The Conservatives Are Finished - So How Do We Now Get Rid Of Labour

[IMHAL]

14 hours ago, pig said:

Yes get rid of these muppets. We still need the conservatives though.

Conservatives (and the electorate) have been poisoned by UkIP and Brexit. When moderate, the conservatives are not that bad. A mildy swing from left to right and back again is probably the best we can hope for and fairly pragmatic.

The nutters who just want to get rid of 'the establishment' are simply looking to create a power vacuum so that their strong men dictator types have a chance to slip in.  

[regprentice]

18 hours ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said:

Another 5 years of pain, if no change then forget it......

French get 2 years added to retirement age, they start blowing shit up.....

The difference between the UK and the French is at the dinner table/ workplace the French talk all politics. The UK its just forbidden lol......

its not that long ago since the british public would protest and riot. 

I remember the Poll tax riots, there was a real sense of cruelty to the poll tax, in the way it was "tested" on scots, and even though the tax was withdrawn many ended up with criminal records for non payment or rioting. A friend i knew around 1996 blamed his non payment conviction for ruining his life.

That was probably the last time the country played nationality against nationality in the UK. That seems to be the Achilles heel of the UK public. as long as we are all treated equally shittily we dont seem to mind.

The french are more volatile in temperament, theyre more likely to protest, but theyre also far more likely to commit suicide, particularly men. https://www.thelocal.fr/20130910/why-france-has-such-a-high-suicide-rate

That article paints an interesting picture of the french relationship with large state employers and the state  that perhaps helps explain why they behave differently than us. 

[Narvick Devil]

54 minutes ago, regprentice said:

its not that long ago since the british public would protest and riot. 

I remember the Poll tax riots, there was a real sense of cruelty to the poll tax, in the way it was "tested" on scots, and even though the tax was withdrawn many ended up with criminal records for non payment or rioting. A friend i knew around 1996 blamed his non payment conviction for ruining his life.

That was probably the last time the country played nationality against nationality in the UK. That seems to be the Achilles heel of the UK public. as long as we are all treated equally shitty we don't seem to mind.

The french are more volatile in temperament, they're more likely to protest, but they're also far more likely to commit suicide, particularly men. https://www.thelocal.fr/20130910/why-france-has-such-a-high-suicide-rate

That article paints an interesting picture of the french relationship with large state employers and the state  that perhaps helps explain why they behave differently than us. 

I remember the poll tax being implemented here in Scotland a year before the rest of the country, and I remember very clearly that us Scots protested for a full year and there was no response by Government ,it was only when the protests/riots took place in London that the media gave it more serious coverage and government took notice and then implemented change, which was to change the name and a few rules.

"So technically the powers that be" Won !!  And we the British Public(The masses) had another 'New tax' imposed on us(Council tax)  . Or as I like to put it, we "all" are now paying the bills for those that own nearly all the land and property in this country(Don't you watch Panorama) and that includes the Royal Family, "The Firm" as they refer to themselves.

It Worked out okay for them they didn't have to pay the "Rates" anymore which was a huge burden on them, seemingly !,it was extracting their wealth(ahh ! Didums 🥱) . So now the burden is on the rest of us and increasing year ,on year, on year ........... 

[simon99]

Labour will get in, people will get fed up of them after a decade or more when they realize they won't solve all the problems (like last time), then the Tories will get back in, and vice versa.

[FTB-house-hunter]

16 minutes ago, simon99 said:

Labour will get in, people will get fed up of them after a decade or more when they realize they won't solve all the problems (like last time), then the Tories will get back in, and vice versa.

A voice of reason.  Happens all the time, and will continue to happen.  Same suits, different tailors.

[winkie]

Free people with the relevant documentation/passport/s can live anywhere, under anyone......

[simon99]

19 hours ago, FTB-house-hunter said:

A voice of reason.  Happens all the time, and will continue to happen.  Same suits, different tailors.

Apparently that makes me a Tory on here. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by simon99

[pig]

19 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

That's why I differentiate by putting "Tories" in inverted commas. These are not real Conservatives/Tories and have not been since Cameron reneged on his election manifesto.

When every member of the BJ government, the ultimate expression of Tory decline, is consigned to the history books I may consider voting for them again.

To be fair national parties are always going to be composed of  'tribes', not all of whom fit to govern.

In this case its a bit like an individual getting drunk and their worst instincts coming out .

 

[MerchantNavy]

7 hours ago, IMHAL said:

Conservatives (and the electorate) have been poisoned by UkIP and Brexit. When moderate, the conservatives are not that bad. A mildy swing from left to right and back again is probably the best we can hope for and fairly pragmatic.

The nutters who just want to get rid of 'the establishment' are simply looking to create a power vacuum so that their strong men dictator types have a chance to slip in.  

Conspiracy champ is here.

[winkie]

7 hours ago, IMHAL said:

Conservatives (and the electorate) have been poisoned by UkIP and Brexit. When moderate, the conservatives are not that bad. A mildy swing from left to right and back again is probably the best we can hope for and fairly pragmatic.

The nutters who just want to get rid of 'the establishment' are simply looking to create a power vacuum so that their strong men dictator types have a chance to slip in.  

Labour has its eye on winning over the moderate conservatives...... won't work for everyone.

A dictatorship nobody of sane mind would want that either....

Edited May 6, 2023 by winkie

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, pig said:

To be fair national parties are always going to be composed of  'tribes', not all of whom fit to govern.

In this case its a bit like an individual getting drunk and their worst instincts coming out .

I am not sure I fully agree. It is a symptom of FPTP that these tribes have to band together.

With PR we will perhaps have:
- Bonkers and racist (Reform + Nadine and Braverman etc)
- Traditionalist one nation
- Free trade modernists for making the rich richer (Cameron etc)

[IMHAL]

3 hours ago, MerchantNavy said:

Conspiracy champ is here.

I generlaly vote for something, not against something. Those that advocate getting rid of 'the esablishment but don't spell out the alternative policies are usually bad actors. You fall neatly into that camp. 

 

[Bruce Banner]

4 hours ago, pig said:

To be fair national parties are always going to be composed of  'tribes', not all of whom fit to govern.

In this case its a bit like an individual getting drunk and their worst instincts coming out .

 

Apparently, 52 people were arrested today for waving the wrong flag.

[pig]

15 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Apparently, 52 people were arrested today for waving the wrong flag.

Quite troubling the reports of what happened.

[pig]

18 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I am not sure I fully agree. It is a symptom of FPTP that these tribes have to band together.

With PR we will perhaps have:
- Bonkers and racist (Reform + Nadine and Braverman etc)
- Traditionalist one nation
- Free trade modernists for making the rich richer (Cameron etc)

+ VI brokers exploiting whichever works to get influence !

[Narvick Devil]

[Bruce Banner]

28 minutes ago, pig said:

Quite troubling the reports of what happened.

Will they ever learn?

[Joris Bohnson]

21 minutes ago, Narvick Devil said:

To be fair, the analysis that John Curtis did (psephologist) showed that Labour only had around a 9 point lead on the Tories. I expect privately they are concerned that tested at a GE- in an environment 18 months from now when the economic conditions are different/unknown and Liz 'hit the ground' Truss is a distant memory- this would not be enough to secure a working majority.

We could easily see a 2010 or indeed a 2017 situation where no party has anywhere near a working majority and a coalition or 'confidence/supply' arrangement is needed.

So - despite the protestations about Starmer is preparing to be the next PM I expect privately they are worried.

[24gray24]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Will they ever learn?

That's about 3 years old. Clearly wanting a photo op. 

[24gray24]

On 06/05/2023 at 13:00, FTB-house-hunter said:

A voice of reason.  Happens all the time, and will continue to happen.  Same suits, different tailors.

Except that both alternatives increase the national debt. So alternating doesn't work. Debt just gets worse. 

And now we've maxed out already just as the rates are going up. 

So it's sea change now like it or not. 

[Bob8]

2 hours ago, pig said:

+ VI brokers exploiting whichever works to get influence !

True.

[msi]

22 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Apparently, 52 people were arrested today for waving the wrong flag.

 

7 hours ago, pig said:

Quite troubling the reports of what happened.

Very troubling, yet our Tory FrEeDoM Fanboyz seem awfully quiet. 

[msi]

6 hours ago, Joris Bohnson said:

To be fair, the analysis that John Curtis did (psephologist) showed that Labour only had around a 9 point lead on the Tories. I expect privately they are concerned that tested at a GE- in an environment 18 months from now when the economic conditions are different/unknown and Liz 'hit the ground' Truss is a distant memory- this would not be enough to secure a working majority.

We could easily see a 2010 or indeed a 2017 situation where no party has anywhere near a working majority and a coalition or 'confidence/supply' arrangement is needed.

So - despite the protestations about Starmer is preparing to be the next PM I expect privately they are worried.

What we're seeing is the Electorate fed up with the current Parties and current Political Landscape.  They are unwilling to give a mandate for the b*ll*cks for Tory or Labour.

[Warlord]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:38 PM, zugzwang said:

He came within 2,500 votes of winning in 2017. A greater share of the vote than Blair managed in 2005, or Brown in 2010.

 

More like 50k votes spread across dozens of seats.

But yes, you're right if those went to him he would have had a big majority. It's a quirk of first past the post.

 

[Chunketh]

1 hour ago, Warlord said:

More like 50k votes spread across dozens of seats.

But yes, you're right if those went to him he would have had a big majority. It's a quirk of first past the post.

 

Here is hoping for that hung parliament then. We might just get PR and consign both sets of ****wits to the dustbin of history.

Ill take "reform" or whatever the **** they are called this week getting a few seats. Totally worth it and toally right they have representation. They aint getting it any other way.