my bit to spread the word about the generosity of the British benefits system.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9471282/Debt-crisis-live.html

These figures won't make particularly good reading for eurozone leaders returning from their holidays. Greece's gross domestic product shrank 6.2pc year-on-year in the second quarter of 2012, based on first estimates. That is slightly softer than the 6.5pc slump suffered in the first quarter.

Got to be good news for the debt/gdp ratio's....

[Snafu]

I have had enough. I demand at least on country to leave the Euro before end of August.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/15/eurozone-crisis-greece-austerity-programme-delay

Greek prime minister Antonis Samaras is expected to present his case for Greece's financial programme to be relaxed next Friday, August 24, to Angela Merkel in Berlin (see 7.53am for details of his proposal)

He is then due in Paris the next day for talks with Francois Hollande.

Samaras was due to warm up for his Merkel meeting by hosting Luxembourg prime minister, Jean-Claude Juncker, in Athens on Wednesday, August 22.

Are these programmes that haven't yet been implemented or the ones that have theoretically been implemented but haven't?

[pl1]

One for the diary: Greek PM to meet Merkel, cap-in-hand by the sounds of it (what other way is there for him?) this comming Thursday to ask for the austerity package to be spread over four years instead of two. Could be a market flashpoint:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-08-16/news/33232980_1_minister-antonis-samaras-installment-of-bailout-loans-meetings-next-week

[interestrateripoff]

One for the diary: Greek PM to meet Merkel, cap-in-hand by the sounds of it (what other way is there for him?) this comming Thursday to ask for the austerity package to be spread over four years instead of two. Could be a market flashpoint:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-08-16/news/33232980_1_minister-antonis-samaras-installment-of-bailout-loans-meetings-next-week

Is he aiming to double up at every meeting?

[Ash4781]

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/monetary/monetary.aspx

We only have data until June but Greek M3 money at -17.9%. Even M1 money is at -17.3%. It's getting worse.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Not sure if this deserves a thread by itself or not but it's relevant here.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/08/17/1123391/greece-portugal-and-spain-really-have-benefitted-most-from-the-euro/

What stand out are Greece, Portugal and Spain. These economies have benefited from increased standards of living under the Euro (at least, until 2010), as nominal incomes have overcome inflation pressures. There has also been a concentration on improving the lot of the lower income groups in these societies.

[Tankus]

not a peep in the general media but this weeks big greek bond maturity

The Greek government sold over €4 billion worth of three month bills on Tuesday, which analysts say will be used to repay €3.2 billion in bonds held by the European Central Bank that mature on August 20.

Greek banks were the main buyers at Tuesday's auction, because most outside investors are still unwilling to lend money to Athens. Greece avoids default ... for now - Aug. 17, 2012

the bonds were auctioned to the Greek banks , who paid for it by loaning freshly printed money at 1% from the CEB .....the bonds were primarily owned by the German banks .... and then trouser the 3% difference

Enron would be proud

"It was convenient to have this arrangement coming to fruition," said Papadimitriou.

Ill bet ....barely a squeak in the European media

aug 14th

Greece raised 4.063 billion euros ($5 billion) in a sale of three-month treasury bills on Tuesday, paying a modestly higher rate of 4.43 percent, the public debt management agency said.

The extraordinarily large sale should help the Greek government avoid a cash crunch, according to a finance ministry source, as it faces redemption of a 3.2-billion-euro bond held by the ECB which expires on August 20 and waits the next instalment of its EU-IMF bailout package

so it all hits the fan again in 3 months ...just in time for another greek bond maturity of €2.2bn in dec Edited August 19, 2012 by Tankus

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9491442/Greece-needs-room-to-breathe-on-austerity-targets-says-Samaras.html

Mr Samaras said that while Greece did not require a third bail-out and would "fulfill all requirements" made by its international creditors, it needed more time to implement austerity measures.

"Let me be very clear: We require no additional money," he told German daily Bild in an interview.

"All we want is a little room to breathe, to get the economy going and to increase government revenues. More time does not automatically mean more money."

Mr Samaras will meet Eurogroup leader Jean-Claude Juncker in Athens later today, where he is expected to present his case for a two-year extension in order to meet bail-out targets set by the EU and International Monetary Fund.

He told Bild that a Greek exit from the eurozone would be "a nightmare" which would lead to "at least" another five years of recession. Mr Samaras also said that it could signal the end of democracy in Greece and lead to a situation similar to the Weimar Republic.

So to translate, Greece needs a 3rd bailout, it needs more money urgently, govt revenues are collapsing and the only way out is for us to leave the Euro will Germany pay for an orderly transition.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9493321/Debt-crisis-Athens-in-last-chance-to-meet-its-bail-out-terms-says-Jean-Claude-Juncker.html

The head of the eurogroup emerged from a highly-anticipated meeting with Antonis Samaras, Greece’s prime minister, only to signal that there would be no leniency for Greece from Brussels. “The ball is in the Greeks’ court”, said Mr Juncker, arguing that Greece’s real problem was a “credibility crisis” which could be resolved if it stuck to the bail-out terms and implemented all the planned reforms.

Hours earlier Mr Samaras had pleaded for a “little room to breathe” in the form of an extension of the austerity deadlines set by Greece’s bail-out. “Let me be very clear,” he told reporters. “We require no additional money. All we want is a little room to breathe, to get the economy going and to increase government revenues. More time does not automatically mean more money.” Mr Samaras even said he would “guarantee personally” that the rescue funds given to Greece would be repaid.

The game of chicken commences who blinks first.

[pl1]

Merkel expexted to say "Nein!" to extension to Greek bailout terms later on tonight.

Grexit on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/merkel-expected-to-reject-french-demands-to-allow-greece-more-time-over-bailout-conditions-8076648.html

Ms Merkel is facing an election next year and mounting opposition to any softening of Germany's hard line on the issue of Greek bailout funding from within her own coalition government. She has stressed that she will not budge on the question of Athens abiding by strict budgetary discipline.

[Ash4781]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9498999/Hollande-Greece-must-stay-in-the-eurozone.html

Francois Hollande, the French president, said that Greece must stay in the eurozone but must first prove it is determined to overhaul its economy so Europe can do its part and move on from the debt crisis.

Haha game's back on (massive capital outflows from the periphery to the core, and also outside). The ECB will need to keep plugging the holes to stop banks at the periphery collapsing.The Euro's toast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/13/twelve_month.stm

edit: This is not advice!

Edited August 25, 2012 by Ash4781

[billybong]

Francois Hollande, the French president, said that Greece must stay in the eurozone but must first prove it is determined to overhaul its economy so Europe can do its part and move on from the debt crisis.

Sorted.

It just needed someone new with fresh ideas to come up with the solution.

[frederico]

Sorted.

It just needed someone new with fresh ideas to come up with the solution.

these guys are amazing, just when you think they've run out of idea's, BLAM, they pull this out of the bag.

[happy_renting]

these guys are amazing, just when you think they've run out of idea's, BLAM, they pull this out of the bag.

There's been a debt crisis.

Solution: Get over it and move on.

Good to know they have the problem licked.

[winkie]

More Time.

[Democorruptcy]

Francois Hollande, the French president, said that Greece must stay in the eurozone but must first prove it is determined to overhaul its economy so Europe can do its part and move on from the debt crisis.

What does he have in mind for Greece? Lowering their pension age and employing an extra 60,000 teachers?

[Ash4781]

these guys are amazing, just when you think they've run out of idea's, BLAM, they pull this out of the bag.

I assume the lunches are really good at these meetings.

[dances with sheeple]

these guys are amazing, just when you think they've run out of idea's, BLAM, they pull this out of the bag.

[dryrot]

What does he have in mind for Greece? Lowering their pension age and employing an extra 60,000 teachers?

in greeces case, it would be raising the pension age (from 50 to Hollandes propsed 60)?

[thecrashingisles]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9491442/Greece-needs-room-to-breathe-on-austerity-targets-says-Samaras.html

So to translate, Greece needs a 3rd bailout, it needs more money urgently, govt revenues are collapsing and the only way out is for us to leave the Euro will Germany pay for an orderly transition.

To quote Julia Gillard - "he's just a big Greek ******** artist."

Edited August 26, 2012 by thecrashingisles

[Ash4781]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/business/global/german-central-banker-sees-danger-in-euro-rescue-plan.html

FRANKFURT — The president of the German central bank said in an interview published Sunday that he remained staunchly opposed to government bond purchases by the European Central Bank, a position that could make it more difficult to deploy a weapon many economists believe is essential to saving the euro.

Jens Weidmann, the president of the Bundesbank, Germany’s central bank, said in an interview with the newsmagazine Der Spiegel that such bond purchases would be equivalent to printing money to finance governments and that he was against them.

“We should not underestimate the danger,” he said. “Central bank financing can be as addictive as a drug.”

well the ECB would need to be recapitalised at some point. The Bundedbank is pissed.

Still though doesn't seem to have much influence over the ECB (only one vote according to the article).

Edited August 26, 2012 by Ash4781

[Errol]

Summer Is Over With A Bang As Bomb Explodes Outside Greek Bank

A makeshift bomb exploded outside a National Bank of Greece branch in Athens early on Tuesday, causing minor damage but no injuries, police said. Windows were smashed and four parked cars suffered minor damage in the blast, which took place about 4 a.m (0100 GMT) in the western suburb of Ilion.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/summer-over-bang-bomb-explodes-outside-greek-bank