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Bozo wants to hike National Insurance to pay for social care


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4 minutes ago, nickb1 said:

Bit odd to lump Corbyn and Millipede together, Corbyn 1.0 did at least have some radical policies e.g. I recall a LVT which would have helped. 

LVT was never in a Labour manifesto, all that happened is John McDonnell said he was looking into it. If you actually read the 2017 and 2019 manifestos the policy proposals were pretty tame, hardly any more in them than the 2015 manifesto. It was the media that whipped up a reds under the bed frenzy as if PM Corbyn was proposing to introduce full communism on day 1.

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11 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

LVT was never in a Labour manifesto, all that happened is John McDonnell said he was looking into it. If you actually read the 2017 and 2019 manifestos the policy proposals were pretty tame, hardly any more in them than the 2015 manifesto. It was the media that whipped up a reds under the bed frenzy as if PM Corbyn was proposing to introduce full communism on day 1.

Kinda. The manifesto commitment was to review the case for an LVT. didn't stop the tabloids from running with it though ridiculing "Corbyn's garden tax".

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Just now, nickb1 said:

well the other was implicated by the Iraq war so probably unelectable.

Possibly yeah. I still liked him though, he came across quite well. Unlike his brother or Corbyn for that matter.

Starmer is a wet blanket, probably a decent minister in the right dept but really bereft of anything approaching a personality 

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Just now, Chunketh said:

Possibly yeah. I still liked him though, he came across quite well. Unlike his brother or Corbyn for that matter.

Starmer is a wet blanket, probably a decent minister in the right dept but really bereft of anything approaching a personality 

don't care about his personality, politicians are there to have and implement policies.

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1 minute ago, nickb1 said:

don't care about his personality, politicians are there to have and implement policies.

Well, we will never know now but you are quite right, the cult of personality is a major problem.

When I was 18 I went to a Blair lecture and was quite taken in by him. The lecture was about freedom of information (this was before he was elected leader) so I was gushing when labour won in 97, I genuinely thought he was different (hey I was 18).

8 years later I was marching in London

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On 09/09/2021 at 14:58, Dorkins said:

Yes, I think now that they've passed this resolution they would need another vote to undo it to stop the HSC levy from happening.

Pretty incredible really, 1/40th of people's wages taken away in the space of a couple of days with a single Commons vote and no manifesto mandate.

Thank you for continuing to not believe the lie that it was a 1.25% increase. 

The bar stewards may well get away with it if the tax increase is perceived as only half what it really is. 

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59 minutes ago, bearishonhouses said:

Thank you for continuing to not believe the lie that it was a 1.25% increase. 

The bar stewards may well get away with it if the tax increase is perceived as only half what it really is. 

The employer share of the 2.5% will show up in the form of lower wage increases over the next couple of years so people will feel that and I think many people do associate low annual payrises with poor economic performance and blame the government.

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18 hours ago, Si1 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/10/asset-not-asset-home/

 

"we are left with the kind of blatant triangulation that results in the Government simultaneously protecting the wealthy while also bloating the welfare state.

It does make you wonder though: if the Tories aren’t going to make the tough choices and argue for a bit of fiscal discipline, who will? And are they really right to be so sure that the older generations care so little about their children and grandchildren? "

Apparently so: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/sep/10/pensioners-governments-tax-triple-lock-pensions-rise-national-insurance

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I am afraid it is a nonsense when the public parrot in focus groups or on news segments that they want "politicians who tell the truth". It isn't as if they are going to admit to a stranger( or maybe even to themselves) that they want"an unprincipled liar who will brazenly act in my self interests". It was pretty obvious Boris Johnson lacks integrity, which is why he was elected. And in this policy he is simply doing his job of looking after the interests of his core vote. 

Nothing novel of course about any politician acting in the interests of their Core vote. But what shockingly stands out with this policy is how brazen it is, without even a token attempt to spread the pain around in an attempt to appear fair. Note how many Conservatives, including John Major and Fraser Nelson, have publicly voiced their disgust.

 

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1 hour ago, nothernsoul said:

I am afraid it is a nonsense when the public parrot in focus groups or on news segments that they want "politicians who tell the truth". It isn't as if they are going to admit to a stranger( or maybe even to themselves) that they want"an unprincipled liar who will brazenly act in my self interests". It was pretty obvious Boris Johnson lacks integrity, which is why he was elected. And in this policy he is simply doing his job of looking after the interests of his core vote. 

Nothing novel of course about any politician acting in the interests of their Core vote. But what shockingly stands out with this policy is how brazen it is, without even a token attempt to spread the pain around in an attempt to appear fair. Note how many Conservatives, including John Major and Fraser Nelson, have publicly voiced their disgust.

 

Yes. They've lost all moral authority now haven't they.

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No one posted this yet? Think this is the first policy i've seen of Starmer's that i actually agree with. 

Tax on landlords could pay for social care, says Keir Starmer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58516799

Mr Johnson's plans, he will say, leave "a private landlord renting out multiple properties not paying a penny more in tax, and their hard-working tenants to pick up the burden".

Edited by sammersmith
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29 minutes ago, sammersmith said:

No one posted this yet? Think this is the first policy i've seen of Starmer's that i actually agree with. 

Tax on landlords could pay for social care, says Keir Starmer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58516799

Mr Johnson's plans, he will say, leave "a private landlord renting out multiple properties not paying a penny more in tax, and their hard-working tenants to pick up the burden".

Chasing up tax they should be paying now would be a start.

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32 minutes ago, sammersmith said:

No one posted this yet? Think this is the first policy i've seen of Starmer's that i actually agree with. 

Tax on landlords could pay for social care, says Keir Starmer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58516799

Mr Johnson's plans, he will say, leave "a private landlord renting out multiple properties not paying a penny more in tax, and their hard-working tenants to pick up the burden".

I am liberal leftie but this oozes an empty political comment, like school president promising free ice cream at breaks. Token political comment….but agree with you and I guess at least he has said it  

With S21 and higher CGT rates applicable on property already any further moves will be so targeted that it will be such an outlier that I don’t think they will get it through. It would impact too many MPs 🤦🏻‍♂️
Is he suggesting higher income tax rates for rentals? I guess the main option is to allow S21 go to its full conclusion and move from being changed from a 20% credit to mortgage interest not being allowable at all. 

I think NI was so specifically targeted at the ‘worker’ that BJ may find a similar issue.

I think 5% NI on earned and unearned income…that helps productive workers and targets wealth income and shares the burden with pensioners (who will probably get 10% raise over next 3/4 years anyhoo).  Alternatively scrap NI and add 3/4% on income tax. It’s all a vote loser though.

More I think about it…more I realise they are all chasing votes and even those protesting do so because only do so if the feel it helps their political status with the public.

Never mind…at least most of the politicians are representative of us all ie we are all millionaires and went to public school. 

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16 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

I guess the main option is to allow S21 go to its full conclusion and move from being changed from a 20% credit to mortgage interest not being allowable at all. 

This is my thought. There's a compelling narrative here that the remaining 20% relief of S24 is tax advantage available to LLs but not homeowners. It seems increasingly harder to justify even though the relief is not as generous as it once was. 

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1 minute ago, sammersmith said:

This is my thought. There's a compelling narrative here that the remaining 20% relief of S24 is tax advantage available to LLs but not homeowners. It seems increasingly harder to justify even though the relief is not as generous as it once was. 

But then you just incorporate and it's gone. The problem those days is how the corporate world takes us all for a spin.

Corporate tax laws have not been updated since the world went full digital, and there is little rush to fix the gaping holes. The big corporations are not paying their fair share and you can see that in how they handle their PR. They are always talking in terms of absolute numbers and never in ratio. 

Gabriel Zuckman wrote an amazing paper 10 years ago: the missing wealth of the nation. 

In the meantime we have growing inequality, assets owners are doing great, and the only way the successive incompetent governments are tinkering around tax burden is based on income. Something that is now almost irrelevant when it comes to reach the top 1%

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10 hours ago, nothernsoul said:

I am afraid it is a nonsense when the public parrot in focus groups or on news segments that they want "politicians who tell the truth". It isn't as if they are going to admit to a stranger( or maybe even to themselves) that they want"an unprincipled liar who will brazenly act in my self interests". It was pretty obvious Boris Johnson lacks integrity, which is why he was elected. And in this policy he is simply doing his job of looking after the interests of his core vote. 

Nothing novel of course about any politician acting in the interests of their Core vote. But what shockingly stands out with this policy is how brazen it is, without even a token attempt to spread the pain around in an attempt to appear fair. Note how many Conservatives, including John Major and Fraser Nelson, have publicly voiced their disgust.

 

Outrage as politician implements policy that benefits the people that voted for him.

I actually think it would have been far easier for Johnson to print up the extra money or just ignore the whole issue and let it get worse or leave it for the next government to sort out.

In fact he tackled it head on, and yes a fair few Tory voters who run Ltd companies are going to be pissed off about the consequences.

So I don't think it was an easy choice for him. Do I think it was the right policy ? No. I think he should have gone after unearned income more. But he's a Tory after all and as a consequence you might expect the policy he came up with.

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3 hours ago, sammersmith said:

No one posted this yet? Think this is the first policy i've seen of Starmer's that i actually agree with. 

Tax on landlords could pay for social care, says Keir Starmer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58516799

Mr Johnson's plans, he will say, leave "a private landlord renting out multiple properties not paying a penny more in tax, and their hard-working tenants to pick up the burden".

The Andy Burnham plan is far better (although I would tweak it quite significantly):

ANDY BURNHAM has demanded Labour leader Keir Starmer adopts a death tax plan to cover the cost of social care.

Manchester Mayor Andy Burham has demanded pensioners hand over ten percent of their assets or savings to HMRC to cover the cost of social care.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1487998/Andy-Burnham-death-tax-national-insurance-HMRC-latest-social-care-VN

The fact that you have the Manchester mayor and the leader of the party espousing different ideas tells us the party has not been considering any cogent policy in this area.  They are simply reacting, off the cuff, to events rather than leading them.  Very poor, given this is a very important topic for voters.

 

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Just now, kzb said:

The Andy Burnham plan is far better (although I would tweak it quite significantly):

ANDY BURNHAM has demanded Labour leader Keir Starmer adopts a death tax plan to cover the cost of social care.

Manchester Mayor Andy Burham has demanded pensioners hand over ten percent of their assets or savings to HMRC to cover the cost of social care.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1487998/Andy-Burnham-death-tax-national-insurance-HMRC-latest-social-care-VN

The fact that you have the Manchester mayor and the leader of the party espousing different ideas tells us the party has not been considering any cogent policy in this area.  They are simply reacting, off the cuff, to events rather than leading them.  Very poor, given this is a very important topic for voters.

 

Not much different to Tory dithering under Theresa May. A debate is a reasonable thing to have however.

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34 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Not much different to Tory dithering under Theresa May. A debate is a reasonable thing to have however.

Hang on TM, had a concrete plan and which cost her majority !

There was no real debate about the best way to fund social care.  The government has simply implemented that report from a few years ago.  The Labour Party clearly had no cogent alternative plan as an official policy.

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