THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD

[yellerkat]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/07/greeces-crisis

Sold eventually in 2012 for $10m each.

I wonder what happened to all the employees working for the newly set up company to flog 4 planes?

I did hear a rumour that a disgruntled, about to be made redundant maintenance guy trashed the paper records of all maintenance carried out on the planes.

Without that paper trail, they became effectively worthless - ie the $10m they eventually got.

[interestrateripoff]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/20/uk-ecb-greece-collateral-idUKBRE86J0QE20120720

The European Central Bank turned up the heat on Greece on Friday ahead of a review of its bailout programme, saying it would stop accepting Greek bonds and other collateral used by Greek banks to tap ECB funding, at least until after the review.

The ECB move, which analysts said was aimed at stepping up pressure on Athens to adhere to the commitments of its EU/IMF bailout, will force Greek banks to turn to their national central bank for Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) funds. Those funds will be more expensive than funds available in the ECB's regular liquidity operations.

The ECB said the collateral exclusion was due to the expiration of a temporary 35 billion euro scheme agreed with Greece and euro zone leaders whereby the ECB would continue to accept Greek bonds after they went into default this year.

So the ECB decides to stop accepting worthless 5h1t.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Secret Agent has been on holiday....

http://agentsdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/grass-is-always-greener-wednesday.html

http://agentsdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/last-call-for-gate-13-saturday.html

Dang, should have written a similar missive about the guests on my recent holiday. Several times I had the "I nearly bought that outit from Primani, glad I didn't." line from the wife.

Heading to Greece in a bit, I hear that tales of increased crime and business being poor, anecdotes such as struggling to let out flats (1 bed/250euros pm) in "busy" places etc. My wife always described it as Greece is poor but the Greeks are rich. Literally, not some Winkie metaphor for being rich with life. We shall see how it pans out. We are lucky in the respect her region are more dependent on agriculture and tourism than overt public expenditure, cheap energy is a more obvious issue.

[Bloo Loo]

http://uk.reuters.co...E86J0QE20120720

So the ECB decides to stop accepting worthless 5h1t.

no,it has been worthless for a while, but by accepting it, they pretend to the world that buying greek debt is good because its not worthless, otherwise they wouldbe be buying it......would they?.

they know that if someone buys something, then that something is worth something....mark to market.

they also know that if you cant sell something, you can assign a value to it....mark to model.

therefore, being a central bank they know they can give value to everything they choose...as long as people accept the paper they print.

[winkie]

no,it has been worthless for a while, but by accepting it, they pretend to the world that buying greek debt is good because its not worthless, otherwise they wouldbe be buying it......would they?.

they know that if someone buys something, then that something is worth something....mark to market.

they also know that if you cant sell something, you can assign a value to it....mark to model.

therefore, being a central bank they know they can give value to everything they choose...as long as people accept the paper they print.

Everything is falling into place now.

[OnlyMe]

http://opinions.caduceusx.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9107&sid=2e50114407f522454a67d4334f9e7e07

Spiegel bombshell: The IMF plans to dump Greece

SUNDAY, JULY 22, 2012

German magazine Der Spiegel dropped a bombshell this morning in an article which is for now available only in German. My German is quite decent. Here's the original and my translation:

IWF will Griechenland-Hilfen stoppen (IMF wants to stop Greek help)

Griechenland könnte schon im September pleitegehen. Der Internationale Währungsfonds hat nach Informationen des SPIEGEL der Brüsseler EU-Spitze signalisiert, dass er sich nicht an weiteren Hilfen für das Land beteiligen werde.

Greece could go bankrupt as early as September. Spiegel has obtained information that the IMF told the Brussels leadership it would not make more money available for help to Greece. [..]

Derzeit untersucht die Troika aus EU-Kommission, Europäischer Zentralbank (EZB) und Internationalem Währungsfonds (IWF), wie weit das Land seinen Reformverpflichtungen nachkommt. So viel steht schon jetzt fest: Die Regierung in Athen kann den Schuldenstand des Landes nicht wie vereinbart bis zum Jahr 2020 auf rund 120 Prozent der Jahreswirtschaftsleistung drücken.

At the moment the EC, ECB and IMF troika is investigating to what extent the country lives up to its reform obligations. This much is already certain: the government in Athens will not be able to bring down its debt load to about 120% of GDP by 2020.

[moonriver]

German magazine Der Spiegel dropped a bombshell this morning in an article which is for now available only in German. My German is quite decent. Here's the original and my translation:

Going on from this.., by the way.I was impressed by your German translations skills there .....there is a meeting tomorrow...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-22/greece-back-at-center-of-euro-crisis-as-exit-talk-resurfaces.html

Greece Back at Center of Euro Crisis as Exit Talk Resurfaces

Greece retakes its position at the heart of the European debt crisis this week as its creditors assess how far off course the country is from bailout targets, raising again the specter of its exit from the euro.

Greece’s troika of international creditors -- the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund -- will arrive in Athens tomorrow amid doubts the country will meet its commitments and reluctance among euro-area states to put up more funds should it fail.

If Greece doesn’t fulfill those conditions, then there can be no more payments,” German Vice Chancellor Philipp Roesler told broadcaster ARD yesterday, adding that he is “very skeptical” Greece can be rescued and that the prospect of its exit from the monetary union “has long ago lost its terror.”....

....The IMF, which indicated in March it won’t commit more money to Greece, will make a decision on its next disbursement in late August at the earliest based on the troika’s findings, two fund officials familiar with the situation in recent days.

The Washington-based IMF has signaled to European officials that it will stop paying further rescue aid to Greece, bringing the country closer to insolvency in September, Der Spiegel yesterday cited unidentified European Union officials as saying. It’s “already clear” to the troika that Greece won’t reach the 120 percent target, Spiegel said.

Missing the targets means Greece would need between 10 billion euros and 50 billion euros in additional aid, a potential outcome that the IMF and several unidentified euro- area states are not prepared to accept, Spiegel said. ..

[interestrateripoff]

Going on from this.., by the way.I was impressed by your German translations skills there .....there is a meeting tomorrow...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-22/greece-back-at-center-of-euro-crisis-as-exit-talk-resurfaces.html

Another meeting.... We are all saved....

[OnlyMe]

Going on from this.., by the way.I was impressed by your German translations skills there .....there is a meeting tomorrow...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-22/greece-back-at-center-of-euro-crisis-as-exit-talk-resurfaces.html

Ich wünsche - or someting like that.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9419838/Debt-crisis-live.html

Greece will not receive its next bail-out tranche until September at the earliest, the European Commission has reiterated.

A spokesman said:

The decision on the next disbursement will only be taken once the ongoing review is completed [...] over the last few months, significant delays in programme implementation have occured due to the double parliamentary elections in the spring.

Two Greek government bonds totalling €3.1bn will mature on August 20.

The delay means Athens could be forced to raise money on the debt markets to repay them - at a very high cost.

Or the delay could mean Athens just defaults rather than borrowing money to pay back borrowed money.

[Bloo Loo]

http://www.telegraph...risis-live.html

Or the delay could mean Athens just defaults rather than borrowing money to pay back borrowed money.

or they could let go 1/3 of the civil service.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-and-imf-to-refuse-greece-further-financial-aid-reports-say-a-845860.html

Greece has fallen behind with its budget cuts and is asking lenders for more time to meet the conditions of the 130 billion euro aid package. But that would require fresh help of up to 50 billion euros, SPIEGEL has learned. Neither Berlin nor the IMF are prepared to make that money available.

Is this the English translation of the previous mentioned article?

[dances with sheeple]

Can`t be long until it all unravells now. Can it?

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

or they could let go 1/3 of the civil service.

I've explained before but no-one gets it.

It doesn't work like that.

Sacking people doesn't save money, in fact in the short as they are entitled to redundancy payouts, it costs even more money.

In the long term, those people still need to live. Rent. Bills. Food.

Forcibly reducing wages is never the answer. Reducing COSTS is the answer.

[geezer466]

Germany Says.....Bye Bye Greece...........

19.15 Germany has warned Greece it will probably not be given further bailout payments as it is missing Troika targets.

Philipp Roesler, German Vice Chancellor and Economy Minister:

What's emerging is that Greece will probably not be able to fulfil its conditions. If Greece doesn't fulfil those conditions, then there can be no more payments.

He added that the "horror" of a Greek exit from the euro has faded, raising the prospect of an ejection from the single currency.

[interestrateripoff]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100019006/who-will-hold-the-troika-to-account-for-asphyxiating-greece/

The Troika originally said that Greece' economy would contract by 2.6pc in 2010 under the austerity regime, before recovering with growth of 1.1pc in 2011, and 2.1pc in 2012.

In fact, Greek GDP has been in an unbroken free-fall. It did not grow last year. It contracted a further 6.9pc, and is now expected to shrink 6.7pc this year.

This was entirely predictable – and was predicted by many critics – since Greece faced an IMF-style austerity package without the usual IMF cure of devaluation. The Troika's ideology of "expansionary fiscal contraction" – which the IMF has to its credit since abjured, but the fanatics in charge still swear by – is breaking a whole society on the wheel.

Got to love predictions by "experts" 2012 expected growth of 2.1%, reality contraction of 6.7%. Although with the Greek economy you do wonder how much of it has disappeared underground.

[frederico]

An error of 8.8% GDP is perfectly acceptable from some bloke down the pub.... Oh hang on

[happy_renting]

I've explained before but no-one gets it.

It doesn't work like that.

Sacking people doesn't save money, in fact in the short as they are entitled to redundancy payouts, it costs even more money.

In the long term, those people still need to live. Rent. Bills. Food.

Forcibly reducing wages is never the answer. Reducing COSTS is the answer.

If they are not doing a productive job, they are a cost.

Without wanting to sound trite, they could, if sacked, take up productive employment (in theory).

In the long term, these employees, if kept on, would want pensions.

Redundancy money can be reduced or withheld, though that is a legal manouvre of dubious merit.

The state employing people to do unnecessary work inefficiently is the statist model that has wrecked the economies of many nations - the UK included.

Arguably (almost) all costs ultimately reduce to wages somewhere down the line.

Reducing wages does produce another problem, however - greater social inequality. Those at the top rarely reduce their own wage/ salary/ income.

[Ash4781]

Prime minister is laying down expectations of a deepening recession. Also I guess it means they are after concessions. Default looms

[mfp123]

.

Edited July 24, 2012 by mfp123

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18958606

Greece will suffer a much deeper recession than thought this year, Prime Minister Antonis Samaras has said.

He expects the economy to shrink by 7%, greater than the 5% forecast by the crisis-hit country's central bank.

Looks like all the figures/projections are going to be billions out and the Greeks will need another bailout to make up for the shortfall they didn't predict.

[Deckard]

• GREECE SEEN MISSING EU/IMF DEBT REDUCTION TARGETS, FURTHER DEBT RESTRUCTURING NECESSARY - EU OFFICIALS
  

[Errol]

Of course, all of this was totally unexpected.

[papag]

Of course, all of this was totally unexpected.

One off special circumstances

[plnouparouvpred]

Greece’s parliament has pushed through legislation that in effect grants a tax amnesty to millions of citizens, in a move at odds with organisations overseeing the country’s bail-out. The law will allow the government to collect about €2bn over the next two years, far short of an estimated backlog of unpaid taxes over the last decade of about €35bn.

The tax free minimum for transfer of property, donations from parents, inheritances and donations from first home amounts to 200,000 euro if their acquirer is single, and to 250,000 euro if the property acquirer is married, and it increases by 25,000 euro for each first and second child and by 30,000 euro for the third and each subsequent child. There are also tax concessions for the purchase of a car for families with three children, large families and disadvantaged people.

Taxpayers are called on to report to tax services any property they haven’t yet declared, as they will pay a minimum fine. According to sources, the Finance Ministry is considering a special regulation, according to which payers will declare:

1. Undeclared income.

2. Real estate.

3. Deposits in Greece and abroad.

4. Stocks, mutual funds, etc.

5. Cars.

6. Yachts.

7. Gold and jewellery of high value.

8. Works of art of high value.

After declaring their assets and after paying a small fine, they will be given "amnesty". It is specified that the levy which will be imposed will be "attractive", although not yet defined.

Treasury expects to create a new property register, because it will have all the necessary data. The register will enter into force on 1 January 2013, and the Treasury wants to know what movable or immovable property all taxpayers have in Greece and abroad.