Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dorkins said: True, but neither did remain voters move over to leave in this vote. People like Alan Johnson have been saying for years now that if another referendum was held leave would win by a bigger margin out of disgust that the first one hadn't been enacted yet and democracy was being ignored. There doesn't seem to be evidence here for that claim. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, MinistryMan said: My dad, brother, sis and bro in law, the guy next door, at least 20 people at an engagement party yesterday, maybe 40 odd people at an Ibiza reunion party Saturday (heavy weekend!) and far more than half the people I spoke to in work for a poll I did (that gave a BP win) haven’t even voted in this euro election but apparently nearly all want some type of Brexit! ? Sums it up in one.....'some kind of Brexit'. Wouldn't the back stepping out of more future entanglement be best done within Europe, Europe is changing as much as we are......took 40 years to get where we are, I am sure unwinding ourselves is an ongoing process, we will have more power to do it within the club than outside...... Less than a third of voters want a hard exit.....that is not a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, hurlerontheditch said: what did you vote for? did every one vote for exactly what you THOUGHT brexit was ? remainers keep coming up with this: I voted to leave...not the type of brexit..i expected the EU and the Govt to put their big boy pants on and come to an agreement but the fools who never understood in any negotiation to remove the possibility to walk away hands huge power to the other side...who will and have used that as an advantage....we should always have anticipated a hard brexit as an option... The referendum was leave or stay ...the type of leave was never a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Si1 said: Sorry but that's so loaded it's absurd. We haven't even tried to leave yet. The UK government invoked A50, negotiated a withdrawal agreement and put it to the Commons three times. If it had passed on any of those 3 occasions the UK would no longer be an EU member state. To me that looks like trying to leave the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Peter Hun said: We have just had a demonstration of democracy and ten million Brexit voters have dissappeared. What sort of democracy do you want where a minority over rules the majority? One where election results are respected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Spindler said: I voted to leave...not the type of brexit..i expected the EU and the Govt to put their big boy pants on and come to an agreement They did come to an agreement but ERG voted it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dorkins said: The UK government invoked A50, negotiated a withdrawal agreement and put it to the Commons three times. If it had passed on any of those 3 occasions the UK would no longer be an EU member state. To me that looks like trying to leave the EU. But it was an unworkable proposal back stopped by a promise we wouldn't crash out. That's passive aggressive Remain tactics if you ask me. Edited May 27, 2019 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurlerontheditch Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Spindler said: remainers keep coming up with this: I voted to leave...not the type of brexit..i expected the EU and the Govt to put their big boy pants on and come to an agreement but the fools who never understood in any negotiation to remove the possibility to walk away hands huge power to the other side...who will and have used that as an advantage....we should always have anticipated a hard brexit as an option... The referendum was leave or stay ...the type of leave was never a question ah yes well Naughty Nigel was championing a Norway option along with his Pimp banks so of course it is part of the leave decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, hurlerontheditch said: ah yes well Naughty Nigel was championing a Norway option along with his Pimp banks so of course it is part of the leave decision. no its not part of the leave decision the decision was already made.......this was just how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Old Alistair Campbell what a bloke.....chucked in a slur about Brexit Party receiving Russian Rubles......offered a chance to apologise refused....Tony Blair's THUG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Si1 said: But it was an unworkable proposal back stopped by a promise we wouldn't crash out. That's passive aggressive Remain tactics if you ask me. The withdrawal agreement is perfectly workable. The UK ceases to be an EU member state and has 3 years or so of trade rule continuity in which to figure out which end state it wants. At the end of that time (or even during it) the UK still has the sovereign right to crash out if it wants. I think ERG voting against the withdrawal agreement will one day be seen as total madness, the best chance in 40 years to take the UK out of the EU and they failed to take it even when handed it on a plate three times. It has created a window of opportunity for their opponents that shouldn't have existed (general election leading to remainer government which calls another referendum while the UK is still in the EU, this new referendum then goes for remain and Brexit cancelled). Edited May 27, 2019 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Si1 said: One where election results are respected? Like the election we have just had where leaving the EU was rejected? Or the previous one where Hard Brexit was rejected? Oh, you mean the non binding referendum before that that gave the 'correct' answer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 48 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: A second referendum would be an absolute betrayal of democracy. A compromise needs to be found. Nah the time for compromising with your sort is over buddy. You’ve blown it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dorkins said: They did come to an agreement but ERG voted it down. then we leave on WTO then....we voted to leave that's it...and as for agreements that are brexit in name only....give me WTO....any agreement where for example the EU can dictate our trade deals...forget it.....trap us in FoM etc...we voted to leave to make our own rules not be tied to theirs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 55 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: A second referendum would be an absolute betrayal of democracy. A compromise needs to be found. We will never agree on that. Democracy did not end in 2016 and it's not as though Brexiteers would not get the chance to vote leave again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spindler said: then we leave on WTO then.... And how was that decided? WTO has not been put to the electorate in a referendum or a party manifesto in a general election. It has no mandate. You might be happy with it but the rest of us would like a say too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 The leave voters won the referendum. The Brexit party got the most votes in the EU elections. The Brexit party would win the next general election. The remainers are relying on multiple parties forming a coalition to defeat Brexit. Lib dems and Greens - lol these people could not run a bath let alone a country Nigel Farage has always been direct with his message and true to the people who voted for leave. just listen him he is best leader we have in the UK All the other parties are just self serving and flip-flopped between leave and remain. They are clueless and un democratic I would be interested if anyone can name another single politician worthy of leading a party and worth voting for as I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Like the election we have just had where leaving the EU was rejected? Or the previous one where Hard Brexit was rejected? No, they're in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Si1 said: I wouldn't say completely meaningless. I think it puts to bed the idea that brexiters 'didn't know what they were voting for' first time around. I think it reinforces that they still don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, FANG said: The Brexit party would win the next general election. The Brexit party has been polling low 20-odd percent in 'how would you vote in a general election' polls, that is not enough to win a general election but it would almost certainly get them some MPs. Edited May 27, 2019 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dorkins said: The withdrawal agreement is perfectly workable. The UK ceases to be an EU member state and has 3 years or so of trade rule continuity in which to figure out which end state it wants. At the end of that time (or even during it) the UK still has the sovereign right to crash out if it wants. I think ERG voting against the withdrawal agreement will one day be seen as total madness, the best chance in 40 years to take the UK out of the EU and they failed to take it even when handed it on a plate three times. It has created a window of opportunity for their opponents that shouldn't have existed (general election leading to remainer government which calls another referendum while the UK is still in the EU, this new referendum then goes for remain and Brexit cancelled). Sorry , I meant it was politically unworkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dorkins said: The withdrawal agreement is perfectly workable. The UK ceases to be an EU member state and has 3 years or so of trade rule continuity in which to figure out which end state it wants. At the end of that time (or even during it) the UK still has the sovereign right to crash out if it wants. I think ERG voting against the withdrawal agreement will one day be seen as total madness, the best chance in 40 years to take the UK out of the EU and they failed to take it even when handed it on a plate three times. It has created a window of opportunity for their opponents that shouldn't have existed (general election leading to remainer government which calls another referendum while the UK is still in the EU, this new referendum then goes for remain and Brexit cancelled). Tend to agree.....some kind of compromise will always be the outcome...... stubbornness, did them no favours, they did not have sufficient support for anything else but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, rollover said: A compromise needs to be found? You are clutching at straws now! Plastic straws? 40 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said: democracy is a one shot trick then? get a grip! Is that the best you’ve got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dorkins said: The Brexit party has been polling low 20-odd percent in 'how would you vote in a general election' polls, that is not enough to win a general election. Well as they have only been going for just over a month I think that they are doing ok. Just wait until they get their policies out there and their popularity will gather momentum. The EU elections were just the start. The other parties are finished Edited May 27, 2019 by FANG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dorkins said: And how was that decided? WTO has not been put to the electorate in a referendum or a party manifesto in a general election. It has no mandate. You might be happy with it but the rest of us would like a say too. That's true. It's what makes this so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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