Working from home dies a death - remote switches to hybrid... lots of people in trouble because of unworkable commutes

[Roman Roady]

I guess the owners of the commercial properties have friends in high places. The status quo must be preserved …until their positions have been liquidated for a profit at least 

[wsn03]

We've delivered a whole phase of a project remotely as contractors. There's talk of us having to go back to the office. All of the meetings we have are with people in other parts of the world often at unsociable hours...suits home working  well.

 

The only reason for having us back is so some middle manager can say "I can see you". We will be back to fighting over meeting rooms.

 

All of us will resign if it happens, we have too many home based options. I've been told they'll about turn if we do...we shall see.

Edited June 15, 2021 by wsn03

[satsuma]

26 minutes ago, wsn03 said:

We've delivered a whole phase of a project remotely as contractors. There's talk of us having to go back to the office. All of the meetings we have are with people in other parts of the world often at unsociable hours...suits home working  well.

 

The only reason for having us back is so some middle manager can say "I can see you". We will be back to fighting over meeting rooms.

 

All of us will resign if it happens, we have too many home based options. I've been told they'll about turn if we do...we shall see.

 Middle managers are your Director and VP types, when you first meet them you assume they are genius but after 25 year in the business you know for a fact they are bullshiters, I get offers of some dismal Director role on a regular basis.  Load of crap.  They spend their time watching their back in case someone with actual ability gets noticed.  The problem these slime balls face is that we are 18 months into remote working and businesses have done fine, at some point the penny will drop that people don’t need someone to supervise them, it’s an outdated concept.  So yes, they are desperate to get people back so they can be seen to have a use.  I know one of these middle managers that bawled out a grey haired veteran as he had a stack of papers on one side of his desk.  The old geezer calmly explained that the forms come in, he deals with them and the stack reappears each day.  What a bunch of ******ing muppets.   

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

14 minutes ago, satsuma said:

 Middle managers are your Director and VP types, when you first meet them you assume they are genius but after 25 year in the business you know for a fact they are bullshiters, I get offers of some dismal Director role on a regular basis.  Load of crap.  They spend their time watching their back in case someone with actual ability gets noticed.  The problem these slime balls face is that we are 18 months into remote working and businesses have done fine, at some point the penny will drop that people don’t need someone to supervise them, it’s an outdated concept.  So yes, they are desperate to get people back so they can be seen to have a use.  I know one of these middle managers that bawled out a grey haired veteran as he had a stack of papers on one side of his desk.  The old geezer calmly explained that the forms come in, he deals with them and the stack reappears each day.  What a bunch of ******ing muppets.   

These middling managers up their own self-important backside in presenteeism are a curse on real productivity. There are a few that identify as them on here. They are the type that suck the spirit, morale and individuality out of others. I've quit jobs before having found out a few.

[Confusion of VIs]

3 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

🤣🤣

CIV you sound like a middling manager soaked in presenteeism coming up with stuff like that. 

🙂 No a Director (CIO) in a young fast growing organisation but long in the tooth enough to know that no matter how good you are or what your HR policies are it is the personal relationships you build with the more senior staff that govern who gets ahead.

3 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Hence why I resigned from big corp. I agree, core staff were being asked to return to the office and I didn't want to, so off I go.

I agree, career progression will be helped by presenteeism. Most people don't realise that being liked is often the difference in promotion, bonus, salary when you're in a very competitive field where everyone around you is talented anyway.

But I'm past that now. I've achieved a lot and now have a family to consider. I'm off to (what I hope is) a more dynamic environment where they really do walk the walk about remote working and empowering employees to be productive. I'm afraid that big corps are slowly ending up with dinosaurs who can't make it elsewhere.

Anyway, still three months to go, though I'm hoping most of that I'll be put on gardening leave.

I hope it goes well for you, its a good move for anyone who has managed to progress as far as they want and enjoy their role. One thing to watch for is that it isn't only big corps that act like big corps, my last two jobs have been in start ups and its amazing how quickly they start to mimic corporates and have the same communication and management issues.     

[Timm]

5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

CIV you sound like a middling manager soaked in presenteeism...

 

3 hours ago, satsuma said:

 Middle managers are your Director and VP types, when you first meet them you assume they are genius but after 25 year in the business you know for a fact they are bullshiters...

 

3 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

These middling managers up their own self-important backside in presenteeism are a curse on real productivity. There are a few that identify as them on here. They are the type that suck the spirit, morale and individuality out of others. I've quit jobs before having found out a few.

 

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🙂 No a Director (CIO) in a young fast growing organisation...  

I love this thread.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🙂 No a Director (CIO) in a young fast growing organisation but long in the tooth enough to know that no matter how good you are or what your HR policies are it is the personal relationships you build with the more senior staff that govern who gets ahead.

    

Fair enough bud. We just operate our tech company differently I guess. No one is forced to attend the office or unnecessary Zoom meetings. We judge everyone fairly on ability and performance. 

[Timm]

5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Yeah we appear to have two competing threads of anecdotes. 

Exactly.

There are five possibilities.

1. Thread one is right.

2. Thread two is right.

3. Both thread one and two are right.

4. Both thread one and two are wrong.

5. We are missing something,

 

[BufferBear Bitcoin Bull]

The word is that I have a mini rebellion on my hands with many managers not wanting to return 4 days a week once restrictions have been lifted.  Their role cannot easily be performed WFH (frontline) so I do not understand the fuss.  It has been harder delivering a service during the pandemic but many have enjoyed the flexibility given the demands.

[Will!]

5 hours ago, Timm said:

 

 

 

I love this thread.

As someone who’s been ‘core’ from the word go I find it vicariously fascinating.  Not least because where I live commuters used to buy quite a lot of the houses.

[spyguy]

11 hours ago, scepticus said:

The chaos of all this is fun to watch.

Just when everyone is back working 3 days/week at the office, there will be a new WFH directive due to variants, hospitalisations etc. Or in any given office, a few positive tests and in-office transmissions will occur and that'll be game over for the office.

Doesn't matter whether one agrees with lockdowns or not, people will vote with their feet, and the fact is the majority of productive working age people are not anti-lockdown.

Less the office, more using the Tube.

Cant think of anywhere where the ambient atmosphere is more like the human lungs than the tube in summer - hot moist and horrible.

Chuck in the hordes from all corners of the world piling into London ... Wonderful.

 

 

[spyguy]

9 hours ago, Roman Roady said:

I guess the owners of the commercial properties have friends in high places. The status quo must be preserved …until their positions have been liquidated for a profit at least 

Oh you are going too wheels within wheels, secret handshakes ...

Commercial LL just have longer leases - i believe  5 years is the average.

And theyve been handed almost free UKGOV cash to pay for  stuff.

Gov cash will be removed, leases will expire tenants will walk.

 

 

 

[Roman Roady]

9 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I've quit jobs before having found out a few.

They say that people dont leave jobs, they leave managers.

9 hours ago, wsn03 said:

We've delivered a whole phase of a project remotely as contractors. There's talk of us having to go back to the office. All of the meetings we have are with people in other parts of the world often at unsociable hours...suits home working  well.

 

The only reason for having us back is so some middle manager can say "I can see you". We will be back to fighting over meeting rooms.

 

All of us will resign if it happens, we have too many home based options. I've been told they'll about turn if we do...we shall see.

I have been WFH all through COVID...not been into the office once. So personally I can see how a project can easily be delivered via WFH but that has been a previously established team completing a project. I am not so sure about joining a new team who have never met each other face to face; that would be a real management challenge IMPO. Perhaps this will be the filter that sorts the management wheat from the chaff.

[sta100]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🙂 No a Director (CIO) in a young fast growing organisation but long in the tooth enough to know that no matter how good you are or what your HR policies are it is the personal relationships you build with the more senior staff that govern who gets ahead.

I hope it goes well for you, its a good move for anyone who has managed to progress as far as they want and enjoy their role. One thing to watch for is that it isn't only big corps that act like big corps, my last two jobs have been in start ups and its amazing how quickly they start to mimic corporates and have the same communication and management issues.     

The first thing we did as  a tech startup when we could afford it was get an office. You could google meet 8 9 years ago no problem so it's hardly any different. We had one remote tech because he was cheap - which says it all. But he was never going to be top level.

You cannot be creative that level and work from home. I've had the option for many years and hybrid working is the way to go. I moved to a place specifically for that purpose. Also there are many people that just do not want to work from home because of the isolation. It's unnatural.

[sta100]

I've been hybrid since around 2001. I find it amusing that people are just discovering this is a better way to live.

[iamnumerate]

11 hours ago, dugsbody said:

 

I agree, career progression will be helped by presenteeism. Most people don't realise that being liked is often the difference in promotion, bonus, salary when you're in a very competitive field where everyone around you is talented anyway.

 

Being liked by management is the difference. I have known talented popular people made redundant and replaced by idiots because their management was jealous of them. (An idiot is no threat).

[sta100]

2 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Being liked by management is the difference. I have known talented popular people made redundant and replaced by idiots because their management was jealous of them. (An idiot is no threat).

I think I'm a dinosaur but I made many of my lifelong career contacts who opened doors for me later from going down the pub after work. Perhaps the next gen will manage it different but I just don't see how that can be replaced

[Huggy]

37 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Less the office, more using the Tube.

The tube, and the horrible National Rail experience just before (or after, depending on what time it is), has cemented my love of WFH. In fact my next role will have WFH as one of the "must haves" if my current company doesn't give me a maximum of one day a month in the office.

[hurlerontheditch]

6 minutes ago, sta100 said:

I think I'm a dinosaur but I made many of my lifelong career contacts who opened doors for me later from going down the pub after work. Perhaps the next gen will manage it different but I just don't see how that can be replaced

a lot of younger people don't drink these days. the times are changing 

[sta100]

1 minute ago, hurlerontheditch said:

a lot of younger people don't drink these days. the times are changing 

they don't screw either. huge market for robot companions coming.

[Roman Roady]

31 minutes ago, sta100 said:

Also there are many people that just do not want to work from home because of the isolation. It's unnatural.

Dont forget the relationships between working "partners", where the office affairs kept the wheels on the marriage/relationship. I know of a few at my place that were enjoying 2nd lives shall we say...going away on all those "all so necessary" over night working trips every month or so. That all came to an abrupt halt! Guess who are the ones "who just cant" work from home? Of course the reasons are wrapped up in language that they hope will impress those above them in the food chain: "I need people around me" etc etc, but we all know the real reasons.

Last I heard one notorious pair had concocted ANOTHER site visit abroad...these two PM's wouldn't know one piece of equipment from another but apparently its absolutely vital that they both (of course) go out to visit AGAIN...fly out Monday, back on Friday.

[cbathpc]

14 hours ago, Timm said:

How is this going to fit with the alleged wave of resignations and the apparent labour shortage?

 

Come to the office for 50k per year, or get a remote only job for 30k per year.

 

Welcome to capitalism mother******er

[cbathpc]

13 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Yes. One of the posters on here @Confusion of VIssaid he was involved in such canvassing. I really have my doubts at the results because pretty much all of my network want to work from home as often as possible, though not full time. We want the option to work a full week at home if that is what suits us in a particular week.

My big corp company is pretending that everyone wants to get back to the office, so I've tendered my resignation in favour of somewhere that offers me what I want.

I think thats what everyone wants really. Pop into the office as and when.

However, how could that possibly ever work? Offices are expensive and keeping them open for the odd person popping in when they fancy a few drinks out in the city after, surely won't work 

[spyguy]

28 minutes ago, sta100 said:

I think I'm a dinosaur but I made many of my lifelong career contacts who opened doors for me later from going down the pub after work. Perhaps the next gen will manage it different but I just don't see how that can be replaced

Pretty much Tyrannosaur.

Ive never done that in ~30 years of work.

When I started, I was the only person under 25. Everyone else was raring to go home - bar a couple of 50yo divorced blokes- and theres no way I was going to the pub with them.

Since then, when Ive been employed, few if any people worked i nth same area and everyone drove, so drinking is a nono.

 

 

[spyguy]

12 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

Dont forget the relationships between working "partners", where the office affairs kept the wheels on the marriage/relationship. I know of a few at my place that were enjoying 2nd lives shall we say...going away on all those "all so necessary" over night working trips every month or so. That all came to an abrupt halt! Guess who are the ones "who just cant" work from home? Of course the reasons are wrapped up in language that they hope will impress those above them in the food chain: "I need people around me" etc etc, but we all know the real reasons.

Last I heard one notorious pair had concocted ANOTHER site visit abroad...these two PM's wouldn't know one piece of equipment from another but apparently its absolutely vital that they both (of course) go out to visit AGAIN...fly out Monday, back on Friday.

My work places places have got steadily more bloke.

Mr spy (public sector) has got steadily more woman, to point where I have to listen to 30minutes whinging about who else has decided to come down with long covid.