End of Section 21?

[spyguy]

8 minutes ago, Sithuk said:

Am I right that absolutely nothing has changed or is even scheduled to change. Just a vague commitment to “consult”.

 

Worse, there is no protection for sitting tenants from LLs front running any future change by issuing a S21 now.

No.

It sounds like a done deal.

If it was just a process then youd not have had the BBC making it the headline news.

 

[spyguy]

19 minutes ago, Freezer? Best place for it said:

You are wrong again.  The comment they are untrustworthy is correct  - whether fixing the roof, bringing down immigration or the end to austerity etc......

There was no comment on Left or Right.  Only that we are Governed by LL that misspeak a lot.

Nope.

Put aside MPs who have 2 houses due to having a constituency way away from London.

Youll find that Labour and lefties are way more into property as an investment than Cons.

Just look at Michael Meacher and Chris Commie Williamson.

 

 

 

[Voice of Doom]

If the government are serious about this change - and it's not simply a "we-are-doing-something" figleaf - then I'm sure the legislation can be drafted to make the obvious circumventions impossible or very difficult. But that aside, if you had a pot of cash and wanted to invest it, why would you choose a BTL now?

And I suspect, as @spyguy alludes to, the BTL Finance Watch thread will become busier over the coming months. Perhaps there should be a warning before reading for any LLs with heart conditions.

 

[spyguy]

2 minutes ago, Voice of Doom said:

If the government are serious about this change - and it's not simply a "we-are-doing-something" figleaf - then I'm sure the legislation can be drafted to make the obvious circumventions impossible or very difficult. But that aside, if you had a pot of cash and wanted to invest it, why would you choose a BTL now?

And I suspect, as @spyguy alludes to, the BTL Finance Watch thread will become busier over the coming months. Perhaps there should be a warning before reading for any LLs with heart conditions.

 

Leveraged BTL ended 12-24 months ago.

This change is about killing existing IO BTLers.

 

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Nope.

I presume you’re just being thick - there, a cross into the box.

 I made absolutely no observation about Left or Right.  You managed to shoehorn it in, then comment on it.  Or was it misspeak again?

[Sithuk]

Thanks Spyguy: do you have any links detailing what the Gov has changed to stop a LL issuing S21 while the consultation takes place and any changes enacted in law?

[OnionTerror]

Here's a link to the reasons that the reasons that a LL has to give in Scotland, in order to evict...

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/form/2017/11/private-residential-tenancy-prescribed-notices-forms/documents/notice-to-leave/7de8561a-c689-463e-b196-bdbe2dee347b/7de8561a-c689-463e-b196-bdbe2dee347b/govscot%3Adocument

"Refurbish the property" Hmm...

[LesDawson]

Just seen the newsreader on Sky News at 11.15 (a blondish middle aged type, unpleasantly smug in this case) talking to a woman is is currently in the process of being kicked out because of this 21 thing.

 

The tenant explained how the landlord was kicking her and her partner out for no good reason, they had paid their rent, etc, and was clearly upset. She was saying how they needed to try to find another place in London, which was almost impossible for a decent amount, and the high fees they have to pay (only renting as they can't afford to buy).

 

The newsreader took this all in and said that in the past she (the newsreader) had rented, but now was renting out flats, etc. She then proceeded to show NO sympathy to the tenant, and infact was bringing up the landlords side, "what about their rights ?", and also said this current generation of renter's complained about the littlest things such as light bulbs and heating 'they don't know how to change light bulbs, or how to turn the boiler on'....

 

She was SO smug, and had a big smile on her face when the 'interview' ended. 

 

I felt physically reviled. Had never noticed this newsreader before, but what a disgusting creature.

[phead]

Is this about fairness to renters, or is it just part two of the answer to the BoE's "systemic risk" of BTL?

We though removal of mortgage interest relief was the answer to that, but nothing really changed, so its time to double down.

 

Goodbye amateur landlords, hello massive property companies. 

[Bruce Banner]

29 minutes ago, LesDawson said:

Just seen the newsreader on Sky News at 11.15 (a blondish middle aged type, unpleasantly smug in this case) talking to a woman is is currently in the process of being kicked out because of this 21 thing.

 

The tenant explained how the landlord was kicking her and her partner out for no good reason, they had paid their rent, etc, and was clearly upset. She was saying how they needed to try to find another place in London, which was almost impossible for a decent amount, and the high fees they have to pay (only renting as they can't afford to buy).

 

The newsreader took this all in and said that in the past she (the newsreader) had rented, but now was renting out flats, etc. She then proceeded to show NO sympathy to the tenant, and infact was bringing up the landlords side, "what about their rights ?", and also said this current generation of renter's complained about the littlest things such as light bulbs and heating 'they don't know how to change light bulbs, or how to turn the boiler on'....

 

She was SO smug, and had a big smile on her face when the 'interview' ended. 

 

I felt physically reviled. Had never noticed this newsreader before, but what a disgusting creature.

I just wound it back to take a look. 

Pretty much as you said, I couldn't find the presenters name but she was certainly smug and confrontational, lecturing the tenant who accused her of being patronising and said something about the landlord being "pissed off". Presenter took a sharp intake of breath, cut the tenant off and apologised for her (the tenants) language.

A truly vile woman who should be sacked for her disgraceful behaviour, goading ant patronising the tenant who was almost in tears, nasty, nasty woman.

Edit: I think it was Jayne Secker.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Bruce Banner

[LesDawson]

Just caught her name at the top of the hour, Jane Seyker (speaking may not be 100%)

 

Thanks for the backup, it surprised me how bad the newsreader showed herself to be there.

[LesDawson]

Hardly post here, but the auto correct has messed up and I can't seem to correct a post once entered....anyhow it's "Spelling may not be 100%" etc.

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

There's not much time for landlords of any type on here is there?

I can't speak for other posters but speaking for myself, no, I don't have much time for landlords. After over a decade of living in the English private rented sector, forking over many tens of thousands of pounds for usually poorly maintained properties, receiving a S21 after asking for minor repairs, being refused a new fixed period because we wanted more than 2 months' security on the home where we are raising two children under 4, having a landlord let themselves into our home one morning with no notice while I was sat in my dressing gown on a day off, having a landlady walking around our home looking under the sofa cushions and literally running her finger along the tops of the doors during a mid-tenancy inspection, being outcompeted for first time buyer properties by debtjunkie BTLers willing to take on essentially any quantity of debt to expand their portfolio, seeing landlord organisations squeal in protest every time politicians propose giving tenants a bit more power over their own lives etc I have my reasons.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Dorkins

[Bear Goggles]

1 hour ago, hotblack42 said:

Its all very fine to theorise about this or that for the future.  But this curve ball is affecting single property landlords with tenancies already in place.  Both the landlord and tenant agreed to the tenancy in the pre-existing regime, including S21.
It would be fairer on decent landlords (and lenders) for S21 to wither on the vine, by allowing their use against all existing tenancies, but not on new ones, perhaps from around the same time letting fees are abolished.

There's not much time for landlords of any type on here is there?  Even if they are also tenants,  charge a very reasonable rent, look after the property vigilantly, own it outright.  I could go on but what's the point.
I've been posting here for many years.  This is the first time I can recall seeing a more measured response to a development on the Landlord forums.

I hear what you're saying, but I think there's quite a lot of emotion involved here. Tenants have been treated as second class citizens in the eyes of the law. I don't think there's a single person who has rented in the UK that has not at some point or other been unfairly treated by a landlord, only to find out they have zero rights in law to do anything about it, usually resulting in their having to move house and be significantly out of pocket in the process.

Successive governments have had over a decade to sort this out, tenants groups have been calling for reform of tenancy for years. There's been plenty of time for a measured response. All calls for sensible reform have been repeatedly dismissed with ideological platitudes about the need for a "flexible private rental market" etc. Now the anger has finally boiled over and the elastic band has snapped.The Tories are in a race against time to try to bring younger voters on-side before their over-75 voter base dies off (or deserts them for UKIP). Amateur BTLers are now pawns in this game, there's probably gonna be some collateral damage amongst "good" landlords as this process plays out, and there's not going to be much sympathy from tenants.

 

[OnionTerror]

The consultation document...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/795448/Overcoming_the_Barriers_to_Longer_Tenancies_in_the_Private_Rented_Sector_-_government_response.pdf

[spyguy]

57 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I just wound it back to take a look. 

Pretty much as you said, I couldn't find the presenters name but she was certainly smug and confrontational, lecturing the tenant who accused her of being patronising and said something about the landlord being "pissed off". Presenter took a sharp intake of breath, cut the tenant off and apologised for her (the tenants) language.

A truly vile woman who should be sacked for her disgraceful behaviour, goading ant patronising the tenant who was almost in tears, nasty, nasty woman.

Edit: I think it was Jayne Secker.

https://www.marathi.tv/anchor/jayne-secker/

'A confident woman, she has achieved success through her efforts, courage and hard work'

Strange. Now mention of leveraging up like a loon....

Still she did ahieve her media success all of her own back ...

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/kathy-seckers-tv-presenter-daughter-12476911

Kathy Secker would have been “beyond proud” to see her TV-presenting daughter follow in her legendary mum’s footsteps when she presents the Royal Television Society Awards in Newcastle next month.

Kathy died suddenly just before Christmas 2015 at her home in Jesmond, aged 70. The much-loved television and radio presenter was in the public eye for decades after first being known as ‘the face of the North East’ from her spell in modelling.

Thank christ shes not Mike Nevilles daughter ... that would have ruined my childhood memories.

 

[Trump Invective]

More attempts to subdue the market. Long term price "stabilisation". Please vote for us.

[winkie]

1 hour ago, phead said:

Is this about fairness to renters, or is it just part two of the answer to the BoE's "systemic risk" of BTL?

We though removal of mortgage interest relief was the answer to that, but nothing really changed, so its time to double down.

 

Goodbye amateur landlords, hello massive property companies. 

You have a point.....own outright yours to rent out within the law......in regard to giving big property companies special big debt cheap leverage benefits and a licence to make money over and above the amateur landlord is not the way to go......it could make things worse for a tenant.

[reddog]

Never heard of TV legend Kathy Secker, no doubt some minor personality in the North East.

 

Not much to do with this great Section 21 news, but isn't it interesting how a lot of people in the media have an older relative who also had a prominent media job, even if they were for example "only" a BBC producer or whatever.

 

The reality is many of the Jane Seckers of this world would probably be working on the till in Asda if it wasn't for family connections.

Edited April 15, 2019 by reddog

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, Dave Beans said:

The consultation document...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/795448/Overcoming_the_Barriers_to_Longer_Tenancies_in_the_Private_Rented_Sector_-_government_response.pdf

Interesting reading, thanks. Shows the significant disconnect between tenants and landlords, with tenants wanting more security of tenure and landlords not wanting them to have it.

[nome]

''Discussed'' here from 13:08 onward...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00041dp

[Bruce Banner]

Simon McCoy, on BBC News, has just covered the S21 story. Except, unlike Jayne Secker on Sky, he did it properly.

[Spindler]

5 hours ago, Bear Goggles said:

What if you get posted to a job abroad for 2 years? Should you sell your home? Or should your employer be forced to pay for accommodation abroad? Not sure either of these is reasonable. 

and who's going to manage the property.....? Know a guy who has had a nightmare getting things fixed because landlord is in the us and won't even hand out his contact details...managing agent ********** useless....he quit the place because of it.....will a landlord be open about his plans ? some families will be looking at longer than 2 year timelines....this exposes the problems AMATEUR Landlords...and all respect to you but you are also an amateur landlord......this is peoples lives being played around with here......the deliberate pushing up of prices by TPTB....the invention of IO BTL...leveraged goons......now TPTB have lost a whole genration of voters because they have been doing what the oldies would vote for them for....oldies are dying....millenials face a lifetime of debt just to get a basic need....they will not vote for policies that bolster HPI...............what has happened in the UK.it not just criminal.......it's EVIL

 

you did try and sell your home but the market would not pay the price you wanted so you rented it out and then rented something yourself......thats 2 properties with tenants which could be OO

[Spindler]

and to add that is risky..because if you get a non paying tenant.....and have to evict....you're paying rent on the oter side...that could be ironic

[skrillex]

I hope the next steps will be local councils compiling rental indexes which can be used for rent increase arbitration (don't councils already have these indexes for calculating housing benefits?) and coming up with a way to stop landlords abusing the right to sell or move in themselves as a way to evict (2 months rent compensation per year of tenancy would be a juicy solution!).