yelims Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, slawek said: What is the source for this 2% claim? All I can find is 0.7%. Wiki for an example "GNI-based resources, comprising a percentage (around 0.7%) of each member state's gross national income (GNI);" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union They keep regurgitating old lies https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, dryrot said: Sorry - I may have missed your reference. (I find it hard keeping up with this thread) My ref was to the 2% GDP EU country contribution. Ours would be £40bn pa. When you think that furlough cost £66bn - we'd pay that every 18months forever Small beer compared to the £120bn p.a. (optimistic OBR/Treasury estimate) cost of Brexit. Even ignoring that most of that £40bn (assuming the proposals were accepted in full) would come back to the UK. Edited July 5, 2021 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Telegraph shocked that trade barriers create barrieres to trade: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/05/mystery-disappearing-imports-eu/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Telegraph shocked that trade barriers create barrieres to trade: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/05/mystery-disappearing-imports-eu/ Shocking stuff alright The UK was aware that were they to leave the EU SM and CU then such checks would be necessary, as they are for all third countries. The EU has rules on imports that they must meet minimum standards. The UK was involved in creating the current rules before it left. However, the UK has decided to not align itself to the EU's minimum standards and therefore is now faced with a large increase in bureaucracy in order to export into the EU. This was all known by the UK prior to the referendum. This was all known by the UK prior to the UK government triggering Art 50. This was all known by the UK during the transition period. This was all known by the UK as it turned down various EU offers to extend deadlines. The UK is in absolutely no position now to turn around and suggest that this is somehow unfair or shocking. When you attach electrodes to own balls and run some current you get shocked 😮 Edited July 5, 2021 by yelims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, kzb said: That's the whole point though, they are putting up the GNI-based contribution to 2% (from 1.4%) Yes that is a gross contribution and some EU spending in the UK would happen (subsidising rich landowners chiefly). However there are no more rebates with this new EU budget, so it is inevitable that our net contribution would increase very substantially. There is also a range of exciting new EU taxes planned, one of which is the financial transactions tax, which would hit the UK disproportionately. That is another lie. Can you guys check your sources? They are increasing a limit to 2%, not actual GNI-based contributions. The increase from 1.4% to 2% is for guarantees of Covif bonds, it means no additional payments from members to the EU. In the previous budget the limit was 1.2% and GNI-based contributions were around 0.6%-0.7%. The difference 0.5-0.6% was because actual funding requirements were lower (around 0.9%-1%) than the limit and the member contributions (light blue bar on the second graph) aren't the only source of funding (they are around 70% of all funding). https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD0000000000510750/Financing_the_EU's_recovery%3A_Increased_budget_ceil.pdf?undefined&realload=K1JfnkRETrIuIpOpC0SeZkFSyA~kDDSy/3KE5T5vAekOkmzOpuHP5aXKPpekY/bp https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/PL/ALL/?uri=CELEX:52018SC0172 Edited July 5, 2021 by slawek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 5 hours ago, yelims said: It's obvious that if you were born here and your parents were born here, then you're not an immigrant. What were their other options (given there's a bit of latitude in the rules based on grand parentage)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, 24gray24 said: It's obvious that if you were born here and your parents were born here, then you're not an immigrant. What were their other options (given there's a bit of latitude in the rules based on grand parentage)? UK doesn’t have jus soli laws, being born in uk doesn’t entitle a child to citizenship (subjecthood?) Anyways I was pointing out that the irony of English Brexiteers moaning about immigration while cheering on a squad made of immigrants is very strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, yelims said: UK doesn’t have jus soli laws, being born in uk doesn’t entitle a child to citizenship (subjecthood?) Anyways I was pointing out that the irony of English Brexiteers moaning about immigration while cheering on a squad made of immigrants is very strong. But they're not immigrants. It's just propaganda. Besides, you're not even having to put up with it... thank God we're still in lockdown is all I can say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Why 6m settlement applications doesn’t mean 6m EU citizens live in the UK Last week, the Home Office announced it had received 6m applications for the EU settlement scheme, prompting some to conclude the number of Europeans living in the UK was almost double previous estimates. The University of Oxford Migration Observatory have said the exceptionally high number of applications is not a measure of population, and could include millions not living in the country at the moment. The ONS says its “best estimate” is still that there are 3.5 million EU and EEA citizens living in the UK, closer to the original number that gave the EU citizens’ campaign group the3million, its name in 2016. The number could include millions who do not live in the country who may be taking out an insurance policy in the event they want to return to the UK in future visa-free. Guardian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, rollover said: Why 6m settlement applications doesn’t mean 6m EU citizens live in the UK Last week, the Home Office announced it had received 6m applications for the EU settlement scheme, prompting some to conclude the number of Europeans living in the UK was almost double previous estimates. The University of Oxford Migration Observatory have said the exceptionally high number of applications is not a measure of population, and could include millions not living in the country at the moment. The ONS says its “best estimate” is still that there are 3.5 million EU and EEA citizens living in the UK, closer to the original number that gave the EU citizens’ campaign group the3million, its name in 2016. The number could include millions who do not live in the country who may be taking out an insurance policy in the event they want to return to the UK in future visa-free. Guardian I have been repeating this tens of times already but idiots on the migration threat still getting excited about the number of the settlement schema applications as evidence there is over 5m EUs in the UK. I doubt Migration Observatory or ONS will change their minds. They will think it is a conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) I personally know a fair few number of western EU in high paying jobs that have left. They got their settlement status and are gone, others are contemplating. Anecdotal, but I for sure know that it won't be as easy now for UK companies to hire those highly skilled people as it was by inviting them as it used to be. Edited July 5, 2021 by Freki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryrot Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, slawek said: That is another lie. Can you guys check your sources? They are increasing a limit to 2%, not actual GNI-based contributions. The increase from 1.4% to 2% is for guarantees of Covif bonds, it means no additional payments from members to the EU. Thx for the info. So the increase is to 2% - but only guarantee of a loan. (Germanys contribution will go up 42% - Merkels parting gift https://www.dw.com/en/germany-eu-coronavirus-budget-increase/a-53806800 ) Wrt the guarantee for the Covid loan, I can see there is no upfront cost. It will only be imposed if those who lent the Euro750Bn want their money back. >>> Will you guarantee a £1m loan for my next BTL purchase? after all, your not putting any real money in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 more feel good news from Brussels https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/05/eu-official-keeps-pension-despite-sacked-theft-sexual-abuse/ A European Union official was sacked for theft and sexual abuse but allowed to keep his pension, a disciplinary report obtained by the Daily Telegraph has revealed. A second official, who had "a large number of unauthorised absences, systematically refused to work and did not respect the instructions of the hierarchy” was fired in 2020 after leaking documents, the internal report said. Astonishingly, he too was also allowed to keep his lucrative pension, which is one of the major perks of serving Brussels as an EU civil servant. The disciplinary panel said it spared the bureaucrat dismissed for theft and sexual abuse further punishment because it “took into account the state of mental health of the official, as an attenuating circumstance”. A retired official did have his pension docked, by £1,200 a month for two years, after using his private email address to send 56 emails “to insult and defame” commission staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 47 minutes ago, dryrot said: Thx for the info. So the increase is to 2% - but only guarantee of a loan. (Germanys contribution will go up 42% - Merkels parting gift https://www.dw.com/en/germany-eu-coronavirus-budget-increase/a-53806800 ) Wrt the guarantee for the Covid loan, I can see there is no upfront cost. It will only be imposed if those who lent the Euro750Bn want their money back. >>> Will you guarantee a £1m loan for my next BTL purchase? after all, your not putting any real money in! This 42% increase was an estimate based on early budget proposal from June 2020. There was a lot haggling since then. As for the guarantee, roughly a half of the money from bond issuance will be distributed as loans another half as grants. So in theory the EU only need a half money to pay the bonds at the maturity. The repayment will take over 30y starting from 2028, so that will around 13bln per year, a few percent of their annual budget.The EU has proposals how to increase their funding sources using carbon border adjustment mechanism and the Emissions Trading System and a digital levy. Other potential future sources are a Financial Transaction Tax, a financial contribution linked to the corporate sector or a new common corporate tax base. https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/about_the_european_commission/eu_budget/factsheet_3_general_14.04.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Freki said: I personally know a fair few number of western EU in high paying jobs that have left. They got their settlement status and are gone, others are contemplating. Anecdotal, but I for sure know that it won't be as easy now for UK companies to hire those highly skilled people as it was by inviting them as it used to be. Friends of ours, a French family, didn't even stick around to apply for the settled status. They left a while back. I know a few from our office who took relocation into the continental hub too when offered a few years back. All anecdotal and of course I know many who stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: more feel good news from Brussels https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/05/eu-official-keeps-pension-despite-sacked-theft-sexual-abuse/ A European Union official was sacked for theft and sexual abuse but allowed to keep his pension, a disciplinary report obtained by the Daily Telegraph has revealed. A second official, who had "a large number of unauthorised absences, systematically refused to work and did not respect the instructions of the hierarchy” was fired in 2020 after leaking documents, the internal report said. Astonishingly, he too was also allowed to keep his lucrative pension, which is one of the major perks of serving Brussels as an EU civil servant. The disciplinary panel said it spared the bureaucrat dismissed for theft and sexual abuse further punishment because it “took into account the state of mental health of the official, as an attenuating circumstance”. A retired official did have his pension docked, by £1,200 a month for two years, after using his private email address to send 56 emails “to insult and defame” commission staff. lmao those Tory politicians should also be done for moonlighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, pig said: lmao those Tory politicians should also be done for moonlighting Glad we were in a place with similar standards, why leave a union in which the torys felt at ease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, yelims said: They keep regurgitating old lies https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ We would be paying substantially more, net, there can be little doubt over that. Edited July 5, 2021 by kzb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 6 hours ago, kzb said: We would be paying substantially more, net, there can be little doubt over that. More of what for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 MPs want to hand Post-Brexit policing of the City over to watchdogs MPs on the Treasury Select Committee (TSC) backed Government plans to transfer EU rules on financial services to UK regulators’ rule books. Much of the financial services regulation that dictates what can occur in the City of London been handed back to Westminster, but now MPs want to hand over responsibility to City organisations such as the Financial Conduct Authority. Chaor Stride said: “As the UK forges a new post-Brexit future, the Government’s approach to financial services regulation will be critical. It needs to get the balance right between effective scrutiny and ensuring that the regime is nimble and light touch where possible.” He added: “Retaining the independence of our financial services regulators from political interference is essential to ensuring the UK remains a world-leading financial centre.” msn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 12 hours ago, slawek said: This 42% increase was an estimate based on early budget proposal from June 2020. There was a lot haggling since then. As for the guarantee, roughly a half of the money from bond issuance will be distributed as loans another half as grants. So in theory the EU only need a half money to pay the bonds at the maturity. The repayment will take over 30y starting from 2028, so that will around 13bln per year, a few percent of their annual budget.The EU has proposals how to increase their funding sources using carbon border adjustment mechanism and the Emissions Trading System and a digital levy. Other potential future sources are a Financial Transaction Tax, a financial contribution linked to the corporate sector or a new common corporate tax base. https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/about_the_european_commission/eu_budget/factsheet_3_general_14.04.pdf Come on, get real. Firstly it's the start of a wedge. Start small get bigger. Secondly those "loans" won't be paid. What this really is, is the beginning of perpetual transfer payments from North to south. (In the same way uk has perpetual transfer payments to scotland) Given the alternative of the south going bankrupt and depopulating, it's not really surprising. But let's not kid ourselves it's going to be small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) I just read a bit from Michael Barnier that not only are the EU worried about the UK backtracking on the NIP but also now on the agreement on fishing. So, you know this deafening silence you hear from brexiters after our fisherman were sold out? Well, that silence will soon be broken when the UK starts to weaponise the fishing agreement too. Suddenly brexiters will really start to care about fishing again. Edited July 6, 2021 by dugsbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 41 minutes ago, 24gray24 said: Come on, get real. Firstly it's the start of a wedge. Start small get bigger. Secondly those "loans" won't be paid. What this really is, is the beginning of perpetual transfer payments from North to south. (In the same way uk has perpetual transfer payments to scotland) Given the alternative of the south going bankrupt and depopulating, it's not really surprising. But let's not kid ourselves it's going to be small. And let's not forget still peanuts compared to the cost of leaving the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 44 minutes ago, 24gray24 said: Come on, get real. Firstly it's the start of a wedge. Start small get bigger. Secondly those "loans" won't be paid. What this really is, is the beginning of perpetual transfer payments from North to south. (In the same way uk has perpetual transfer payments to scotland) Given the alternative of the south going bankrupt and depopulating, it's not really surprising. But let's not kid ourselves it's going to be small. As for now the plan is financially sound. Germany is against fiscal transfers and they will resist going that way at least for now. So your scenario is possible but not given. Personally i think there should be more fiscal transfers. The EU should become a full federal state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 9 hours ago, kzb said: We would be paying substantially more, net, there can be little doubt over that. The cost would probably go up from 9.5bln to around 10-15bln. mostly because of losing the rebate (this is on you). It would still be significantly less than the cost of Brexit, which is around 100bln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.