winkie Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 All assets are worth precisely nothing while they are being held....some may provide an income, some there may be cost to keeping them and others do both.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsm Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 "QE for the people" would really be a last resort. Jeremy Corbyn has hinted at money printing to finance infrastructure (not to give to people) and that's the main reason the Establishment seek to vilify him. Think about it - the monetary system is reliant on debt. "Helicopter drops" in the past (not here) have resulted in people using the free money to pay down debt as opposed to spending it into the economy. Regardless of which party you favour - all parties have to make the monetary system work. Or, should I say, work for the monetary system. "QE for the people" runs directly contrary to that. People pay down debt, destroying banks' assets. People don't need to borrow so much, destroying the banks' opportunities to print money and collect the debit interest on loans. If Corbyn had his way then the banks would be side-stepped. That cannot be permitted. The political solution is to increase debt so far as possible hoping to nudge the GDP in the right direction. As we've seen, QE for the banks barely moved it a blip in the right direction. But, from the government's point of view, it was in the right direction. "QE for the people" would do the opposite. Hence, more debt is the name of the game. Another fall in the BOE base rate, if it comes to it. Increasing the cost of energy and food. Leading to more debt. Parties are only in power for short periods, and then they have to seek re-election. Hence the hypothesis that I have always held which is that the system would need to break completely before any change is effected. this needs a repost. This is the crux of the matter, completely agree. The disastrous monetary system has to be protected at any cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Well if Governments were hoping for a quick stock market rebound it is faltering today. This might be a consequence of those that got their fingers burnt looking for an exit, perhaps this is just a pause for breath as the wounded are off loaded. Indeed a friend said on Tuesday he was off loading 8 unit trusts and going into cash at the first opportunity. May be also shorters are having another go after a really limp effort from the bulls this morning, if they can't make hay on a 10% bounce in Brent then they are a bit useless at moment. Have to hand it to the shorters too, indeed some of these would have been placed sub 6000 and it has been a bit of a shorter slaughter these last couple of days. they've got balls for sure in the face of an oil bounce. Meanwhile Wall street predicted down. still a few hours for traders to switch mind. http://www.ig.com/uk/ig-indices/wall-street edit. my prediction is that the FTSE will rally to 6500 and the DOW to 17250 by September, just enough to dissuade the Fed from raising. Meanwhile the Fed have other matters to think about like China blaming them for the recent meltdown because of rate rise expectations. Akerlof is under the cosh from all sides and will bottle it now. Edited August 28, 2015 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HovelinHove Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Well if Governments were hoping for a quick stock market rebound it is faltering today. This might be a consequence of those that got their fingers burnt looking for an exit, perhaps this is just a pause for breath as the wounded are off loaded. Indeed a friend said on Tuesday he was off loading 8 unit trusts and going into cash at the first opportunity. May be also shorters are having another go after a really limp effort from the bulls this morning, if they can't make hay on a 10% bounce in Brent then they are a bit useless at moment. Have to hand it to the shorters too, indeed some of these would have been placed sub 6000 and it has been a bit of a shorter slaughter these last couple of days. they've got balls for sure in the face of an oil bounce. Meanwhile Wall street predicted down. still a few hours for traders to switch mind. http://www.ig.com/uk/ig-indices/wall-street edit. my prediction is that the FTSE will rally to 6500 and the DOW to 17250 by September, just enough to dissuade the Fed from raising. Meanwhile the Fed have other matters to think about like China blaming them for the recent meltdown because of rate rise expectations. Akerlof is under the cosh from all sides and will bottle it now. Isn't what we have seen the past few days the classic Bull trap? Of course hindsight will only confirm this. I do wonder how long it will last and how high it will go, but if it is a bulltrap it won't regain previous highs and your estimate of FTSE being 6500 is spot on, then all the way down to 4000-4500 range. The question for me is should I sell everything and go completely cash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideAsleep Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Saudi Arabia has invaded Yemen? Didn't hear about this on the BBC news. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-28/oil-surges-after-saudi-troops-invade-yemen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) On Monday, August 24th, the Fed injected $18.54 billion from a “reverse repo fund” filled with cash accumulated at the end of QE3. The $18.54 billion was exponentially greater than what has been previously needed to stabilize stock prices. On Monday & Tuesday, primary dealers failed to move stocks up, because overhead resistance was too strong, and a tactical retreat left the DOW down by a combined 793 points. On Wednesday, the Fed added $4.446 billion, and combined with a mildly positive durable goods report, the primary dealers succeeded in pushing the DOW upward by an astounding 620 points. There was a time, pre-2007, when the Fed could move the DOW up or down by 100-200 points merely by injecting or withdrawing a few hundred million dollars. The idea of injecting a whopping $18.54 billion, in one single day, was something that would have been impossible to imagine. Times change… All of this leaves the Fed in a pickle. Throwing $23 billion at a falling market, didn't stop the decline of stock prices. If they throw in another $23 billion, every three days, stocks will be suspended for longer, or will fall by a only a mediocre amount. But, this cannot go on forever. The current "reverse repo fund" has already been drained down to $68.719 billion. That's only enough for a few more trading days. Once it is drained down to zero, the Fed is out of ammunition. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3472286-the-fed-spent-23-billion-in-3-days-but-still-had-a-hard-time-pushing-up-stocks Edited August 28, 2015 by The Masked Tulip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 That is ridiculous, why doesn't the fed spend a few thousand on eBay to keep the price of some rubbish high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamLancs Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 http://seekingalpha.com/article/3472286-the-fed-spent-23-billion-in-3-days-but-still-had-a-hard-time-pushing-up-stocks Great article, worth a good read. Hard to believe he made all that up so I have to assume he knows what he's talking about. It certainly explains how the Fed can intervene in the markets without announcing QE. Dangerous time to be in stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Fed to delay lift-off over China turmoil. 2% devaluation shocker overwhelms Eccles Twelve. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11831514/Federal-Reserve-will-wait-on-China-turmoil-before-firing-starting-gun-on-rate-hike.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This was the crux of Steve Keen's criticism of the system - that QE is being used to push up asset prices which is essentially a ponzi scheme doomed to failure. At least peoples QE if it goes into infrastructure will actually give us something tangibile. If its done within strict limits on useful projects it doesn't have to be inflationary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This was the crux of Steve Keen's criticism of the system - that QE is being used to push up asset prices which is essentially a ponzi scheme doomed to failure. At least peoples QE if it goes into infrastructure will actually give us something tangibile. If its done within strict limits on useful projects it doesn't have to be inflationary. Citigroup braces for world recession, calls for Corbynomics QE in China. Citigroup's Willem Buiter says only a blitz of helicopter money can stop Chinese economy from collapse. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11831426/Citigroup-braces-for-world-recession-calls-for-Corbynomics-QE-in-China.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Citigroup braces for world recession, calls for Corbynomics QE in China. Citigroup's Willem Buiter says only a blitz of helicopter money can stop Chinese economy from collapse. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11831426/Citigroup-braces-for-world-recession-calls-for-Corbynomics-QE-in-China.html two wrongs do not make a right. more q.e will result in a huge war. do you want to die for the bankers sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Citigroup braces for world recession, calls for Corbynomics QE in China. Citigroup's Willem Buiter says only a blitz of helicopter money can stop Chinese economy from collapse. In reality nothing seems to be working - so much for the debt economists and their ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 That is a bit unusual for an institution to be touting world recession ? Aren't they supposed to say everything's OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Worth a listen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030csrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 ^Good stuff just started listening - there are more crashes now. This is sounding really bearish! And it is available as an MP3 download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 At least peoples QE if it goes into infrastructure will actually give us something tangibile. If its done within strict limits on useful projects it doesn't have to be inflationary. If the projects were useful, someone would already be funding them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fully Detached Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Has Damian McBride become an HPCer? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-28/we-are-all-preppers-now Advice on the looming crash, No. 1: get hard cash in a safe place now; don't assume banks & cashpoints will be open, or bank cards will work. Crash advice No. 2: do you have enough bottled water, tinned goods & other essentials at home to live a month indoors? If not, get shopping. Crash advice No. 3: agree a rally point with your loved ones in case transport and communication gets cut off; somewhere you can all head to. Edited August 29, 2015 by Fully Detached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Worth a listen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030csrr Yes I heard it this morning I was going to post it my self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Worth a listen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030csrr I am afraid I stopped listening less than a minute into the program when the presenter described the Winter of Discontent happening in 1973 when in fact it was 1978-79. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent If the BBC can not get the chronology of recent British history right ( particularly as it takes less than a minute to check the relevant Wiki) why on earth would one believe anything else said in the presentation Edited August 29, 2015 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limpet Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 If the projects were useful, someone would already be funding them. More like if the projects were profitable someone would funding them. Something can be useful without being profitable, or is it better to keep throwing money at a rigged ponzi scheme in the chase for fantasy profits. Personally I`d rather money was spent on improving the road network, railway infrastructure and power generation than in propping up the mythical and corrupt tossers running the financial system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 According to McBride, We were close enough in 2008 and what's coming is on 20 times that scale. 20 times is a massive difference - almost unimaginable. It sounds very like a call for someone who can save the world again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fully Detached Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 20 times is a massive difference - almost unimaginable. It sounds very like a call for someone who can save the world again. Perhaps we need 20 Gordon Browns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 20 times is a massive difference - almost unimaginable. It sounds very like a call for someone who can save the world again. Why not make up a number and double it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 If the projects were useful, someone would already be funding them. Not quite. If they were 'profitable'. At the moment its more 'profitable' to stick the money into asset price manipulation. We all know how that's going to end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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