Anger is mounting

[desiringonlychild]

@dances with sheeple  I am a woman. I have been catcalled and sexually harassed in the streets more times than I can remember. Was first groped at 15 but not the last time. I don't actually know any woman who hasn't been catcalled/sexually harassed in some way at least a couple of times

It may not be the majority of men, but unless the tiny percentage of men literally spend all their spare time harassing women, it must be a sizeable percentage.

[Si1]

1 hour ago, desiringonlychild said:

@dances with sheeple  I am a woman. I have been catcalled and sexually harassed in the streets more times than I can remember. Was first groped at 15 but not the last time. I don't actually know any woman who hasn't been catcalled/sexually harassed in some way at least a couple of times

It may not be the majority of men, but unless the tiny percentage of men literally spend all their spare time harassing women, it must be a sizeable percentage.

I suspect, over the age of about 20, it is a tiny minority who are constantly at it, whichever is their preferred form of harassment, from male aquaintences over the years that I've known obviously from what blokes discuss in the pub. This extends to taking sexual advantage of ladies in states of alcoholic or emotional weakness, with no f#cks given or boundaries respected, just another notch on the bed frame. It's probably more prevalent in say, under twenties just down to immaturity and not having got to grips with sexual and intimate feelings. But getting over the age of 20 I think it's leaning into being a behavioural or personality disorder.

I believe there are also just as many female sociopaths and A-holes, but they just express it in different avenues, and don't represent such a clear physical threat.

[Big Orange]

34 minutes ago, Si1 said:

.

I believe there are also just as many female sociopaths and A-holes, but they just express it in different avenues, and don't represent such a clear physical threat.

Psycho or narc females are expert weasels at playing the victim when goading males into being vocally aggressive or physically threatening towards them (or they give false accusations of sexual harassment and rape, etc).

[Bruce Banner]

3 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

Neither does resisting arrest, wriggling about and screaming as if you are being battered when people are just trying to lift you to a standing position as one woman that I saw in the footage was doing. 

And why didn't it happen this evening? Because the police were absolutely in the wrong yesterday and Dick is clinging on by the skin of her teeth.

I'm amazed how many posters on this forum are defending the authoritarianism of this government, the acceptance of which is sleepwalking into a police state from which we will not emerge. I can only say that I'm glad I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning and feel sorry for the young of today.

[MARTINX9]

Men account for 75 per cent of all suicides in the UK and represent two thirds of all murder victims.

Earlier last week a 19 year old young man was stabbed to death by a 15 year old in Tottenham. A few days later a 12 year old was arrested for stabbing someone in Ilford. And those scenarios are weekly occurences in London - sometimes more frequently.

One has to ask why were their no protests or vigils or marches on Parliament for that 19 year old kid - or much attention from the national media or politicians? Or indeed much outrage that 12 year old kids are going round stabbing people.

We do have a lot of problems - but the streets of London are also very dangerous for many young men. And they are also statistically far more likely to die on the capital's streets! 

If you are poor, working class and from a less fashionable part of town - why doesn't your life seem to matter as much? 

Edited March 15, 2021 by MARTINX9

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

32 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

Men account for 75 per cent of all suicides in the UK and represent two thirds of all murder victims.

Earlier last week a 19 year old young man was stabbed to death by a 15 year old in Tottenham. A few days later a 12 year old was arrested for stabbing someone in Ilford. And those scenarios are weekly occurences in London - sometimes more frequently.

One has to ask why were their no protests or vigils or marches on Parliament for that 19 year old kid - or much attention from the national media or politicians? Or indeed much outrage that 12 year old kids are going round stabbing people.

We do have a lot of problems - but the streets of London are also very dangerous for many young men. And they are also statistically far more likely to die on the capital's streets! 

If you are poor, working class and from a less fashionable part of town - why doesn't your life seem to matter as much? 

Yes that’s correct according to the ONS statistics:

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

Men were more likely to be victims of CSEW violent crime than women (2% of men compared with 1.3% of women¹, Appendix Table 1). This was true for all types of violence, with the exception of domestic violence, where women were more likely to be victims (0.3% of women and 0.1% of men, Nature of violent crime appendix tables). The year ending March 2020 CSEW showed that:

• stranger violence showed the largest difference in victimisation between men and women (1.2% compared with 0.4% respectively)

• 0.7% of men and 0.5% of women experienced acquaintance violence

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

7 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Yeah I mean if you start making a ruckus about every case then you’re going to be outside for years though. 

 

 

There’s got to be one cop on HPC. Come on, explain this ^^
 

Only person I know who was murdered was a middle aged male. 

[Megadebt]

16 hours ago, Insane said:

Well yes we all know that.

However the more crime that is ignored and the higher up the scale it is ignored the more crime will be committed. Apparently the Police do not get involved with shop lifting if the goods stolen is less than £200 , I am not sure if that is policy or urban myth but have heard it on a number of occasions.  

Last week driving home from work two police cars flew past me with their blue lights on , when I got to the high street at the top of my road they were both outside Savers health and beauty shop. The following day I went in there and was talking to the woman behind the counter saying " I saw you had the Police in last night"

She replied  " Yes shop lifters , we had to push the blue button when they hit one of the women who works here and exaggerate the extent of the attack when we were on the phone to the Police to get them to respond , if we had just said shoplifters had slapped an employee they won't respond" . 

 Shameful.   I'd sooner be the shoplifter than make a false statement against someone with a likely prison sentence / remand to custody inolved.  HMP prisons 23 hr lockdown, so false statement could easily lead to months of solitary confinement torture, before the CPS throw the case out the day before the trail as none of the evidence even made sense.

 Women beaters often get extra judicial treatment inside, on remand is often considered the same as guilty.    

 Forgive being a bit dizzy here, it's a man hormone issue...  

 

 

14 hours ago, Speed1987 said:

Where is the focus on the extremely high suicide rates among men, for 1 female suicide there are 4 males.... nobody gives a hoot.

Women sexually abuse men all the time, particularly in the work place. Men simply don't report it.

Housing, men are at the bottom of the list...

 There is amazing dual standards here...

hang on, did I just say that?   ok I resign.  

 

14 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

The suicide thing is a little more complicated, more women attempt it, more men are successful. Actually successful suicides are more common amongst people with the means, farmers, doctors and vets.

 The salient trait I noticed in three suicides I've known, two in last 18 months - both totally unepected : impulsivity. This same personality flaw held them back in life but allowed them to hit the self abort function. 

[debtlessmanc]

8 hours ago, desiringonlychild said:

@dances with sheeple  I am a woman. I have been catcalled and sexually harassed in the streets more times than I can remember. Was first groped at 15 but not the last time. I don't actually know any woman who hasn't been catcalled/sexually harassed in some way at least a couple of times

It may not be the majority of men, but unless the tiny percentage of men literally spend all their spare time harassing women, it must be a sizeable percentage.

I work at a university and speak to young women a lot, indeed I have a daughter in her twenties at uni  too. Couple of observations. 

i know some young femaie academics who wear fake wedding rings at conferences etc "to keep the number of unwanted advances down".

they also complain at the number of older men who think it is perfectly acceptabe to hit on the them on eg long haul flights.One colleague recently told me this had happened and the guy had proved a real male chauvinist pig by telling her she wasting her time as a woman in science.

I am absolutely astonished  by this stuff, it is like a parallel universe I never knew existed, indeed I have had difficulty believing it. Until...

in lockdown we have taught on line. I share a course with one such academic. After a week or two i joined her zoom lecturer only to find all sorts of totally inappropriate stuff in the chat. I personal message half dozen students to tell then to stf up and it stopped.

afterwards I asked my colleague why she had put up with it (I did not have her down as passive about this stuff), she said she was "used to it" and anyway she was worried about "student response" (promotion rests on this).

my conclusions are similar to others here, a small percentage of men are real a*******s about this. 
my proposed solution would be an other essay, but probsbly some kind of on the spot fine for inappropriate sexist behaviour. A lot of lip service is paid to stopping inappropriate behaviour but try to put eg a member of staff at uni through a disciplinary for it and the gates of hell open as the person will fight for their life to stop the black mark of sexist being attached to them. If it were possible to simply fine someone for low level stuff in the same way as a speeding fine, it might work.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[debtlessmanc]

6 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And why didn't it happen this evening? Because the police were absolutely in the wrong yesterday and Dick is clinging on by the skin of her teeth.

I'm amazed how many posters on this forum are defending the authoritarianism of this government, the acceptance of which is sleepwalking into a police state from which we will not emerge. I can only say that I'm glad I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning and feel sorry for the young of today

You must be old enough to remember the battle of Orgreave Bruce? Is this worse? Pickets were being arrested as they left their house to go there..

Edited March 15, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[debtlessmanc]

4 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Only person I know who was murdered was a middle aged male. 

Sadly only one I knew was ex-girlfriend murdered by stranger. There was a probably a racially motivated aspect too. Known two young men who committed suicide though.

[Insane]

57 minutes ago, Megadebt said:

 Shameful.   I'd sooner be the shoplifter than make a false statement against someone with a likely prison sentence / remand to custody inolved.  HMP prisons 23 hr lockdown, so false statement could easily lead to months of solitary confinement torture, before the CPS throw the case out the day before the trail as none of the evidence even made sense.

 Women beaters often get extra judicial treatment inside, on remand is often considered the same as guilty.    

 Forgive being a bit dizzy here, it's a man hormone issue...  

 

No it is Shameful that the Police would not turn up if only shoplifting and a slap was involved. That is why the shop staff exaggerated the Violence. That is where the shame comes in. Do you really think that a woman working in a shop who confronts a shop lifter gets slapped and then gets no Police support should just take it on the chin ? 

They made no false Statement they lied to get them there the statement comes later.  I do know that the Police will not drag someone off to Prison and remand them there before the case goes in front of Magistrates at this point things can be looked into in more detail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Megadebt]

5 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And why didn't it happen this evening? Because the police were absolutely in the wrong yesterday and Dick is clinging on by the skin of her teeth.

I'm amazed how many posters on this forum are defending the authoritarianism of this government, the acceptance of which is sleepwalking into a police state from which we will not emerge. I can only say that I'm glad I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning and feel sorry for the young of today.

Bruce, I read you are were a helicopter pilot -  are you ex military?

Your apparent business/military background and rebellious nature seems almost incompatible. 

I don't like being told what to do either, but I've always been like that.  

 

 

[Bruce Banner]

13 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

You must be old enough to remember the battle of Orgrieve Bruce? Is this worse? Pickets were being arrested as they left their house to go there..

Indeed, and those scenes crossed my mind as I was typing, but somehow this is worse. Not the level of police violence, nor the number of arrests, but the sheer scale of the police presence in peoples everyday lives if they dare to set foot out of their houses. 

[Megadebt]

4 minutes ago, Insane said:

No it is Shameful that the Police would not turn up if only shoplifting and a slap was involved. That is why the shop staff exaggerated the Violence. That is where the shame comes in. Do you really think that a woman working in a shop who confronts a shop lifter gets slapped and then gets no Police support should just take it on the chin ? 

They made no false Statement they lied to get them there the statement comes later.  I do know that the Police will not drag someone off to Prison and remand them there before the case goes in front of Magistrates at this point things can be looked into in more detail.

No, I don't really think that at all.

Just don't like seeing people do 'bird' for made up offences against women, police response policy isn't the issue here.

A 'petty crime' of pinching a pack of razors and pushing past the assistant blocking the doorway could lead to prison, particularly if the offender has any previous.

After arrest, CPS decide to charge, magistrates will make a bail decision, they don't look into any details ,the case then gets dealt with some months later. Could spend a year on remand awaiting the trial.   

 Making false statements is a mortal sin.

besides...if he's already done a runner, why bother attending?

 

[Bruce Banner]

10 minutes ago, Megadebt said:

Bruce, I read you are were a helicopter pilot -  are you ex military?

Your apparent business/military background and rebellious nature seems almost incompatible. 

I don't like being told what to do either, but I've always been like that.  

 

 

No, not ex military, just a child of the sixties.

[debtlessmanc]

10 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Indeed, and those scenes crossed my mind as I was typing, but somehow this is worse. Not the level of police violence, nor the number of arrests, but the sheer scale of the police presence in peoples everyday lives if they dare to set foot out of their houses. 

yet the number of actual coppers now is a tiny fraction of then.

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

yet the number of actual coppers now is a tiny fraction of then.

At the event, or in general? Because back then, not being a miner, I didn't feel threatened, sickened but not threatened. These days, an authoritarian government is omnipresent in everyone's lives and I most certainly do feel threatened.

[Insane]

5 minutes ago, Megadebt said:

No, I don't really think that at all.

Just don't like seeing people do 'bird' for made up offences against women, police response policy isn't the issue here.

A 'petty crime' of pinching a pack of razors and pushing past the assistant blocking the doorway could lead to prison, particularly if the offender has any previous.

After arrest, CPS decide to charge, magistrates will make a bail decision, they don't look into any details ,the case then gets dealt with some months later. Could spend a year on remand awaiting the trial.   

 Making false statements is a mortal sin.

besides...if he's already done a runner, why bother attending?

 

Wow 

Interesting that you don't like people doing 'bird' as you call it yet you have described this incident and made statements about it which are different to what actual happened and you were not there. To stop people doing 'bird'  unfairly the Police and Courts need to get to the truth '

 That really is the whole point it is not the women in the shop who got slapped the shop lifter me anyone else standing by and the odd poster on the internet will all have their own opinion and take on the incident that is why we need the Police the CPS and the Courts to handle situations like this in a fair and true manner.

But as is the case so often now they don't that is why the staff exaggerated for the Police to come and do their job.

Interesting that this thread is about Violence towards women and when told about a woman being slapped you dismissed the incident of a women being physical attacked and downgraded the attack to pushing past instead of the actual incident which was a woman being slapped. Maybe there is a link with Violence towards woman and men downgrading it. 

[debtlessmanc]

11 minutes ago, Insane said:

Wow 

Interesting that you don't like people doing 'bird' as you call it yet you have described this incident and made statements about it which are different to what actual happened and you were not there. To stop people doing 'bird'  unfairly the Police and Courts need to get to the truth '

 That really is the whole point it is not the women in the shop who got slapped the shop lifter me anyone else standing by and the odd poster on the internet will all have their own opinion and take on the incident that is why we need the Police the CPS and the Courts to handle situations like this in a fair and true manner.

But as is the case so often now they don't that is why the staff exaggerated for the Police to come and do their job.

Interesting that this thread is about Violence towards women and when told about a woman being slapped you dismissed the incident of a women being physical attacked and downgraded the attack to pushing past instead of the actual incident which was a woman being slapped. Maybe there is a link with Violence towards woman and men downgrading it. 

Many years ago a friend witnessed a man beating the hell out of his (female) partner in a park near his house. He phoned the police who showed up pronto and arrested the guy, woman had broken jaw, guy done for GBH.

Friend gave statement described the attacker. The police took statement altered his account so that the height and hair color was exact match to the arrested man (in front of my friend) and gave it to him to sign. They knew that if he had said 5' 10' brown hair' and the guy was actualy 6'  blond then the defence layer would have got the whole thing thrown out.

My friend is of a left wing persuasion but even he let if go. "i knew they had the right man several of us saw him arrested whilst still hitting her"

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[anonguest]

5 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And why didn't it happen this evening? Because the police were absolutely in the wrong yesterday and Dick is clinging on by the skin of her teeth.

I'm amazed how many posters on this forum are defending the authoritarianism of this government, the acceptance of which is sleepwalking into a police state from which we will not emerge. I can only say that I'm glad I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning and feel sorry for the young of today.

Well I'm certainly not one of them - as anyone who has read my posts will know.

[winkie]

6 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And why didn't it happen this evening? Because the police were absolutely in the wrong yesterday and Dick is clinging on by the skin of her teeth.

I'm amazed how many posters on this forum are defending the authoritarianism of this government, the acceptance of which is sleepwalking into a police state from which we will not emerge. I can only say that I'm glad I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning and feel sorry for the young of today.

Could this be in a subtle kind of way be about controling women? Putting them back in their place in an old fashioned way, the dutiful way when a man was the head of the household? What if a woman was told by those that care for her, no you can't walk home from so and so, it is too dangerous on the streets even in early evening, is that about others having more control over her because of a small number of possible male predators out there?........removing individual freedom, to live a life of choice and take own risks.

 

[Bruce Banner]

3 minutes ago, Insane said:

Wow 

Interesting that you don't like people doing 'bird' as you call it yet you have described this incident and made statements about it which are different to what actual happened and you were not there. To stop people doing 'bird'  unfairly the Police and Courts need to get to the truth '

 That really is the whole point it is not the women in the shop who got slapped the shop lifter me anyone else standing by and the odd poster on the internet will all have their own opinion and take on the incident that is why we need the Police the CPS and the Courts to handle situations like this in a fair and true manner.

But as is the case so often now they don't that is why the staff exaggerated for the Police to come and do their job.

Interesting that this thread is about Violence towards women and when told about a woman being slapped you dismissed the incident of a women being physical attacked and downgraded the attack to pushing past instead of the actual incident which was a woman being slapped. Maybe there is a link with Violence towards woman and men downgrading it. 

Just a small point. The thread title is "Anger is mounting" and there is arguably as much anger at the police presence and actions at a vigil for a young woman seemingly murdered by a serving policeman as there is for the murder.

[Si1]

6 hours ago, Big Orange said:

Psycho or narc females are expert weasels at playing the victim when goading males into being vocally aggressive or physically threatening towards them (or they give false accusations of sexual harassment and rape, etc).

Definitely. But they don't murder random strangers on the street like males of a narc persuasion do.

Like DM, I'm astonished at the everyday sexism I've sometimes peaked into. Female narcissism is definitely toxic and dangerous but that's a different debate.

[Bruce Banner]

7 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Many years ago a friend witnessed a man beating the hell out of his (female) partner in a park near his house. He phoned the police who showed up pronto and arrested the guy, woman had broken jaw, guy done for GBH.

Friend gave statement described the attacker. The police took statement altered his account so that the height and hair color was exact match to the arrested man (in front of my friend) and gave it to him to sign. They knew that if he had said 5' 10' brown hair' and the guy was actualy 6'  blond then the defence layer would have got the whole thing thrown out.

My friend is of a left wing persuasion but even he let if go. "i knew they had the right man several of us saw him arrested whilst still hitting her"

 

 

The end does not justify the means.

These days, since Blair's government made it possible for people to be tried more than once for the same offence, they can try it on and if the case gets thrown out, have another go.