pig Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, crouch said: Well logically you may be strictly right. If you vote against something like this you do implicitly assume that the future would be better with option A rather than B. But this I think is a trivial way of looking at things. In any case if my views had any salience why would I assume that the future would be any better when there is no basis for doing so by my own principles other than a pure act of faith? My, and many others, reasons for voting to leave the EU were mainly non economic so did not rely on seeing a better economic future and were based on history and the revealed direction of travel of the EU. Most people who voted Remain probably did so because they considered Brexit to be economically harmful. But that has no salience unless you attach numbers, and they have to be numbers over the long term. But you cannot forecast the long term future as I keep saying within even broad limits so the contention that Brexit is economically harmful cannot be demonstrated - repeat cannot be demonstrated - although in the event it may of course be right. I make no counter assertion - I don't have a clue whether Brexit will leave folk better or worse off over the long term - but neither does anyone else and that is all I'm saying. Yes, yes, been there done that In short you’re in a decaying orbit around a nationalist black hole nothing else matters, elementary sophistry is admissable but common sense be dammed. It’s more a question of how far you’re prepared to go with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Quote DUP: Deal 'drives a coach and horses through sanctity of Belfast Agreement' The DUP statement goes on to say that "some progress" has been made over the issue of consent. But it says "the government has departed from the principle that these arrangements must be subject to the consent of both unionists and nationalists in Northern Ireland. "These arrangements would be subject to a rolling review but again the principles of the Belfast Agreement on consent have been abandoned in favour of majority rule on this single issue alone. "These arrangements will become the settled position in these areas for Northern Ireland. "This drives a coach and horses through the professed sanctity of the Belfast Agreement." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-50079596 Violates the GFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So without the DUP on board (maybe they are holding out for a sufficiently large bung?) some of the ERG will reject the deal, there isnt a cat in hells chance its going to pass. So what happens next? Boris requests extension and GE - Campaign based around people vs parliament (probably the plan all along) Boris ignores the Benn act and lands up in court VonC VonC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 DUP now saying they won't just abstain, they will vote against BJs deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said: DUP now saying they won't just abstain, they will vote against BJs deal. It's DOA then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chunketh said: It's DOA then Unless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: Fortunately for them, my wife and children have dual nationality. I have grandparents right in a couple of countries, though annoyingly not great grand parents right in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Bruce Banner said: Unless... No chance ANY amount of money would persuade the DUP to sell out on 400 years of history. This deal is horrendous for the Unionists, they are defending the GFA agreement, for gods sake, because they can see where this would lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: DUP now saying they won't just abstain, they will vote against BJs deal. Boris' deal is basically a Sinn Fein deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I imagine there will no Confidence and Supply agreement in future between DUP and ERG, total betrayal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: No chance ANY amount of money would persuade the DUP to sell out on 400 years of history. This deal is horrendous for the Unionists, they are defending the GFA agreement, for gods sake, because they can see where this would lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 We could sell Ni back to the republic to fund a no deal Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Boris' deal is basically a Sinn Fein deal! Seven Sinn Fein MP's to make an appearance on Saturday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chunketh said: So without the DUP on board (maybe they are holding out for a sufficiently large bung?) some of the ERG will reject the deal, there isnt a cat in hells chance its going to pass. So what happens next? Boris requests extension and GE - Campaign based around people vs parliament (probably the plan all along) Boris ignores the Benn act and lands up in court VonC VonC I think this article (pre this afternoons news) puts it nicely. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/boris-johnsons-plans-fall-apart The ERG want to “deregulate at home in order to strike sweetheart deal with Trump and emerging markets” (arguably the other way round!) Without this they won’t vote for Brexit, with this Labour won’t vote for Brexit. This is a key reason for blaming everybody else as if you decoupled the ERG from Brexit we’d be out of the EU and Corbs would be building his train sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, longgone said: We could sell Ni back to the republic to fund a no deal Brexit. We could sell Norfolk into slavery to fund our coke habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So far... Quote London retains global finance throne amid Brexit chaos... ... The cataclysmic warnings during the 2016 referendum that London would lose its financial throne if it voted to leave the European Union (EU) have, so far, been proven wrong. London is still the world’s banker, only bigger by some measures. “London is extraordinarily resilient and its future as a finance centre is secure because what we have here is unique,” Lipton told Reuters on the 61st floor of 22 Bishopsgate, set to become western Europe’s second tallest skyscraper when it opens next year. In the year to June, London has attracted more cross border commercial real estate investment than any other city. It has overtaken New York as destination for fintech investment and it has increased its dominance of the world’s $6.6 trillion daily foreign exchange market. Since the vote to leave the EU, Britain has leapfrogged the United States to become the largest centre for trading interest rate swaps, despite calls by ex-French President Francois Hollande to end London’s dominance in clearing euro-denominated derivatives... https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-finance-analysis/london-retains-global-finance-throne-amid-brexit-chaos-idUSKBN1WU0I8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: We could sell Norfolk into slavery to fund our coke habit. Most of the uk has already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurlerontheditch Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: No chance ANY amount of money would persuade the DUP to sell out on 400 years of history. This deal is horrendous for the Unionists, they are defending the GFA agreement, for gods sake, because they can see where this would lead. its ironic the DUP opposed the GFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The process of making new friends is a lot like dating – you meet someone you like, and you schedule a time to see them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Do you have a link for the graph below... On 07/10/2019 at 12:20, slawek said: The theoretical margin error (90% confidence interval) of a lead for a single poll was around +/-8% . It was a double the error for the percentage of people supporting Remain (or Leave), 1% increase in Remain decreases Leave by 1%, so the lead increases by 2%. See below how noisy are single polls … since it seems to undermine a long running narrative? On 14/10/2019 at 10:29, jonb2 said: <Sigh> How many times do I have to post this? There might have been a desire among 10% of the population - IOW the Daily Mail and Telegraph readers. Plus we had Cameron 'seeing off' Farage and the the eternal Euro-septic idiots. But generally the referendum fervour was fired when the dog-whistlers got their brief from their monied masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 EU will not grant any further extension.!!!!!!!!!!! its this deal or no deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Aye, Juncker appears to be ruling out any extension...will focus minds. The great remainer delay might be coming to an end... Edited October 17, 2019 by thehowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: EU will not grant any further extension.!!!!!!!!!!! its this deal or no deal... Where have you read that? Also, VonC and revoke is still a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said: its ironic the DUP opposed the GFA I wonder where the UK would be now if the DUP had been involved with the EU negotiations from 2016? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Chunketh said: Where have you read that? Also, VonC and revoke is still a possibility. Try also the front page of the Gruniad... Wonder if Labour would abstain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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