Bozo wants to hike National Insurance to pay for social care

[Insane]

2 hours ago, ds7971 said:

And thats before you pay any of the other taxes - council tax, fuel duty, vehicle excise duty, TV licence (pretty much a tax), 20% VAT etc.

 

Alcohol Duty, Cigarette Tax, Insurance Tax, Stamp Duty , Dividend Tax on any shares in Pensions, Airport Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Land Registry Tax, I am sure there are a few others but that is enough to be going on with. 

[byron78]

22 minutes ago, kzb said:

I can't spend the time finding it today.  People on here know by now that I don't just make stuff up.  This was a real story in the press a few years ago I assure you.

Is "real" and "in the press" not an oxymoron like "Fun Run" yet?

[byron78]

22 minutes ago, Insane said:

She only had one Son Peter , he would be mid 30's now. 

If he's in financial services, that's probably him then! Unless I'm mixed up. Which I assure you is entirely possible

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

31 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

frankly I think there are a lot of older people who quite like to see younger people struggling

I get that feeling too. Some of the boomer posters on here appear to revel in it. 

[Chunketh]

36 minutes ago, kzb said:

Yes you can but it means you have a lower standard of living.

The total tax proportion will be the highest on record apparently, under a Tory government.

But why do you think you will never benefit?  As the girl on TV said, we are all just one accident or one illness away from needing care.  On this thread we talk about this tax as if it is all about pensioners, when in reality more than half the budget is spent on people below pension age.

 

Very true, its a slightly lower standard of living now for a slightly better (or earlier retirement) later. I’m comfortable with that.

I may benefit from care, but I suspect that by the time that becomes likely that it will have gone the way of the pension and will either be means tested, or useable only from 75.

Here is the problem. We are paying out far more than most people ever paid in and the working generation are footing the bill. At some point that has to reach a crisis point, and that crisis point is going to be before my retirement age.

A bit of honesty is what is required and the option to simply opt out of the state pension and make your own arrangements

[Si1]

Saint Vince:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/social-care-national-insurance-triple-lock-b1915867.html

"Some Tory MPs are worried that their party will suffer from breaking an election pledge. I doubt that they need to worry. The government is cynically protecting the interests of elderly property owners who vote for them at the expense of younger, low-income workers and renters who don’t. That could be said to be good politics. What it certainly isn’t is a good and fair policy to “fix” social care."

[kzb]

1 hour ago, byron78 said:

Is "real" and "in the press" not an oxymoron like "Fun Run" yet?

Maybe, no doubt you will be making your own judgement according to what you believe already.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, Chunketh said:

Very true, its a slightly lower standard of living now for a slightly better (or earlier retirement) later. I’m comfortable with that.

I may benefit from care, but I suspect that by the time that becomes likely that it will have gone the way of the pension and will either be means tested (1), or useable only from 75.

Here is the problem. We are paying out far more than most people ever paid in and the working generation are footing the bill. At some point that has to reach a crisis point, and that crisis point is going to be before my retirement age. (2)

A bit of honesty is what is required and the option to simply opt out of the state pension and make your own arrangements (3)

(1) It's already means-tested !  This is what people were complaining about in the first place, and why this reform was brought in.  It's still means tested though !

(2) Or the next government could simply bring in Andy Burnham's idea of 10% tax on estates, and do away with this crap policy altogether.

(3) The state pension is better value than any private pension.  OK you think things will collapse before you get yours, but if things get that bad the private pensions will be stuffed as well.  In fact they'll steal your pension pot to pay the state pensions of others first.

 

[kzb]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I get that feeling too. Some of the boomer posters on here appear to revel in it. 

When I actually see a young person struggling, through no fault of their own, I might worry.  All I see is constant spending.

[Chunketh]

7 minutes ago, kzb said:

(1) It's already means-tested !  This is what people were complaining about in the first place, and why this reform was brought in.  It's still means tested though !

(2) Or the next government could simply bring in Andy Burnham's idea of 10% tax on estates, and do away with this crap policy altogether.

(3) The state pension is better value than any private pension.  OK you think things will collapse before you get yours, but if things get that bad the private pensions will be stuffed as well.  In fact they'll steal your pension pot to pay the state pensions of others first.

 

Agreed. It’s still means tested. The current goalposts will shift again meaning I dont get what the current pensioner gets, yet I am asked to pay for it…..see the problem?

You are still robbing the young to pay for the olds higher than deserved standard of living.

Your point 3 illustrates this perfectly. We need a plain, honest and cross party discussion on the elephant in the room. The state pension is too good to be true and totally unsustainable. That’s not to say its generous (its really not), but its too generous for what gets paid in. 

We should move to a fully self funded model and start giving folk the opportunity to opt out from the get go, or provide a cash lump sum to get bought out of the state pension liabilities in return for not paying a large chunk of NI. Couple that with a proper financial education at school and support for the fringe cases and the problem goes away in a couple of generations.

[byron78]

34 minutes ago, kzb said:

Maybe, no doubt you will be making your own judgement according to what you believe already.

It does sound like nonsense, but I'm sure you've not just plucked it from thin air. Why would you even do that?

[ucnvpe0]

4 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Totally agree. It of course varies across England but engaging with the NHS (unless you turn up in A&E) isn't easy for many. The NHS is 'wonderful' until you actually try and engage with it for a non emergency reason.

My elderly mum's GP practice only accepts contact by phone - no emails or electronic contact. The phone is constantly engaged all day every day - recently we were collectively trying to get through to them for 3 days without success to obtain results of a heart condition test she had had 3 weeks before. I just gave up and drove her round there - and insisted they deal with it and we finally got answers as a last resort!

Same time every time we need to contact them about anything. Their systems are dreadful and they have no follow up systems - we spoke to the GP yesterday who was going to follow up for a second opinion from a consultant and were told that we should follow up in 2 weeks if we hadn't heard back. They won't contact you when they hear back from the consultant - you must keep trying them (even if you have no idea if and when the consultant has responded).

So its constantly on you to push, chase, spend hours on the phone and generally make a nuisance.

But if you are a vulnerable elderly person with no one to push and chase for you - you are essentially left to rot. I wonder how many elderly living alone with no one (and there are millions of them) are suffering or dying literally from neglect and an inability to engage with the NHS as they cannot get through to speak to their local surgery.

And to think we spent £40bn on track and trace (the sum raised from the new NI rise for nearly four years) - how about a system to allow you to track and trace your GP and your non Covid related test results!

Where did all that money go - how about a supertax on those firms and people who received that £40bn to fund social care?

 

Yes. To get effective outcomes you have to manage your own care sadly. Knowing the system helps and you always have to chase things.

[kzb]

49 minutes ago, byron78 said:

It does sound like nonsense, but I'm sure you've not just plucked it from thin air. Why would you even do that?

I have not made it up.  Like you say why would I do that?

Quite a few on here have thought they were being clever asking me to provide evidence thinking it does not exist, only to be proved wrong later.

This was a real story from a few years ago.    A consultant somehow looked into how many of the patients were entitled to free NHS healthcare.  A certain number was mentioned, out of a total number of patients.  I worked this out to (I think, but not fully certain) 38%.  The consultant then lost his job somehow.

Yes it was likely in the Express and/or Mail, so people will scoff at that, but there will be truth in this story.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, Chunketh said:

Agreed. It’s still means tested. The current goalposts will shift again meaning I dont get what the current pensioner gets, yet I am asked to pay for it…..see the problem?

You are still robbing the young to pay for the olds higher than deserved standard of living (1)

Your point 3 illustrates this perfectly. We need a plain, honest and cross party discussion on the elephant in the room. The state pension is too good to be true and totally unsustainable. That’s not to say its generous (its really not), but its too generous for what gets paid in. (2)

We should move to a fully self funded model and start giving folk the opportunity to opt out (3) from the get go, or provide a cash lump sum to get bought out of the state pension liabilities in return for not paying a large chunk of NI. Couple that with a proper financial education at school and support for the fringe cases and the problem goes away in a couple of generations.

(1)  Like I said, more than half the budget is not actually spent on pensioners.  Most of it goes on people younger than pension age.  It's also not clear, perhaps you know, if the £23bn expenditure is gross or net.  What I mean by that is, a lot of the money spent on pensioners is reclaimed.  Is it £23bn before or after this reclaim of costs?

(2)  Your head would explode in France, Italy, Spain et al where the state pension is vastly more generous than here.  What do they do?

(3)  All the wealthy would opt out, leaving the ordinary workers to fund it all.  No, No, No, to quote Mrs Thatcher.

 

[byron78]

13 minutes ago, kzb said:

 

Yes it was likely in the Express and/or Mail, so people will scoff at that, but there will be truth in this story.

Go find it then. Sounds interesting! 

[kzb]

Just now, byron78 said:

Go find it then. Sounds interesting! 

I've had a quick Google but I can't find it now.

[kzb]

5 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

So its constantly on you to push, chase, spend hours on the phone and generally make a nuisance.

But if you are a vulnerable elderly person with no one to push and chase for you - you are essentially left to rot. I wonder how many elderly living alone with no one (and there are millions of them) are suffering or dying literally from neglect and an inability to engage with the NHS as they cannot get through to speak to their local surgery.

Yes this is very much my feeling about it.  I could've written your post myself.

If you are not fully in possession of your faculties, you don't stand a chance against the NHS.  It has got to the point of "is it worth the bother" even for young healthy people.

[Chunketh]

19 minutes ago, kzb said:

(1)  Like I said, more than half the budget is not actually spent on pensioners.  Most of it goes on people younger than pension age.  It's also not clear, perhaps you know, if the £23bn expenditure is gross or net.  What I mean by that is, a lot of the money spent on pensioners is reclaimed.  Is it £23bn before or after this reclaim of costs?

(2)  Your head would explode in France, Italy, Spain et al where the state pension is vastly more generous than here.  What do they do?

(3)  All the wealthy would opt out, leaving the ordinary workers to fund it all.  No, No, No, to quote Mrs Thatcher.

 

Yes, we would.

The up in arms, I deserve my 8% brigade can do one. 

[kzb]

4 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

Yes, we would.

The up in arms, I deserve my 8% brigade can do one. 

They're not getting 8%.

[winkie]

6 hours ago, Insane said:

No on paper they have not but try getting an appointment. 

I had been referred from my Doctor to the ear service. In my location it is run from a GP's surgery every now and again , nothing to do with the surgery. You phone a number to get an appointment  , a recoded message asks you to leave your details and they will get back to you. Three times I phoned left my details never got a reply. Went into the Surgery was told yes the clinic is held here but nothing to do with us , no one here that can help you please call the number you have been given. 

During all this the Ear Wax played up big time. 

So yes there is still a service but as they say post code lottery in my case the service provided was unobtainable. 

Was in you ear......the solution, order a special ear syringe from tinternet with a bottle of otex  hydrogen peroxide ear drops....in the meantime put a coupe of drops of olive oil into affected ear each day to soften wax over a period of about a week, any drops you add do it when lying on side for 20 mins or so...do not put anything in ears, no cotton wool, no cotton buds, no bits of tissue, stand up after 20 mins and wipe excess of oil from around the ears.....when the syringe arrives approx 20 ml in size with a special tri tip that sees the water exits the syringe three ways to the edge of the ears not directly central to hit eardrum that is very sensitive.......after a week of olive oil add the otex for a couple of days always when lying on side three drops, wait patiently for 20 mins you will hear fizzing and popping, this is good it is breaking down the wax......after two further days, then the best bit, fill a basin with warm water, and put head to the side and flush ear with the water from the syringe, you will almost certainly see lumps of wax flush into the basin......pop, your ears will be clear......for those people which there are many that do have either certain shaped ears or types of wax that require regular bursts of cleaning......you can do it yourself if you know how.

[slawek]

3 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I get that feeling too. Some of the boomer posters on here appear to revel in it. 

This forum is full of the old people. Younger people are too busy working to waste their time on it. 

Those people are changing the tone of the forum. It is less and less HPC as they are main beneficiaries of HPI. 

[Si1]

Passed through parliament easily:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1488404/national-insurance-tax-rise-tory-party-boris-johnson-social-care-plan-commons-vote

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Si1

[Insane]

20 minutes ago, winkie said:

Was in you ear......the solution, order a special ear syringe from tinternet with a bottle of otex  hydrogen peroxide ear drops....in the meantime put a coupe of drops of olive oil into affected ear each day to soften wax over a period of about a week, any drops you add do it when lying on side for 20 mins or so...do not put anything in ears, no cotton wool, no cotton buds, no bits of tissue, stand up after 20 mins and wipe excess of oil from around the ears.....when the syringe arrives approx 20 ml in size with a special tri tip that sees the water exits the syringe three ways to the edge of the ears not directly central to hit eardrum that is very sensitive.......after a week of olive oil add the otex for a couple of days always when lying on side three drops, wait patiently for 20 mins you will hear fizzing and popping, this is good it is breaking down the wax......after two further days, then the best bit, fill a basin with warm water, and put head to the side and flush ear with the water from the syringe, you will almost certainly see lumps of wax flush into the basin......pop, your ears will be clear......for those people which there are many that do have either certain shaped ears or types of wax that require regular bursts of cleaning......you can do it yourself if you know how

Thank you 

But I can only have my ears sucked due to a perforated Ear Drum in the right ear many years ago. I have them done every six months costs £85 but worth every penny. 

[Insane]

16 minutes ago, slawek said:

This forum is full of the old people. Younger people are too busy working to waste their time on it. 

Those people are changing the tone of the forum. It is less and less HPC as they are main beneficiaries of HPI. 

Said by someone who has time to waste on this Forum. Ironic 😂🤣🤣

[winkie]

1 minute ago, Insane said:

Thank you 

But I can only have my ears sucked due to a perforated Ear Drum in the right ear many years ago. I have them done every six months costs £85 but worth every penny. 

Sorry to 'hear' that.....best done professionally with vacuum in the ear with a perforated eardrum....not that expensive in these parts.