Bozo wants to hike National Insurance to pay for social care

[Chunketh]

37 minutes ago, kzb said:

They're not getting 8%.

Yes but it didn’t stop them screaming about how “unfair” it was

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

3 hours ago, kzb said:

When I actually see a young person struggling, through no fault of their own, I might worry.  All I see is constant spending.

What constant spending are you seeing in the young? Let me guess, iPhones and avocado toast. Yes?

[adarmo]

10 hours ago, kzb said:

Hang on there, that country claims back the health service costs from the NHS !

As well as that, those pensioners are an economic benefit.  They're not taking jobs, they're not having children, but they are spending their UK pensions in the local economy.

Cripes, you'll get yourself a Nobel Prize out you suggest making everyone retired. Imagine three economic benefits. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😃

[onlooker]

47 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Cripes, you'll get yourself a Nobel Prize out you suggest making everyone retired. Imagine three economic benefits. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😃

Those (younger) British pensioners retired in Spain are a net gain to the Spanish economy and a net loss to ours. When they get old and need subsidized care, they return to the UK and continue to be a net drain on the UK economy.

[Dorkins]

49 minutes ago, onlooker said:

Those (younger) British pensioners retired in Spain are a net gain to the Spanish economy and a net loss to ours. When they get old and need subsidized care, they return to the UK and continue to be a net drain on the UK economy.

Fully retired people consume without producing so in that sense they are always "a net drain" on the economy.

[byron78]

2 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

What constant spending are you seeing in the young? Let me guess, iPhones and avocado toast. Yes?

Rent, mostly...

Edited September 8, 2021 by byron78

[Insane]

25 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Fully retired people consume without producing so in that sense they are always "a net drain" on the economy.

If fully retired people drain from pension funds that they have paid into why are they a net drain on the Economy ?

If someone saved money in a bank deposit account then one day drew it out spending it would they be a net drain on the Economy ? 

 I don't see any difference to someone draining their pension fund to someone draining their deposit account. 

Also what is your definition of producing ? There are many people in jobs drawing salary's who produce what ?  

[kzb]

53 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Fully retired people consume without producing so in that sense they are always "a net drain" on the economy.

Yes but the drain side of the equation is always on the British side.   If they live in Spain that drain is  spent in Spain.  So there you have a bit of poetry to help you understand.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, onlooker said:

Those (younger) British pensioners retired in Spain are a net gain to the Spanish economy and a net loss to ours. When they get old and need subsidized care, they return to the UK and continue to be a net drain on the UK economy.

Yes to sentence #1. Sentence #2, they would be a drain to UK at that stage anyway, wherever they lived.  Spain claims the healthcare costs back from the UK.

Quite likely, the UK still makes a profit.  Sell up in Spain, that means say £120k of assets, spend 18 months in care home being charged a fortune and die.  Trebles all round.

[MARTINX9]

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Fully retired people consume without producing so in that sense they are always "a net drain" on the economy.

Not when another country is paying for their health care and pension - but all their spending is in the country they are living in.

British pensioners living in Spain get their healthcare paid for by the UK government via the S1 (via historic EU/EEA arrangements)  - that arrangement has even continued post Brexit under the social security and health parts of the deal even for those who move there post 1 Jan 2021 if they are able to (that of course includes EU nationals who spent most of their working lives in the UK).

So UK pensioners in Spain (or elsewhere in the EU/EEA) are a huge net benefit to Spain - as they get all of the benefits from their spending but none of the costs associated with supporting elderly people (i.e. the UK pays for their pensions and healthcare)!

Consumers create jobs - and homeowners create work for local tradesmen.

I am assuming you were aware of that - perhaps not?

Edited September 8, 2021 by MARTINX9

[kzb]

2 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

What constant spending are you seeing in the young? Let me guess, iPhones and avocado toast. Yes?

Three holidays abroad per year, two cars, buying dogs, gender reassignment, eyebrow shaping, manicures, eating out, takeaways, drive through "coffee", broadband TV, endless home improvements....it just goes on.

[kzb]

2 hours ago, adarmo said:

Cripes, you'll get yourself a Nobel Prize out you suggest making everyone retired. Imagine three economic benefits. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😃

See MartinX9 post above.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

Three holidays abroad per year, two cars, buying dogs, gender reassignment, eyebrow shaping, manicures, eating out, takeaways, drive through "coffee", broadband TV, endless home improvements....it just goes on.

Yes I see what you mean now. These discretionary purchases should be the preserve of the boomers and their unfunded pension pots. 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

About time these Tory crooks where taken to task over their lies:

 

Sajid Javid Grilled Over Why £350 Million ‘Saved’ By Brexit Isn’t Being Spent On NHS

LBC’s Nick Ferrari badgered Javid for an answer: ‘Where is it? I can’t seem to find it.’

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/sajid-javid-social-care-reforms-brexit_uk_61386835e4b0aac9c01d8273?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

 

[Dorkins]

5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Yes I see what you mean now. These discretionary purchases should be the preserve of the boomers and their unfunded pension pots. 

20something Boomer buys an old house and spends time and money making it nice = hard work and sacrifice to build a life for themselves.

20something GenY/Z buys an old house and spends time and money making it nice = luxury spending, financial incontinence

[GregBowman]

7 hours ago, Insane said:

If fully retired people drain from pension funds that they have paid into why are they a net drain on the Economy ?

If someone saved money in a bank deposit account then one day drew it out spending it would they be a net drain on the Economy ? 

 I don't see any difference to someone draining their pension fund to someone draining their deposit account. 

Also what is your definition of producing ? There are many people in jobs drawing salary's who produce what ?  

We don't always agree but that is spot on. I would also add if they are spending money earnt by investing in companies outside the UK  its sort of like an export isn't it ?

What's also missed they pay tax as well on that pension. Many complaints on here about the gold plated pension mob (less than people think) but if their income is a public sector or defined benefit scheme from a big company might as well be a salary they pay the  same tax rates on it

[winkie]

We talk about people moving overseas and taking their money with them to spend in other places, they both give and take from society.

What about all our utility companies we have sold to foreign buyers, the supermarkets we have sold, our brand names we have sold overseas, what about investments into our pensions that are actively invested overseas?.....what about billions of pounds put offshore into tax havens all over the world?

[Insane]

19 minutes ago, winkie said:

What about all our utility companies we have sold to foreign buyers, the supermarkets we have sold, our brand names we have sold overseas, what about investments into our pensions that are actively invested overseas?.....what about billions of pounds put offshore into tax havens all over the world?

Well yes it is a Global Economy. 

[slawek]

12 hours ago, Insane said:

Said by someone who has time to waste on this Forum. Ironic 😂🤣🤣

I am wasting my time here but I have no financial interest in HPI. 

[Insane]

1 minute ago, slawek said:

I am wasting my time here but I have no financial interest in HPI. 

And ? 

[adarmo]

9 hours ago, onlooker said:

Those (younger) British pensioners retired in Spain are a net gain to the Spanish economy and a net loss to ours. When they get old and need subsidized care, they return to the UK and continue to be a net drain on the UK economy.

Thanks for the strawman. We're talking uk here. You seem to acknowledge though that they are a net drain on the UK wherever they live? If they've FO'd to Spain then they're not taking up a house nor are they taking a hospital bed. You also bifurcated the entire population of retirees into those young and costing very little and those older and choosing a good deal more.

[slawek]

Just now, Insane said:

And ? 

No irony here.

[Insane]

Just now, slawek said:

No irony here.

Explain Please ? 

[winkie]

7 minutes ago, Insane said:

Well yes it is a Global Economy. 

Well yes.......works both ways, freedom to trade, freedom to travel.........but only now if wealthy enough.

[adarmo]

8 hours ago, kzb said:

See MartinX9 post above.

All that does is point out they're still a deadweight loss to the UK. If they were spending in the uk it would have some offset but paying people to do nothing isn't good for the economy in the longer term.

What's your argument without Spain?