"Brexit has failed" - what happens next

[thecrashingisles]

4 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

That might be true. But so what? Perception is greater than truth.

From the world's POV, it's slipping into the fog of irrelevance thanks to its crap government and Brexit. What friends do we have now? We're a laughing stock.

Brexit is turning Britain into a laughing stock, says Siemens UK boss | Brexit | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/01/brexit-britain-siemens-uk-eu

'UK is an international laughing stock': James O'Brien reacts to Brexit latest - LBC
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/uk-is-an-international-laughing-stock-james-obrien-reacts-to-brexit-latest/

What British politics looks like to the rest of the world - The Face
https://theface.com/society/what-british-politics-looks-like-to-rest-world-international-reputation-laughing-stock-liz-truss-rishi-sunak

Brexit deal chaos has made UK 'laughing stock of the world’ | The National
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18703911.brexit-deal-chaos-made-uk-laughing-stock-world/

Opinion: Brexit has made us a laughing stock around the world - Farmers Weekly
https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/opinion-brexit-has-made-us-a-laughing-stock-around-the-world

The National on Twitter: "Today's front page: Brexit Britain now a "laughing stock around the world" + secret UK Government poll puts Yes vote at 56% https://t.co/xRYEG6IJuw" / X

It's curious that someone with an international outlook who is very concerned about our image abroad can only cite British sources about how we are allegedly a laughing stock.

[pig]

7 hours ago, Dweller said:

FFS IT'S CALLED LEAVING THE EU ITS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR ! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html

Former Brexit minister Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg described the memos as a “storm in a teacup” but restated his objections to the checks themselves.

“I don’t think we should be imposing these controls at all,” he told The Independent. “I managed when I was Brexit opportunities minister to delay them because they purely impose costs on British consumers for no real advantage.

“It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to make trade more difficult, and not in the interests of the UK economy.

“I wouldn’t bother with these checks, they’re pointless, and in an inflationary time, a cost to British consumers we could do without.”

 

That is pretty bad. That bad I read this post and actually had to go do my own checks! 

They are refusing to implement Brexit because it is 'inflationary' and a 'cost to the British consumer'.

I mean FFS.

Apparently theres also a worry that in the same way businesses started to give up sending stuff to Europe, vice versa would happen. Was walking through a supermarket yesterday and looking at the shelves it suddenly struck me what might happen.

The WTO issue @Confusion of VIs raised is also correct. RoTW competitors will take a dim view of an artificial advantage so this can't go on forever.

Tories probably can't sort this out - too ludicrous and humiliating a U-turn (but then JRM!), too toxic, too close to an election. Up to Labour to come to some sensible arrangement.

[miguel]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

That's why I used the word "trigger". 

A complaint by a national company is usually the trigger for a state getting involved. Clearly I did not dumb it down enough for you to understand but that's your problem.  

 

 

Oh dear! That's really pssed on traitor boys parade. 

[pig]

7 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It's curious that someone with an international outlook who is very concerned about our image abroad can only cite British sources about how we are allegedly a laughing stock.

Sadly 'abroad' doesn't know the half of it. Actually, thankfully abroad haven't heard of JRM, be impossible to describe him to them anyway lol.

[jonb2]

17 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It's curious that someone with an international outlook who is very concerned about our image abroad can only cite British sources about how we are allegedly a laughing stock.

It's British sources talking about world media reactions - like the Daily Mail. Have some more.

Global media laugh at UK as PM quits... with German TV reporter using some VERY colourful language | Daily Mail Online
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11336045/Trusss-reign-goes-absurd-ridiculous-Foreign-media-laughs-Britain-slams-Tories.html

Britain is a laughing stock ruined on the world stage by our ruling class | HeraldScotland
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/19853622.britain-laughing-stock-ruined-world-stage-ruling-class/

Britain is the ‘laughing stock of Europe’ - SWI swissinfo.ch
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/view-from-switzerland_britain-is-the-laughing-stock-of-europe/43270490

Iron Lady? UK Should Just Hope Liz Truss Isn’t a Laughingstock - Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-09-11/iron-lady-uk-should-just-hope-liz-truss-isn-t-a-laughingstock#xj4y7vzkg

‘New PM, old problems’: Europe’s media reacts to Liz Truss’s first speech as prime minister | Liz Truss | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/07/new-pm-old-problems-europe-media-focuses-on-challenges-facing-liz-truss

The strange case of Britain’s demise
https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/12/12/the-strange-case-of-britains-demise

 

[Confusion of VIs]

27 minutes ago, Lenelby said:

The U.K. is the highest spending nation in NATO after the US so definitely not a backwater. 
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country

The problem seems to be that we are not getting enough bang for our many bucks.

Even as far back as the Iraq/Afghanistan wars US generals were saying that we were no longer a first tier army (after having to be "rescued" in Helmand and Basra).

Later decisions such as building the the world's two biggest midget aircraft carriers at the expense of cutting the Navy's destroyers and frigates haven't helped.

[Confusion of VIs]

Dup

Edited August 3, 2023 by Confusion of VIs

[thecrashingisles]

43 minutes ago, miguel said:

Oh dear! That's really pssed on traitor boys parade. 

Not really. It was just a poor attempt to move the goalposts.

[Dweller]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/04/business-brexit-safety-mark-red-tape-

Money, time, effort all wasted: you can wrap the new red tape three times around the world, one manufacturing boss told me

[dugsbody]

16 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I am spending around half my working time in the EU (outside Berlin), it's a very nice place to live. Each time I come back it is a bit depressing to see how relative living standards are falling here.

I hear this sentiment quite frequently from people who have left the UK, when they return for a visit. Friends living in various places on the continent or in other locations.

I don't want to reveal much because it could dox me (if anyone actually cared) but I have a relative who returned from the continent to the UK for family reasons last year and is miserable. He really doesn't like living here compared to where he was.

I love where I live in the UK, and I still love a lot about it, not least how tolerant we are generally as a nation. But things are just getting worse.

[dugsbody]

12 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Not really. It was just a poor attempt to move the goalposts.

How has brexit made life better for you? Is it working for you?

[Up the spout]

 

[miguel]

15 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Not really. It was just a poor attempt to move the goalposts.

Moving the goalposts. FFS! You really have got a Brex shtty nerve. That is f'kin rich coming from a traitor boy such as you. 

Little wonder you've got no backbone and blow over with a mere hint of a draught. 

[Bob8]

3 hours ago, dugsbody said:

I hear this sentiment quite frequently from people who have left the UK, when they return for a visit. Friends living in various places on the continent or in other locations.

I don't want to reveal much because it could dox me (if anyone actually cared) but I have a relative who returned from the continent to the UK for family reasons last year and is miserable. He really doesn't like living here compared to where he was.

I love where I live in the UK, and I still love a lot about it, not least how tolerant we are generally as a nation. But things are just getting worse.

I live in a bit of Europe that has seen living standards rise hugely in the last decade. Ten years ago, the north west was clearly falling further and further behind. More recently, it is the same in the affluent south east too. 

The UK is still a great place to live, but it is bizarrely old fashioned in some ways that rally holds it back.

[Bob8]

16 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

It's curious that someone with an international outlook who is very concerned about our image abroad can only cite British sources about how we are allegedly a laughing stock.

I mean, if you prefer them not in English:

https://politiken.dk/udland/art8742895/»Tyngdekraften-gælder«

https://www.bt.dk/debat/brexit-kaos-truer-storbritanniens-fremtid

[jonb2]

21 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I mean, if you prefer them not in English:

https://politiken.dk/udland/art8742895/»Tyngdekraften-gælder«

https://www.bt.dk/debat/brexit-kaos-truer-storbritanniens-fremtid

Fecking laughing stock all around the globe.

Severely weakened and stupefied by an infestation of maggots.

[Confusion of VIs]

On the what happens next topic.

We seem to be moving towards a much diluted Brexit, rather than any attempt to rejoin.  

Ignoring the political rhetoric, there is growing support on both sides for reducing border checks by agreeing to remain in alignment with EU rules and regs, rejoining Horizon and even what you could call FoM light (with some Conservatives floating the idea of ? year work visas for all young people).

No doubt there will be no real progress until after the GE but at least the Tories seemed to have paused further digging of their failed Brexit hole.  

[Confusion of VIs]

On 04/08/2023 at 12:36, miguel said:

Moving the goalposts. FFS! You really have got a Brex shtty nerve. That is f'kin rich coming from a traitor boy such as you. 

Little wonder you've got no backbone and blow over with a mere hint of a draught. 

He is a slippery character.

Although amusing, sticking your own goalposts in the ground and them moaning about their placement is not really a great tactic.   

 

[winkie]

On 04/08/2023 at 09:36, dugsbody said:

I hear this sentiment quite frequently from people who have left the UK, when they return for a visit. Friends living in various places on the continent or in other locations.

I don't want to reveal much because it could dox me (if anyone actually cared) but I have a relative who returned from the continent to the UK for family reasons last year and is miserable. He really doesn't like living here compared to where he was.

I love where I live in the UK, and I still love a lot about it, not least how tolerant we are generally as a nation. But things are just getting worse.

Love Britain, the British climate and the British people, just don't like how Britain is being run, progress to improve is slow......the economy has got worse since we have left the EU, when compared to similar economies in Europe over same time span, recovery after pandemic.....it is clear to see that lower income people might have less money over there but they feel richer than those with less here.....the euro goes further, the health, energy and transport has improved vastly over the last 25 years, clear to see in many paces, and generally the people seem more contented and settled than people here.....they have their problems like everybody but the solution and the support is seen to be more easily obtainable....less uncertainty imo......l want us to do better, we deserve to do better than are doing, why the backwards trajectory?.

[hotblack42]

On 03/08/2023 at 11:03, winkie said:

 ......brexiters I have met on the whole are embarrassed about voting for it......they would prefer not talk about it.

Got had?

I voted for Brexit, on balance.

Not apologetic at all & completely accept the loss of opportunity in exchange for eliminating two low likelihood but extremely high impact threats.

The hat will be passed round when a member state collapses.  Very content with being able to say 'non' if we choose to do so.

Also war (which is a possible consequence of the above).  Much happier to be directed by Nato than Brussels in the event of conflict in Europe.

Much of this thread is people congratulating each other on their marvellous analysis of why Brexit was a terrible mistake, or rounding on anyone who presents any counter argument.  If you disagree, please quote 1 single post by an ardent remainer  acknowledging a valid point made by a Brexiter.  Such on one way street on this thread.

So, how about discussing what happens next (see title), rather than engaging in a futile multi year moan about more people voting to leave than voted to remain?

I'll give you a clue, it's not rejoining,  other than possibly as an associate with cast iron guarantees limiting liability when member states are in distress & heavily restricting FOM.

[winkie]

13 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

I voted for Brexit, on balance.

Not apologetic at all & completely accept the loss of opportunity in exchange for eliminating two low likelihood but extremely high impact threats.

The hat will be passed round when a member state collapses.  Very content with being able to say 'non' if we choose to do so.

Also war (which is a possible consequence of the above).  Much happier to be directed by Nato than Brussels in the event of conflict in Europe.

Much of this thread is people congratulating each other on their marvellous analysis of why Brexit was a terrible mistake, or rounding on anyone who presents any counter argument.  If you disagree, please quote 1 single post by an ardent remainer  acknowledging a valid point made by a Brexiter.  Such on one way street on this thread.

So, how about discussing what happens next (see title), rather than engaging in a futile multi year moan about more people voting to leave than voted to remain?

I'll give you a clue, it's not rejoining,  other than possibly as an associate with cast iron guarantees limiting liability when member states are in distress & heavily restricting FOM.

Rejoining is not going to happen, not in the same state as when we left.....how we have been leaving is not being handled well.....change maybe, but hard Brexit is not what the majority of the people wanted.....Ireland and Scotland certainly didn't want.....still much work to be done, yet another thing that is in limbo.....more uncertainty, business does not like or want uncertainty, people don't like uncertainty and to think they are feeling poorer and there is no positive forward progression......nobody wants to talk about the B word, if it was that advantageous they would be singing out loudly about all the gains and positive fortune it has brought our nation, the next election would be more secure for the party that removed us?

[Bruce Banner]

Everything comes down to Brexit.

Keir secretly delighted at schemes to block Tories stopping the boats | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

 

 

[jonb2]

3 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Much of this thread is people congratulating each other on their marvellous analysis of why Brexit was a terrible mistake, or rounding on anyone who presents any counter argument.  If you disagree, please quote 1 single post by an ardent remainer  acknowledging a valid point made by a Brexiter.  Such on one way street on this thread.

I have not seen one valid point. What are they? So we can acknowledge them. After all, Brexit is your gig, not ours. It's up to you to sell it to us, without the lies or conjecture this time.

Edited August 6, 2023 by jonb2

[hotblack42]

52 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

After all, Brexit is your gig, not ours.

So you've emigrated?

Once again, unproductive hostility.  I'm probably too much on the unemotional side to be fair.

I have substantial investments in European funds for diversification purposes.  If they do pull away those will do well.  If there's a big crises I'll dump them.  It's just business.

I do get that certsin individuals are fed up if they divided their time between UK & Europe, have rellies there etc., but we all have to play the cards we're dealt.  Grieving for how things would have been if we'd voted remain will just make you unhappy with no tangible benefit.

Also the vote was over 7 years ago.  One of my lad's friends is already on his second UK based international startup since 2016. First one made him a fortune at 30. Brexit doesn't seem to have held him back.

[pig]

11 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

On the what happens next topic.

We seem to be moving towards a much diluted Brexit, rather than any attempt to rejoin.  

Ignoring the political rhetoric, there is growing support on both sides for reducing border checks by agreeing to remain in alignment with EU rules and regs, rejoining Horizon and even what you could call FoM light (with some Conservatives floating the idea of ? year work visas for all young people).

No doubt there will be no real progress until after the GE but at least the Tories seemed to have paused further digging of their failed Brexit hole.  

Yes but it looks like its too embarrassing for the Tories to sort out and they are kicking the can into a Labour government.