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Psychological Make Up / Character Traits Of A Buy To Let Landlord

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An interesting topic for discussion?

Greed and stupidity are the two characteristics usually focused upon but there must be so many others.

I draw up my experiences. Brainstorm:

+ lack of empathy for fellow man?

+ superiority complex?

+ insecurity?

+ obsessive compulsive tendencies?

+ issues with authority?

+ greed?

+ poor social skills?

+ low IQ and educational attainment?

+ early life trauma?

+ lazy?

+ fatalistic?

+ ability to lie?

+ drive?

+ ruthlessness?

+ ambition?

+ resourcefulness?

+ manipulive?

The truth is BTL are a mixture of the above.

An interesting topic to explore?

To beat your enemy you must understand him.

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Character? What character!? To add some value though: ignorant feckless middle class moron, maybe? Wouldn't know investment, portfolio or risk management if Warren Buffett hit them over the head with a very fat book on the subjects?

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Of course, BTL landlords with many of those traits exist in significant numbers. However, I rather prefer to think the majority of them are somewhat more hapless. People who are fed stories of BTL riches by newspapers, and encouraged to do it by friends and family.

I honestly don't think many BTL landlords are doing it maliciously, they're a product of the circumstances which allowed the venture to be such a profitable experience. Frustratingly, they're happily oblivious to the harm they're causing.

Of course, those 'favourable' circumstances may well have been engineered by people with all the traits you describe...

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I would suggest:

A simplistic view of the world ("Property only ever goes up")

A desire to show off how "rich" they are. (Note they are always happy to detail how many properties they own etc. Very rarely on HPC (if ever in my short time here) has anyone disclosed how much they earn or how much they have saved.)

A sense of entitlement ("it's my pension" - "how dare the chancellor change the rules")

Lack of real world business knowledge ("I'm an entrepreneur")

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Lots of good ones there, including

+ lack of empathy for fellow man
+ superiority complex

Entitlement and greed and bubble HPI forever beliefs - can only be cured by HPC and the stomach for full HPC, to level things on behalf of future generations.

Too many oldies caught in long-wave HPI paradise... never known real hardship.. 15% rates only affected a few, (2% on bigger mortgage just as much hardship today)... doubling down out of GREED. GREED.

They are both over 60. If they were still maths teachers they would have retired by now. Teachers of their age get really good pensions. If they'd stuck to just a couple of early BTLs they would now not have a care in the world. Isn't that what's important at their age? They would have a very comfortable retirement and, even more importantly, they would feel good about themselves having spent their working lives enlightening and inspiring thousands of young people about maths. They would be respected members of the community.

This is a tragic story of people becoming wrapped up in their own greed and personal hubris. Even if they don't lose their entire fortune, they will certainly have gone through a period of extreme stress and quite frankly even if their financial worries go away, their greed is so obvious they must have nagging self-doubts as they go to sleep each night. That is their true punishment.

frug.

Have a listen to the Radio 4 Moneybox Buy to Let episode from last Saturday:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0631nq3TBH I'm surprised I haven't seen anything on the forum about it

This will give you an idea of who is paying these ridiculous prices. E.g. late middle aged couple paid £490,000 for a one bedroom flat, with stamp duty and furnishings that must be at least £510,000 outlay. They receive £1300 pcm rent, net after service charge etc. That's 3% yield gross! they seem to be happy about probably losing money month to month on the rent because they are in it for the long haul and the massive capital appreciation that will undoubtedly materialise over the next couple of decades. After all, the lady being interviewed bought her own flat in the area for £107,000 which is now worth £650,000!

There will be no price correction until these types of people have been well and truly scared away from BTL

£490,000 1 bed flat. £1,700pm ... after service charge we get around £1,300pm (RENT), which covers the mortgage at the moment. Fixed rate mortgage that goes up in 2 years.

Bought her own flat decades ago.

And I've lived in his area for 25/26 years. When I bought my flat it was £107,000. It went down to £82,000 and the mortgage rate went from 7% to 15%. Now my flat is worth about £650,000 and I feel reasonably confident it's a good investment.

Husband went "Oh" - with a disappointed groan when heard about the Budget, but it's swing and roundabouts and long term investment.

--------------------

There are different types of BTL investors.

My parents-in-law would never have bought a BTL flat (indeed they were massively against it) however they had several hundred k sitting in a bank account earning 1%.

If they'd shopped around they'd be getting 2% at best in a savings account (maybe slightly more)

If they'd bought shares they might have gone up, maybe down and with dividends they'd be making maybe 4%. However in living memory the stock market has lost and recovered 50% of its value.

With the flat they bought they get a yield of about 4% (after costs and contingency), price might go up or down (up about £50k so far) in the long term.

Put it this way if they could get 4-5% in a savings account - like was common up to 2008 - there is no way they'd own a BTL flat. But as they want an income in retirement BTL is a sensible way of getting a BTL income.

Now levereged BTL for flats in Bulgaria is another matter...

... and seeing it is as okay - 'sensible' - not different to other BTLers (massively against it sureee) :rolleyes: when it's your own family on the win. House owned outright, bought cheap ages ago... fortune sat in bank on the double-down... really caring about others. :rolleyes:

HPC.

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I would suggest:

A simplistic view of the world ("Property only ever goes up")

A desire to show off how "rich" they are. (Note they are always happy to detail how many properties they own etc. Very rarely on HPC (if ever in my short time here) has anyone disclosed how much they earn or how much they have saved.)

A sense of entitlement ("it's my pension" - "how dare the chancellor change the rules")

Lack of real world business knowledge ("I'm an entrepreneur")

I think that nails the common denominator characteristics for the majority, although I think individuals tend to display one or more of the other traits mentioned in addition to these.

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Tend to be a failure in the realm of career life and have a lot of time on their hands. BTL saved them, and now they can tell themselves they were geniuses and success stories.

Also see "Primary School Teachers"

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Whatever you decide in, it is selected on survivor bias. So whatever traits either compel someone to either have cashed out or not gone into it in the first place must be excluded.

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Eating babies

Spreading cancer

Raping Nanjing

Seriously what kind of dumbass thread is this?

I'm not sure that they are on the hook for the Nanjing thing. Can you post a link?

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Eating babies

Spreading cancer

Raping Nanjing

Seriously what kind of dumbass thread is this?

You beat me to it all the characteristics described could be applied to many holier than thou hpcers as for the dick waving bit hpc version is I live on lentils, print out pictures of a beach and put them up in the living room telling the kids we are on holiday blah blah blah

The majority of btler's are just people trying to get through the day like you and I the wider consequences probably never thought about

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(deposit) thieves

liars

con artists

chancers

rented for years and every single one of my landlords had all the characteristics above, with no exceptions.

as soon as any human gets power over you, they fk you over. its human nature.

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hpc version is I live on lentils, print out pictures of a beach and put them up in the living room telling the kids we are on holiday blah blah blah

There's some comedy about today on HPC! Lovin' it!

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There's some comedy about today on HPC! Lovin' it!

he forgot about a paddling pool and a couple of bags of sand from wickes to complete the effect

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The majority of btler's are just people trying to get through the day like you and I the wider consequences probably never thought about

True, but the cheerleaders are something else.

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Sheeple probably covers it for most. I know some don't like that term - but I think it is pretty apt.

Most got into btl because they were told to by someone on TV. That's about the jist of it.

Who would sit and think - yes I want to be a part time landlord as an 'investment' ? How many peoples minds did that pop into prior to the early 2000's ? Very very few. It's just not attractive.

(Unless of course you are a duke of westminster type gifted acres of prime land at birth - I am sure that sounds pretty attractive.)

People are getting into btl because they are told to and are too lazy and/or ignorant to do their own research and realise the potential massive downsides.

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