THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD

[Errol]

http://maxkeiser.com/

[billybong]

Some Greek female was saying on the radio yesterday that there was going to be an ambitious tax and spend programme.

Now there's ambition for you. They seem all mixed up with on one hand austerity and on the other hand spending. Probably they'll be taxing the little folk and then giving the money to the rich to spend - a bit like the UK.

[northwestsmith2]

So most Greeks voted for anti-austerity parties but the Euro grey suits are rejoicing that a pro Euro party won with a third of the votes?

This will not end well.

6 months is the current bet before they leave the Euro.

3 Greek elections before 2013 will only get 6/5 odds.

Anyone remember this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-08/greek-government-mandate-passes-to-syriza-after-samaras-fails.html

May 8, 2012 4:22 PM GMT

Greece’s Syriza party leader Alexis Tsipras, charged with forming a government, told his pro-bailout counterparts they must renounce support for the European Union- led rescue if there is to be any chance of forging a coalition.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article3543275.ece

Athens, June 18, 2012

The SYRIZA leader told Samaras not to waste time in forming a broad coalition government and to make good on his pledge to renegotiate the bailout agreement, saying that cutting salaries and pensions further would be “disastrous for the country.” Mr. Samaras said he would seek to involve as many parties as possible to “try to form a long-term national unity government,” after failing to win enough seats in parliament to govern alone.

.....

PASOK is the most obvious coalition partner for New Democracy, but Socialist leader Evangelos Venizelos has said he would prefer a government of “shared responsibility,” suggesting he would like SYRIZA to join a unity administration.

Edited June 18, 2012 by northwestsmith2

[Chuffy Chuffnell]

He was Italian.

Yes, I know, but he meets the description given by Tulip - indeed he was who Tulip was thinking of. Sums up Mediterranean military types.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

I would have thought the most intelligent response the German Leader could have given in this regard should have been withheld until after the Greeks had managed to form a Government.

This woman knows how to put backs up does she not!!

I anticipate a new issue of Heil Merkel Waffen SS posters are already at the printers........

It doesn't matter. She doesn't have to give the Greeks anything else, and the party that "won" has enough seats if they team up with the other pro-bailout party to sell Greece down the river without the need of the other parties.

They would LIKE the help of the other parties, as it would help keep the military onside.

[DEATH]

Why can't everyone just behave as adults and reasonable human beings in all this, like every generation paying it's own way, it's own debts

etc, save for a generation involved in a world war or a threat to the country's survival due to external forces.

Tapered taxes on income/assets depending on age. Liability depending on debt racked up by age.

I would exempt all under 18s from any debt racked up before they became adults.

I have heard a lot of boomers use the excuse that they paid the pensions of a previous generation so that gives them the right to screw the

next generation. Following that logic, if someone stole my lcd telly I have the moral right to go into next door and take theirs! Being screwed

by a generation doesn't give you the right to screw the next one!

We keep food and land under lock and key in this country so I believe we have a moral duty to house and feed everyone, even if they don't want

to work for it. Either that or give them some land to farm and build their house on.

Does anyone here support aristocrat's rights to fence of millions of acres because one of their distant ancestors fenced off the land and held a

sword to anyone's throat who tried to claim it as their own or just subsist upon it?

[the shaping machine]

Following that logic, if someone stole my lcd telly I have the moral right to go into next door and take theirs! Being screwed

by a generation doesn't give you the right to screw the next one!

Does anyone here support aristocrat's rights to fence of millions of acres because one of their distant ancestors fenced off the land and held a sword to anyone's throat who tried to claim it as their own or just subsist upon it?

These two sentences conflict...

[nmarks]

These two sentences conflict...

There's a big difference between confiscating commonplace appliances and confiscating common.

If you know any factories that mass produce land let us know, would ya? Ta.

Edited June 18, 2012 by nmarks

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9339904/Debt-crisis-Greek-government-will-be-forced-to-seek-third-bail-out.html

Greece is expected to ask for a third international bail-out agreement as soon as a government is formed, ramping up the pressure on Germany and Brussels to back the eurozone or break it.

Genius, is this how they plan to form a coalition?

[the shaping machine]

There's a big difference between confiscating commonplace appliances and confiscating common.

Why? Presumably you would quite like to steal one but not the other?

If you know any factories that mass produce land let us know, would ya? Ta.

If this were a factor then all works of art should be nationalised on the artist's death.

Edited June 18, 2012 by the shaping machine

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

As my post demonstrates - younger Greeks below 55 were brave!

PS Anyone bored of the nauseating mainstream media propaganda i.e. isn't this good news for the Greeks? Really - I would love to see the posh Sloane woman doing the Sky paper review tonight seeing some austerity as she looks like she could do with a few weeks without food!

Syria, it ain't

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-athens-is-like-right-now-2012-6

[sammysnake]

Death by a thousand cuts?

To even suggest renegotiation at this stage reflects an admission that Greece has no intention of paying anything back.

That is why the markets care very little for lip service, the reality is more indecision. The sooner the Greeks admit that to the Germans, and the rest of the EU the better.

Edited June 18, 2012 by sammysnake

[frederico]

Death by a thousand cuts?

To even suggest renegotiation at this stage reflects an admission that Greece has no intention of paying anything back.

That is why the markets care very little for lip service, the reality is more indecision. The sooner the Greeks admit that to the Germans, and the rest of the EU the better.

Do you really think anyone else is going to pay anyone back?

[sammysnake]

Do you really think anyone else is going to pay anyone back?

Surely that's the intention?

[TheCountOfNowhere]

When Will we get our austerity?

All we get is more spending of made up money and inflation. this has had no effect on them that's caused the problems, the bankers and the public sector.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

What's happening in Greece...it's all gone very very quiet !!!

[Steppenpig]

They probably need a few days to make the voting records agree to the result that their European masters demanded.

(Sorry, cheap joke, I don't really believe it. Yet. But that time could come)

[dances with sheeple]

What's happening in Greece...it's all gone very very quiet !!!

Government may be formed later today according to bbc/sky. Guy on bloomberg saying the markets would have prefered a Greek exit, as it would have forced leaders to act. Now they have a jolly to Mexico,and can bumble along for another little while letting the problem just get bigger and bigger?

Edited June 19, 2012 by dances with sheeple

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Government may be formed later today according to bbc/sky. Guy on bloomberg saying the markets would have prefered a Greek exit, as it would have forced leaders to act. Now they have a jolly to Mexico,and can bumble along for another little while letting the problem just get bigger and bigger?

The Greek problem isn't getting any bigger and is fairly well quantified. Greek politician on ITN IRRC said Greece has enough cash to last another month, so no rush there.

Germans aren't going to take the trouble to bail out Greece only to have to fold when the Spanish roll up asking for 1/2 billion euros. So my guess is the Germans are just going to wait to find out how bad the Spanish problem is before they decide to do anything about Greece, and it looks like they have at least a month to find out.

The big unknown of course is Italy. Although the Spanish situation is becoming clearer, the Italian situation is still to some degree unknown. In the same way the Germans don't want to have to bail out the Greeks only to have to fold on the Spanish, they don't want to have to bail out the Spanish only to have to fold on the Italians.

My guess if the Germans do change their opinion on the Greeks it will only be to give them enough cash in the interim to allow them the time to get more clarity on the Italian/Spanish position.

Italy, Spain is the fulcrum.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Government may be formed later today according to bbc/sky. Guy on bloomberg saying the markets would have prefered a Greek exit, as it would have forced leaders to act. Now they have a jolly to Mexico,and can bumble along for another little while letting the problem just get bigger and bigger?

Edit. Dupe.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Gigantic Purple Slug

[dances with sheeple]

The Greek problem isn't getting any bigger and is fairly well quantified. Greek politician on ITN IRRC said Greece has enough cash to last another month, so no rush there.

Germans aren't going to take the trouble to bail out Greece only to have to fold when the Spanish roll up asking for 1/2 billion euros. So my guess is the Germans are just going to wait to find out how bad the Spanish problem is before they decide to do anything about Greece, and it looks like they have at least a month to find out.

The big unknown of course is Italy. Although the Spanish situation is becoming clearer, the Italian situation is still to some degree unknown. In the same way the Germans don't want to have to bail out the Greeks only to have to fold on the Spanish, they don't want to have to bail out the Spanish only to have to fold on the Italians.

My guess if the Germans do change their opinion on the Greeks it will only be to give them enough cash in the interim to allow them the time to get more clarity on the Italian/Spanish position.

Italy, Spain is the fulcrum.

He meant big action V bigger problems with regard to the whole zone, not just Greece, so what you are saying basically. Was it you on bloomberg?

On Greece, what if the public just won`t take the measures any government that forms are going to need to enact, what if they can`t get anything passed in their parliament? A month seems very short then?

I agree that it seems pointless to do any more than basic support for Greece if two much bigger economies are going to tank anyway. At what point does Germany leave the currency union?

Edited June 19, 2012 by dances with sheeple

[interestrateripoff]

The Greek problem isn't getting any bigger and is fairly well quantified. Greek politician on ITN IRRC said Greece has enough cash to last another month, so no rush there.

Germans aren't going to take the trouble to bail out Greece only to have to fold when the Spanish roll up asking for 1/2 billion euros. So my guess is the Germans are just going to wait to find out how bad the Spanish problem is before they decide to do anything about Greece, and it looks like they have at least a month to find out.

The big unknown of course is Italy. Although the Spanish situation is becoming clearer, the Italian situation is still to some degree unknown. In the same way the Germans don't want to have to bail out the Greeks only to have to fold on the Spanish, they don't want to have to bail out the Spanish only to have to fold on the Italians.

My guess if the Germans do change their opinion on the Greeks it will only be to give them enough cash in the interim to allow them the time to get more clarity on the Italian/Spanish position.

Italy, Spain is the fulcrum.

If the Spanish only want €0.5bn thats a bargain lol.

[Rare Bear]

Germany has been gaining trade advantage because the Euro has been keeping down the cost of German exports compared with what they would be if priced in Deutsch Marks. Germany has been making loans to the PIIGS which will never be realisticly be repaid.This has allowed the PIIGS to buy German goods and probably more importantly from the German point of view, held down the value of the Euro. I would reckon that when Germany sees that there is more to loose by making these bad loans then there is to gain from the trade advantage then no more cheques will be written.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

If the Spanish only want €0.5bn thats a bargain lol.

Half a trillion to the Spanish sounds about right to me.

What I haven't figured out yet is why in the same way that the PIIGS are playing chicken with Germany, Germany isn't playing chicken with the rest of the world. Why isn't Merkel going to Obama and saying "this whole things going to go down on your watch, what's it worth for us to stop it?"

The Germans seem to have lost their imagination. The IMF are the people who probably run closest to the Germans in terms of implementing the loans, so why don't the Germans fund an IMF bailout and get the ROW to chip in to save their economies ? The use of the IMF will decouple Germany from making the political decisions and prevent everyone claiming that it is the "evil Germans" who are forcing austerity on them.

Of course the IMF cannot deal with Greece because the economy there is a basket case of cronyism, corruption and non-jobs. But they might be able to do something about Spain and Italy.

[timebandit]

Game changer, if true?

EdConwaySky

G20 sources: Germany poised to allow EFSF & ESM to buy up bonds of troubled euro nations. Big shift in stance from Angela Merkel