June 23Rd - What Will You Be Doing?

[CyberNat]

I will see your pic and up the ante with this one..

You don't seem to understand... If Scotland is a member of the EU in its own right then it makes a big difference. Nicola gets invited to all the big summit meetings. She gets her ego stroked by big countries that want her vote for their initiative. She gets to appoint a commissioner. It's a different world.

+1

Oh I agree. I think it is hypocritical to argue for Scottish Independence whilst at the same time support the EU. That is my opinion.

I don't share the same opinion as Nicola Sturgeon on Europe.

That doesn't make the hypocritical views of George Galloway, Nigel Farage or CCC any less hypocritical.

[the gardener]

They are an organised group that has systematically covered up the rape of children.

Of course that's not to say all Catholics are bad people - that would be absurd.

I do think the organisation they are part of is corrupt to the core though. The evidence more than supports that view.

I also don't think everyone that works in a bank is a bad person - but I think the organisation is corrupt to the core.

Exactly the same principle.

Catholics are an organised group? That sounds sinister doesn't it?

Of course football supporters, anglers, WI members, National Trust members etc etc ad nauseum are also organised groups.

Are you suggesting that the prime purpose of the Catholic Church is to abuse children? I wonder if we took a look at it's Articles of Association we would see child abuse listed?

As for large numbers of Priests being abusers. It has been shown that the incidence of offending behaviour amongst Priests is lower than that of the general population.

I'm not suggesting that past events haven't been covered up but this sort of cover-up has happened in other, secular setting. Islington anyone? Politicians have been implicated in such abuse. How many have been brought to justice?

Stop bashing Catholics.

It is strange though how in effect you are holding them in high regard as you seem to believe they shouldn't be subject to the same human failings as everybody else.

[workingpoor]

Over & out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12171049/Revealed-Two-thirds-of-British-voters-are-Eurosceptics-but-they-arent-convinced-we-should-leave.html

[ccc]

Catholics are an organised group? That sounds sinister doesn't it?

Of course football supporters, anglers, WI members, National Trust members etc etc ad nauseum are also organised groups.

Are you suggesting that the prime purpose of the Catholic Church is to abuse children? I wonder if we took a look at it's Articles of Association we would see child abuse listed?

As for large numbers of Priests being abusers. It has been shown that the incidence of offending behaviour amongst Priests is lower than that of the general population.

I'm not suggesting that past events haven't been covered up but this sort of cover-up has happened in other, secular setting. Islington anyone? Politicians have been implicated in such abuse. How many have been brought to justice?

Stop bashing Catholics.

It is strange though how in effect you are holding them in high regard as you seem to believe they shouldn't be subject to the same human failings as everybody else.

Where did I suggest the prime purpose of the catholic church was to abuse children ?

Please stop making stuff up.

Also where am I 'bashing catholics' ?

I am 'bashing' the catholic religion - not individuals.

I will say what I want and if you don't like it fine - that's up to you. I am quite within my rights to state I think the catholic church is a horrendous organisation that deserves all the abuse it gets.

If you don't agree - fine that's your opinion. I disagree.

[SNACR]

Can we all agree Scientology is the shizzle?

[ccc]

Can we all agree Scientology is the shizzle?

Its fantastic. I want to be transported in a DC9 into a volcano - sounds amazing !!

Anyway this is all rather off topic for this thread.

[AThirdWay]

Over & out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12171049/Revealed-Two-thirds-of-British-voters-are-Eurosceptics-but-they-arent-convinced-we-should-leave.html

This is far more 'trustworthy' than the recent snap polls imo, and how I see the vote ending up. (Project) Fear of the unknown will kick in, we'll vote to stay in.

[Errol]

Sheep will always vote to stay where they are in the field, rather than go somewhere else.

[long time lurking]

This is far more 'trustworthy' than the recent snap polls imo, and how I see the vote ending up. (Project) Fear of the unknown will kick in, we'll vote to stay in.

I`m for out but looking at the BBC propaganda machine over the last few days i think you may well be right

Astonmartin just announced they are building a new factory in South Wales ,the BBC interview with the MD of Aston soon turned into EU scaremongering from the BBC`s side ,to be fair the guy from aston was having none of it he basically said it had sweet FA to do with aston it`s down to the electorate...he looked right pissed off

[the gardener]

Where did I suggest the prime purpose of the catholic church was to abuse children ?

Please stop making stuff up.

Also where am I 'bashing catholics' ?

I am 'bashing' the catholic religion - not individuals.

I will say what I want and if you don't like it fine - that's up to you. I am quite within my rights to state I think the catholic church is a horrendous organisation that deserves all the abuse it gets.

If you don't agree - fine that's your opinion. I disagree.

Yes but you single out two religions, Catholicism and I'm guessing Islam as the worst whilst ignoring any other incidents either in people and organisations of other faiths or none.

You haven't addressed the fact that the percentage of Priests found to have paedo preferences is lower Tha in gen pop. Also the absolute number of Priests involved is very small, numbering in the mid hundreds worldwide.

Care to take a guess at how many child sex offenders are in prison/have served time over the last 50 years and also the numbers never caught?

From recent memory footballers, tv personalities and teachers are by far the worst offenders.

Schools/the education system. There's an organisation Rotten to the core.

[long time lurking]

Yes but you single out two religions, Catholicism and I'm guessing Islam as the worst whilst ignoring any other incidents either in people and organisations of other faiths or none.

You haven't addressed the fact that the percentage of Priests found to have paedo preferences is lower Tha in gen pop. Also the absolute number of Priests involved is very small, numbering in the mid hundreds worldwide.

Care to take a guess at how many child sex offenders are in prison/have served time over the last 50 years and also the numbers never caught?

From recent memory footballers, tv personalities and teachers are by far the worst offenders.

Schools/the education system. There's an organisation Rotten to the core.

I think you need to look at those statements in percentage terms

Mid hundreds of priests worldwide ..how many priests are there worldwide ? compared to the rest of the population of the world/ country if it was converted into percentages i think it would paint a whole new picture

Apples and oranges come to mind

[Habeas Domus]

Something I just figured out

Weekly net cost of being in the EU = £165 Million [source]

Weekly cost of all students tuition fees = £ 411 Million (2.38 million students * £ 9000 p/a)

So if we left the EU we could use the savings to almost halve the costs to students (without even having to do anything about all those chancellors on £300K salaries)

If we excluded further education and foreign students we could probably give every university student free tuition.

So who would you rather give your tax pounds to? French farmers or UK students?

[ccc]

Yes but you single out two religions, Catholicism and I'm guessing Islam as the worst whilst ignoring any other incidents either in people and organisations of other faiths or none.

You haven't addressed the fact that the percentage of Priests found to have paedo preferences is lower Tha in gen pop. Also the absolute number of Priests involved is very small, numbering in the mid hundreds worldwide.

Care to take a guess at how many child sex offenders are in prison/have served time over the last 50 years and also the numbers never caught?

From recent memory footballers, tv personalities and teachers are by far the worst offenders.

Schools/the education system. There's an organisation Rotten to the core.

I didnt single any religion out initially. Someone made a comment about certain commentary about Catholisism - and I replied to that point. Whats wrong with that ?

I really don't get this numbers game above re. priests and sexual offences ? What are you trying to prove ?

The Catholic Church - which is the organisation I am having a go at - systematically - and from the very top COVERED UP priests that were doing this. They moved them to different countries to avoid investigation. They put £10 billion [Or thereabouts] aside for future claims they knew would arise because they knew this was all going on. They even put a plan into place to purchase an Island in the Caribbean to send all their dodgy priests to so they could retire in peace !!

This organisation also - up until the 90's - organised and controlled illegal prisons in Ireland for young girls who had done nothing wrong but to act a bit different - with no judges, no sentences, no rights, nothing until the bods in charge decided they would let them free. Wonderful.

I am not talking about the Spanish inquestition here - I am talking about recent events where the Catholic Church - as an organisation - has been centrally organising and covering up obsece and depraved acts just because they can.

We are not talking individuals here - 'bad eggs' or whatever others may call them. This was from the core.

Say all that you want about footballers, or DJ's or Politicians - I would agree with much of it. That does not however remove the fact that the Catholic Church is a quite horrific organistion - in my opinion - and in the opinion of masses of people who were former members of it.

Again - if you disagree with that - absolutely fine - your opinion. I disagree.

[PopGun]

Sheep will always vote to stay where they are in the field, rather than go somewhere else.

Sometimes it's best to stick if somewhere else is based on false promises. Where fools rush and all that

[Rave]

Unless every voter is betting ,the odds that a bookies give are based on their over-roud ,its has very little to do with the likely out come

At best you can deduce most gamblers who would bet on this want in

The odds are more or less the same on Betfair exchange though, and Betfair have no need to take a position. Betfair markets have an excellent track record of predicting outcomes- hence why I'm so pessimistic at the moment .

[happy_renting]

So, someone please explain to me who, exactly, did Cameron negotiate these concessions with?

Donald Tusk (the unelected, Buggins-turn) EU President, and who else? How were the other EU nations' interests represented? Did each nation have a authoritative representative present, ensuring that all the other nations now, irrevocably, agree to the concessions?

[thecrashingisles]

So, someone please explain to me who, exactly, did Cameron negotiate these concessions with?

Donald Tusk (the unelected, Buggins-turn) EU President, and who else? How were the other EU nations' interests represented? Did each nation have a authoritative representative present, ensuring that all the other nations now, irrevocably, agree to the concessions?

This is the moment Cameron received sealed the deal.

[long time lurking]

The odds are more or less the same on Betfair exchange though, and Betfair have no need to take a position. Betfair markets have an excellent track record of predicting outcomes- hence why I'm so pessimistic at the moment .

They do compete with all the other bookies for custom

Very few bookies or polls for that matter got the general election right i think it`s way to early to read anything into polls surveys /bookies odds

All i know is the propaganda machine AKA the BBC are in overdrive already

[DTMark]

I haven't followed this closely. However from what I heard apparently Cameron may have negotiated some form of opt out for the UK so we don't have to pay in-work benefits to migrants.

Now I am no big fan of immigration especially unchecked immigration in the quantities we have seen.

However this agreement stinks. The way in which the economy of this country has been led to work is that benefits form part of "salary" whether tax credits or help to buy.

This simply disadvantages immigrants, perhaps impossibly so. It confirms their status as second class citizens. It flies in the face of everything that a coordinated immugration policy should aim for.

And it isn't the issue. It isn't my issue nor is it most peoples' issue.

The issue is, or would be, paying out of work benefits to immigrants. People who voluntarily placed themselves in their position.

As I understand it, that isn't in the agreement.

But then most migrants work.

The right answer would be to scrap almost all in work and out of work benefits for absolutely everyone.

That would be fair.

But that's not what's on the table, The government has little desire to move in that direction. Neither this one nor any party.

So Cameron's words simply come across to me as grandstanding of the highest order.

[long time lurking]

I haven't followed this closely. However from what I heard apparently Cameron may have negotiated some form of opt out for the UK so we don't have to pay in-work benefits to migrants.

Thats what he would like you to believe

The fact is at best that would only happen if there was an extreme amount of migration....no one knows how long that piece of rope is ..and no one knows who decides it`s the right length

And from what i can make out it would reduce in work benefits not stop them and these measures only stand for seven years ....this is Dave`s radical reform

[MrPin]

It seems like most people here want out. I'm not sure what benefit that will bring. In fact I'm not sure it will make any difference.

[Riedquat]

It seems like most people here want out. I'm not sure what benefit that will bring. In fact I'm not sure it will make any difference.

"Out" is my default position so I'd need selling "in" quite strongly to vote for remain, and I've not heard any particularly compelling reason to stay. A few economic arguments (which just pander to our ridiculous obsession with all things economic above all others) are about all. And leaving would at least remove a handy scapegoat for the British government.

[geezer466]

Didn't Dave say he would get it down to the tens of thousands.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35658731

Estimated net migration to the UK was 323,000 in the year to September 2015, figures published by the Office for National Statistics show.

So an extra Million on the population every 3 years......

[RentingForever]

It seems like most people here want out. I'm not sure what benefit that will bring. In fact I'm not sure it will make any difference.

Cameron's portraying this as a risky leave or safe remain. But the truth is that remain is a risky option too - the EU is tearing itself apart over immigration, we're facing another Summer of Euro chaos, TTIP will be the final surrender to corporates, and Turkey's entry to the EU can only be a few years away. The remain camp need to tell us what benefit staying will bring, when Cameron's deal means we're now on the sidelines and the rest of the EU will get on with changing the EU in their interests while we watch from the benches.

So both options carry risk. Economy-wise there seem to be good arguments on either side. What swings it for me is that the EU is fundamentally anti-democratic with little hope (now) of us being able to change it; meanwhile our own political system is stuck in a Blairite narrative. Voting leave is the best option to shake things up and rearrange the pieces. Time for a bit of creative destruction.

[ccc]

The 'deal' on immigration and benefits is laughable.

As far as I heard it - wont start for 4 years - will only last for 4 years - and be tapered for those 4 years. Woo ******ing hoo.