Working from home dies a death - remote switches to hybrid... lots of people in trouble because of unworkable commutes

[Pop321]

19 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

BTW, re WFH, just held a 15 min meeting and cleared the air with people from IT, Risk, Marketing and Back Office on an issue that had been misunderstood and festering for 2 months while we were in the office.  All from my humble wee cabin over Zoom.

 

Yep, exactly my experience. For the last 7/8 years we used conference calls like this whether we were in the office or not. Our guys were scattered across the country so face to face meetings were used mainly for team building or announcements of redundancy.

WFH for me just gave me more time to work. My days became 8am to 6pm instead of 8:30am to 5:30pm…so longer at the desk but it saved me 2/3 hours travelling. 

[Pop321]

17 hours ago, Pmax2020 said:

Sadly the compatibility of WFH comes down to an individuals focus and commitment. Regrettably, most people are selfish and lazy. 

Remove the 2 x 60 minute commute from my day and I’m online at 8am and getting things done instead of being stuck in traffic. Communication is more focused because it’s used wisely - a quick teams call or email rather than sporadic disruptions at an actual work station. I can go for a run at lunchtime or get the odd chore done which helps with well-being!!

I still go into the office a couple of days a week but I work better when I’m at home, getting peace and talking out loud to work things out and motivate myself like a plonker 🤣

Agree.

I think the key is employers need to learn how to control and drive ALL the work force remotely.

I didn’t have much choice because I was in calls, meetings, projects all day long. So when I worked from home I moved from a good employee to a really effective one. I was steering 7/8 meetings a day….whereas in the office I would be lucky to attend 2.

The saving for our employer was massive. My commute went from 2/3 hours to nil….so the company got at least half that time back because I was at my desk earlier in the morning and later in the evening…and I still was gaining an overall ‘shorter’ day.

It’s horses for courses regarding where you live, house size etc and of course some jobs just can’t be done remotely….but for standard office jobs there is a massive benefit to employers. What they need to do is subtly ‘watch’ employees in the day…set tasks and goals that keep them busy and at their desks and can be monitored. All in a positive way which is tricky.

We had some employees who would be working on a report or a spreadsheet for a whole week….no calls, no meeting etc. They were the ones who would ‘slip away’ and almost become disengaged when really they needed to be contacted by a good manager for positive updates, team updates and project meetings updates on the report, spreadsheet, analysis etc. 

[Huggy]

3 hours ago, spyguy said:

I think most London coffee shops employ more and have a higher turnover.

IMHO anyone who needs to return to work what - those people doing customer facing jobs or grunt jobs.

Everyone else is hybrid working or fully at home.

And theyll remain there until covid has blown over for a year or two. And you can get a good deal on office space.

 

I did see he had 20 staff and so was aware he was 'nothing', and didn't fancy looking too deep into him or the company. I know the types, good hair, good beards, great suits, and can talk a good game. That's about it for the positives really.

Also, in order to assist the service sector, I will also be enjoying a face to face work Christmas party next Monday. It's what Jesus would have wanted.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Huggy

[winkie]

4 hours ago, spyguy said:

 

I think most London coffee shops employ more and have a higher turnover.

IMHO anyone who needs to return to work what - those people doing customer facing jobs or grunt jobs.

Everyone else is hybrid working or fully at home.

And theyll remain there until covid has blown over for a year or two. And you can get a good deal on office space.

 

 

 

 

Coffee like pizza has a high profit margin......could be because of the rents and rates they pay, not the wages.....why are you calling them 'grunt' jobs.......why would they be grunting?.....living in an expensive capital city not paying a living wage, am surprised if what you say they would want or can work there......anyone miserable working is in the wrong job.....making it miserable for other staff and the customers they serve.

[Si1]

2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

Agree.

I think the key is employers need to learn how to control and drive ALL the work force remotely.

I didn’t have much choice because I was in calls, meetings, projects all day long. So when I worked from home I moved from a good employee to a really effective one. I was steering 7/8 meetings a day….whereas in the office I would be lucky to attend 2.

The saving for our employer was massive. My commute went from 2/3 hours to nil….so the company got at least half that time back because I was at my desk earlier in the morning and later in the evening…and I still was gaining an overall ‘shorter’ day.

It’s horses for courses regarding where you live, house size etc and of course some jobs just can’t be done remotely….but for standard office jobs there is a massive benefit to employers. What they need to do is subtly ‘watch’ employees in the day…set tasks and goals that keep them busy and at their desks and can be monitored. All in a positive way which is tricky.

We had some employees who would be working on a report or a spreadsheet for a whole week….no calls, no meeting etc. They were the ones who would ‘slip away’ and almost become disengaged when really they needed to be contacted by a good manager for positive updates, team updates and project meetings updates on the report, spreadsheet, analysis etc. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mouse-Mover-Blue-and-Black/dp/B07P6HBD1N 

 

[spyguy]

3 minutes ago, winkie said:

Coffee like pizza has a high profit margin......could be because of the rents and rates they pay, not the wages.....why are you calling them 'grunt' jobs.......why would they be grunting?.....living in an expensive capital city not paying a living wage, am surprised if what you say they would want or can work there......anyone miserable working is in the wrong job.....making it miserable for other staff and the customers they serve.

Or grunt jobs.

Grunt jobs require you to lug something physical, be it HGV or builder.

 

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Or grunt jobs.

Grunt jobs require you to lug something physical, be it HGV or builder.

 

Got it......the job not the unhappy, underpaid employee who clearly doesn't want to be there.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

'24 HOURS to save pubs and restaurants': Warning 10,000 hospitality firms could SHUT without urgent financial help - as WFH turns cities into ghost towns

Bosses warned today that hospitality firms need support 'in the next 24 hours' as venues prepare to shut their doors in the face of dwindling customer numbers, with morning rush-hour traffic in London today falling to its lowest level since the third coronavirus lockdown began.

Offices and city centres have been abandoned as Omicron cases continue to soar across Britain - with many businesses now working from home in the run-up to Christmas after the government latest 'work from home if you can' advice, leaving roads empty and public transport barely used. 

Pubs and restaurants across the UK have also been forced to close amid rising Covid cases, with several reporting that they do not have enough staff available to continue serving food and drink over the busy festive period.  

The operator of the Real Greek and Franco Manca restaurant chains called for emergency rescue packages regardless of whether the Government introduces new measures to stop the spread of Covid. And the boss of trade body UKHospitality said 'as many as 10,000 sites' could close if support is not announced imminently.

The group said 54 per cent of venues were down more than 40 per cent in revenue last weekend, with one in five businesses down more than 60 per cent. A Tourism Alliance poll also found a third of pubs, bars and restaurants have no cash reserves and 10 per cent of pubs and 14 per cent of restaurants are therefore very likely to fail.

The congestion figure for the 8am-9am morning rush hour in London today was 21%, according to TomTom data. This was the lowest level of congestions for the morning rush-hour on a working weekday in the capital since January 8. 

Similar trends were seen across the UK with Newcastle seeing congestion fall from 51% to 15% in a week, the most extreme example in the country. Liverpool saw congestion fall from 58% to 18% in a week and Birmingham went from 55% to 26%. 

Transport for London said there were 660,000 entries or exits on the Tube up to 10am this morning – down 35% week-on-week, and down 46% over a fortnight. There were 720,000 boarding taps on buses for the same period this morning – down 38% week-on-week.  

However, the Tubes are at 58% of pre-pandemic levels and buses at 77% of pre-pandemic levels. This is higher than last Monday (December 13), when they were 46% and 71% respectively – and the main reason for this is that the schools breaking up for the Christmas holidays has a big impact.  

Meanwhile, takeaway sales have surged in suburbs amid the latest work from home guidance. Hospitality leaders said customers seeking delivery had skyrocketed outside major areas following the new restrictions. They said orders away from central London have gone up as employees left the capital for Christmas.

It comes as businesses demanded a 'roadmap' back to normality as they faced another hammer blow due to the curbs.  

[iamnumerate]

I am neutral about this but it interesting that Google have bought their HQ and have said most people should be in the office.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2022/01/14/google-buys-london-hq-1bn-vote-confidence-office/

[dugsbody]

27 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I am neutral about this but it interesting that Google have bought their HQ and have said most people should be in the office.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2022/01/14/google-buys-london-hq-1bn-vote-confidence-office/

It is a shame that big corporates seem to be bowing to political pressure rather than giving their own staff what they want.

I moved on from "big corp" in 2020 and after an enjoyable couple of months gardening leave period (I got to experience furlough in a round-about way), I have joined "small corp" recently. WFH is baked in to their culture, and it extends into other aspects where workers who produce the wealth for the corp are entrusted in other ways to get things done.

Much better.

I guess it is hard to change the wider world, but at least I changed my own little world.

[iamnumerate]

40 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

It is a shame that big corporates seem to be bowing to political pressure rather than giving their own staff what they want.

I moved on from "big corp" in 2020 and after an enjoyable couple of months gardening leave period (I got to experience furlough in a round-about way), I have joined "small corp" recently. WFH is baked in to their culture, and it extends into other aspects where workers who produce the wealth for the corp are entrusted in other ways to get things done.

Much better.

I guess it is hard to change the wider world, but at least I changed my own little world.

Do you think it is political pressure?  It could just be managers being unable to manage staff outside of the office (easier for small companies of course).

[dugsbody]

1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

Do you think it is political pressure?  It could just be managers being unable to manage staff outside of the office (easier for small companies of course).

I think it's a bit of many things. We know there is political pressure, because the large corporate landlords lobby the government, as do other businesses who operate in cities and want the worker bees to be out and consuming lunches etc. And we know that government are putting pressure on big corps to get staff back in.

Then there is indeed the management chain. In my "big corp", during the last two years of lockdowns, my direct manager fully bought in to remote working and our team didn't lose any productivity, probably gained. But other more senior people didn't like the feeling of the empty office and preferred the period where they were more visible. Many managers are promoted on their art of politics rather than other ability (don't get me wrong, politics in some management positions is important). Physical presence in the office plays to their strengths.

If some managers are finding it difficult to manage a remote team, while others aren't, then obviously the problem isn't intrinsically the remote working. Perhaps tweaking the style and having some frank conversations could help.

I do get it, in terms of being responsible for a large corporation, on the surface the least risky thing is to stick to what they think works, which is having everyone present and interacting face to face. But the reality in the modern world is that in a service economy, jobs trend into cities and cities become overcrowded, expensive and involve longer and longer commutes for those of us not privileged enough to have bought nice houses close to the office when they were affordable. 

[iamnumerate]

9 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

I do get it, in terms of being responsible for a large corporation, on the surface the least risky thing is to stick to what they think works, which is having everyone present and interacting face to face. But the reality in the modern world is that in a service economy, jobs trend into cities and cities become overcrowded, expensive and involve longer and longer commutes for those of us not privileged enough to have bought nice houses close to the office when they were affordable. 

I agree IBM used to say "No one ever got sacked for buying IBM".  Basically no one ever lost their job for supporting the status quo.  I agree with you about the problem of housing though.

[coypondboy]

I wonder how all those workers sat at home working will be reacting as BOJO announces the end of wfh.

I feel sorry for those who commute by train to centre of major cities as the alarm clock is reset to 5am from 8am and no more playing tennis/badminton at 6pm.  I think many will switch jobs or retire early if their employer doesn't allow them to continue wfh.  The Civil service and public sector office workers will be hardest hit if told to return full time.

Edited January 19, 2022 by coypondboy

[PeanutButter]

Was just on a call that mentioned this. Yeah they ain’t demanding people back into office anytime soon, because we can’t recruit when they leave. 

Max request will be 2 days a week.

[Huggy]

No old fashioned fascism with my BigCorp. You can WFH full time if you want or you can come in full time or anywhere in between. I'm going in next Thursday for a change of scenery and a Lebanese at lunch, and that'll be it till mid-Feb when I'll do the same.

13 minutes ago, coypondboy said:

I feel sorry for those who commute by train to centre of major cities

I feel sorry for those who are forced to do this against their wishes, some (IMO insane types) actually quite like it. My request for VR will come immediately after we're back with some form of a minimum number of office days.

[Riedquat]

43 minutes ago, Huggy said:

I feel sorry for those who are forced to do this against their wishes, some (IMO insane types) actually quite like it. My request for VR will come immediately after we're back with some form of a minimum number of office days.

Personally I think those who want work to invade their house are insane, each to their own.

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

I feel sorry for those who are forced to do this against their wishes, some (IMO insane types) actually quite like it. My request for VR will come immediately after we're back with some form of a minimum number of office days.

Do you think they'll say yes to VR? 

[hotblack42]

29 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Personally I think those who want work to invade their house are insane, each to their own.

It invaded my garden.  My office is 1/3 of this cabin.  Proper partition wall with 5 lever lock door, plasterboard ceiling, floorboards, oodles of sockets inc RJ45.  Lots of substantial insulation, heats up in mins and stays warm.  No phones ringing, bored colleagues making stupid noises/conversation or boss asking if "I've got 5 minutes to look at.."

https://www.tuin.co.uk/sophie-log-cabin.html

I'll be back oop Lundun 2 days pw again now.  Its OK, not as cheap as not going up at all, but doable.  Will drop the gratis hours though, and if they ask me to go back to 1 day WFH, 3 days in the office as Feb 20, I'll be offski, job or no.  Spring soon.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Personally I think those who want work to invade their house are insane, each to their own.

Ah yeah Mr Presenteeism pops up again. I’m sure your colleagues love your middling managerial skillz. 

[Huggy]

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Do you think they'll say yes to VR? 

They were up for it a few years back with an almost company wide offer as they wanted to trim almost 20%, but I was happy doing my stuff so didn't bother. They might be looking again, but covid has kept them quite for the moment.

[PeanutButter]

3 hours ago, Huggy said:

They were up for it a few years back with an almost company wide offer as they wanted to trim almost 20%, but I was happy doing my stuff so didn't bother. They might be looking again, but covid has kept them quite for the moment.

I'm sure I've mentioned how we let go all lawyers in Germany at great expense and then had to contract external ones for 4 times the price  

[iamnumerate]

27 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I'm sure I've mentioned how we let go all lawyers in Germany at great expense and then had to contract external ones for 4 times the price  

No and it is really funny

[Nick Cash]

6 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Personally I think those who want work to invade their house are insane, each to their own.

Yes, I worked from home 20 years ago. Took about 18 months before I couldn’t differentiate between home and office. Could never relax. It’s not for everyone.

[Pmax2020]

9 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Personally I think those who want work to invade their house are insane, each to their own.

Sure beats 2-3 hours a day of your life wasted in traffic, let alone actually being able to do something worthwhile during your lunch break eg. Go for a run. For us, it solves so many problems such as the Mrs being able to do the school run while the wee boy is napping in the house while I work.

The company I work for wasted no time in sending an email out today to explaining a return to offices would start in the coming weeks. Thankfully my bosses are happy for people to do as these please.