miguel Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Testing has shown that the AZN vaccine is more effective with a longer delay. Also more effective with a half dose followed by the second full dose. Does that mean the shots they are currently giving are a half dose or are they intending to give the less effective two full doses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: The AZN vaccine is already available for cost, the have built/sub contracted the capacity produce 2.5billion doses a year and the being supplied it free to poor countries. And it has cut the aid budget, That's not as efficient as making the plans available and letting everyone who wants to make it, make it. The issue now is time more than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) The interesting thing for me to emerge from this latest debacle is how many remainers took a balanced view and did not side with the EU unreservedly. Contrast that with the multiple cockups by our government and the unreserved support shown by brexiteers. Shows me the remainers take a more balanced view and are swayed by the facts on the ground. Wish leavers would do the same instead of being driven by ideology and a hatred of the EU. Edited February 1, 2021 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Save me from the madness! Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, yelims said: 20% received second doze instead of 1% in UK Tories politically motivated decision to greatly stretch out 2nd doze in order to claim that they are doing better than neighbours as a brexit “win” despite scientific advice not to do so and stick to recommend interval, May yet result in yet another UK originating variation of this disease, potentially resistant to vaccines. There's a great interview on vaccination strategy with a Professor and former immunisation director of the NHS here about 16 mins in if you want to skip the bit about the political dispute Summary, longer gap better for herd immunity, if you have 2 million jabs and immunise 1 million people twice at 95% success you have a lower number of people protected then 2 million once at even a low efficacy of 60%. Edit: usually with vaccine the second dose is more effective the bigger the gap (up to a point) think of childhood immunisation which are given with 1 year gaps Edited February 1, 2021 by Save me from the madness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Germany going to go round the EU and buy Russian Vaccines? Guardian front page Fran Lawther Germany may consider using Russian and Chinese vaccines in an effort to boost levels of vaccination in the country, regional leaders have suggested. In a sign of how much pressure the country’s political leaders are under amid a stalling vaccine rollout, Bavaria’s state premier Markus Söder said Germany should look at approving Sputnik V and Chinese jabs. German health minister Jens Spahn also signalled he was open to using Russian and Chinese vaccines if they are approved by EU regulators. In an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeiting, he said those vaccines could help with ending the pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Save me from the madness! Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, IMHAL said: The interesting thing for me to emerge from this latest debacle is how many remainers took a balanced view and did not side with the EU unreservedly. Contrast that with the multiple cockups by our government and the unreserved support show by brexiteers. Shows me the remainers take a more balanced view and are swayed by the facts on the ground. Wish leavers would do the same instead of being driven by ideology and a hatred of the EU. There's definitely Brexiteer extremists, who are blind to mistakes. This thread has recently shown that remainer/rejoinder extremists (you are one) also exist who can't stand to see the UK do well independently and refuse to admit even when it is clear the UK has done well in an area (such an admission wouldn't mean the EU needs to be instantly disbanded by the way, its possible and desirable for both to be successful). Notice all the international condemnation on just the vaccine part (ignore the article 16 part) is still against the EU commission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Save me from the madness! Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: That's not as efficient as making the plans available and letting everyone who wants to make it, make it. The issue now is time more than anything else. These are not production lines that can just be stood up switched on, and then switched off a couple of months later. It's millions and millions of investment to gear up. Understandably given the nature of medicine / vaccine there are incredibly high standards, huge amount of auditability etc. Why don't you direct your frustration at one of the for profit vaccine manufacturers currently milking this situation (perhaps you could target German's BioNTech if you think secret recipes should be being handed out for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said: There's definitely Brexiteer extremists, who are blind to mistakes. This thread has recently shown that remainer/rejoinder extremists (you are one) also exist who can't stand to see the UK do well independently and refuse to admit even when it is clear the UK has done well in an area (such an admission wouldn't mean the EU needs to be instantly disbanded by the way, its possible and desirable for both to be successful). Notice all the international condemnation on just the vaccine part (ignore the article 16 part) is still against the EU commission? Well, I'm not sure about that. I have shown that I recognise when the EU does wrong, clearly in this case they where hot headed. As for the UK doing well....you could help me out here and point out where the UK have achieved the economic benefits that were promised by vote leave . Happy to acknowledge that if it is the case...fill yer boots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 47 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said: Who knows how much higher production could have been if not for a raid on the EU factory and week long distraction to the AZ top team from all this EU commission bad blood distracting the AZ organisation away from its top priority of producing vaccine? Who knows, it looks like last week AZ top priority was to sell EU's vaccines at higher cost to other clients, but during the weekend the have second thought about it and changed their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 38 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said: There's a great interview on vaccination strategy with a Professor and former immunisation director of the NHS here about 16 mins in if you want to skip the bit about the political dispute Summary, longer gap better for herd immunity, if you have 2 million jabs and immunise 1 million people twice at 95% success you have a lower number of people protected then 2 million once at even a low efficacy of 60%. Edit: usually with vaccine the second dose is more effective the bigger the gap (up to a point) think of childhood immunisation which are given with 1 year gaps So there is no peer reviewed scientific evidence backed by large population studies that spacing out the second doze of this particular vaccine way longer than manufacturer recommended period is effective strategy? just opinions of someone on YouTube? uk government once again is playing with health of population at home and abroad, just pray this ******wittery does not result in a vaccine resistant strain, UK already given the world a faster spreading more contagious strain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) https://www.thejournal.ie/biontech-pfizer-eu-75-million-vaccines-5341322-Feb2021/ Pfizer will provide extra vaccines, so a PR disaster for AZ who got greedy and PR coup for Pfizer. With EU in middle holding the balls up to fire of a company who thought they could avoid their contractually agreed promises. AZ also agreed now to send more dozes! EU working for Eu citizens, imagine that! Must be a strange concept for Brexiteers so often ridden over by Westminster red buses Edited February 1, 2021 by yelims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said: These are not production lines that can just be stood up switched on, and then switched off a couple of months later. It's millions and millions of investment to gear up. Understandably given the nature of medicine / vaccine there are incredibly high standards, huge amount of auditability etc. Why don't you direct your frustration at one of the for profit vaccine manufacturers currently milking this situation (perhaps you could target German's BioNTech if you think secret recipes should be being handed out for free? Source please? a) AZ isn't going to have/make any profit b) Other for profit vaccine manufacturers currently milking this situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drat Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, rollover said: Who knows, it looks like last week AZ top priority was to sell EU's vaccines at higher cost to other clients, but during the weekend the have second thought about it and changed their mind. Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Drat said: Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Drat said: Source? The EU called for tight controls on coronavirus vaccine exports after top officials all but accused U.K.-based AstraZeneca of cutting supplies intended for EU countries in order to sell doses to other nations at higher prices. politico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, rollover said: The EU called for tight controls on coronavirus vaccine exports after top officials all but accused U.K.-based AstraZeneca of cutting supplies intended for EU countries in order to sell doses to other nations at higher prices. politico So the EU accused someone of something and that means they are guilty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, yelims said: Sources? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-24/u-k-defends-vaccine-dosing-delays-as-approach-gains-traction ALL Vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: So the EU accused someone of something and that means they are guilty? We don't know! My response was to Drat asking me for "source". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Read the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: That's not as efficient as making the plans available and letting everyone who wants to make it, make it. The issue now is time more than anything else. Probably not. They have been making factories and securing the supply line for 9 months now. Anyone who wanted to make it already is. Opening the IP will not make any difference for six months if ever, as it will take that much time to start up. The EU started in August and look where they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 40 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said: These are not production lines that can just be stood up switched on, and then switched off a couple of months later. It's millions and millions of investment to gear up. Understandably given the nature of medicine / vaccine there are incredibly high standards, huge amount of auditability etc. Why don't you direct your frustration at one of the for profit vaccine manufacturers currently milking this situation (perhaps you could target German's BioNTech if you think secret recipes should be being handed out for free? Yes, we've invested 1 billion in vaccines so far. Nobody needs to be told how expensive it is. Millions and millions is pissant by comparision. No, I don't believe that it's impossible for others to get on stream quickly. Where there is a will there is a way. And besides, why make that choice for them ? Why not just give them the receipe and let their efforts or lack of them decide whether they will succeed ? As for the for profit, I would, if it were easier to get hold of the IP, but in this particular case the IP is probably in the individual hands of the vaccine manufacturers rather than a public body. There is also the issue that the AZ vaccine is more suited to be a "world vaccine" because it is easier to store etc, even though it may not quite have the same level of efficiacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, rollover said: We don't know! My response was to Drat asking me for "source". Just going to leave this here Uk already restricting medicines since first of January https://www.gov.uk/guidance/parallel-export-and-hoarding-of-restricted-medicines eu retaliates against this, yet they are the bad guy’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Probably not. They have been making factories and securing the supply line for 9 months now. Anyone who wanted to make it already is. Opening the IP will not make any difference for six months if ever, as it will take that much time to start up. The EU started in August and look where they are now. You're implying that it is harder to copy something, and take other peoples information on something than it is to do something from scratch. Sorry, but in my extensive development experience (not vaccines) that is wrong. Copying stuff does not get you a platform to build on things going forwards, as you don't understand the why. But it is a faster way of achieving a well defined goal than having to start from scratch. Often much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 hours ago, pig said: That’s a bit of an overblown reaction and secondly It shows quite clearly you’re never ‘out of the reach’ of your neighbours. Then perhaps Ursula von der Leyen should have tried being diplomatic to her neighbour to start with instead of whipping up a populist storm against AstraZeneca and the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 40 minutes ago, rollover said: Who knows, it looks like last week AZ top priority was to sell EU's vaccines at higher cost to other clients, but during the weekend the have second thought about it and changed their mind. That pure rubbish. The contract is for a production line at no profit. The UK paid more to get its production up as fast as possible and signed a contract as fast as it could. The EU preferred to haggle and reduce the cost of the no-profit production line. AZN don't sell, they deliver. They have been paid in advance by the UK but not fully paid in advance by the EU. Delivering in the EU would provide actual income, whereas the UK have already paid for it. The additional income from delivery in the UK is nil. And you do realise that a 300million euro, non profit vaccine deal is peanuts to a £95billion pharma company don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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