'Buying' record number of cars

[sisyphal]

15 hours ago, Funn3r said:

For the benefit of us car- challenged people, is the consensus that this car leasing thing is worth it or not? My last few cars I bought high mileage 3 year old from auction but starting to think I could do better. 

There's no right or wrong answer to that.  There are some really good PCP deals out there, but there are a lot of daft people spending a whole lot of money on PCP deals to obtain a car they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford.

Do you research, make a spreadsheet and work out all the different possibilities.  The figures are all there with PCP deals, if you analyse them I suspect you're doing more than a lot of people (most?) who take out these deals.

Personally I find it difficult to know what to do (as with the housing market) cheap finance is changing things, distorting things and increasing prices.  I've always been one for bangers and have managed to get through more than a decade spending very little in depreciation.  However that's something I'm not sure I'll be able to continue doing.  Due to the availability of low interest borrowing and increase in prices in older cars I'm tending towards buying newer these days.

[winkie]

An example of how people think.....Talking to someone today who seem to value a car on the colour it is, colour coming before the important practical reasons why you would choose one car over another....I give up.

No I don't, another said they like a personal numberplate because people can't tell how old their car is...I give in.

[flb]

On 1/5/2017 at 6:16 AM, spyguy said:

Apparently its deue to the new way we are buying cars.

I think they need to look at the word 'buy'

Apparently its all down to PCP. With an affordable monthly repayment .....

85% of cars on finance are on PCP.

'Affordable' monthly payment mentioned again.

And we are 'buying' premium cars - 4x4, Audis, BMW.

Oh FFS.

PCP is borrowing money to rent a car FFS.

If you need a top end car the PCP cotnract you being able to drive it car.

Im living in an country of idiot punters, idiot car dealers and an idiot government.

I don't really understand the problem with PCP (other than the fact that you could buy a car for much less, if you didn't go for "new")

It's pretty much like changing your car every X years (3-5-7, depending on how often you can afford it).

Obviously it's for people who can afford it. I bought a really cheap car (1200 or something), but I was considering this PCP thing a while ago. Seeing how it's really cheap to do, it's like renting a car forever (or for as long as you can afford to), but it's a brand new car all the time and it costs less than renting one. 

[spyguy]

1 minute ago, flb said:

I don't really understand the problem with PCP (other than the fact that you could buy a car for much less, if you didn't go for "new")

It's pretty much like changing your car every X years (3-5-7, depending on how often you can afford it).

Obviously it's for people who can afford it. I bought a really cheap car (1200 or something), but I was considering this PCP thing a while ago. Seeing how it's really cheap to do, it's like renting a car forever (or for as long as you can afford to), but it's a brand new car all the time and it costs less than renting one. 

Its very expensive.

The PCP limits how many miles you can drive.

[flb]

1 minute ago, spyguy said:

Its very expensive.

 

It's actually very cheap for the people it's aimed at. You need to understand it's not for everyone. This is mostly for someone who wants to drive a "new" car all the time. 

How much would that person have to pay to replace his/her car every 3 years? Is PCP cheaper or more expensive when compared to buying a top-of-the-line new car every 3 years?

1 minute ago, spyguy said:

The PCP limits how many miles you can drive.

Most people know how many miles they need to drive each month and the limit is quite generous, in my opinion.

When I was looking at it, it was because my car had some problems and I was considering getting rid of it (fixed them since). I knew I was driving 10 miles to work, 10 miles back, with the occasional trip to the supermarket, airport, pub etc, but most of the mileage would come from getting to work and back. Assuming 5 days a week, would have been 100 miles/week, 5200 miles/year. Let's say 10,000 miles/year. It was within the limit. 

 

[Bonkers2016]

I look at this and can only think that using PCP is dead money... I own my '02' pile of shit car outright, but every time I think about getting a new car I think this car is saving me money as long as the MOT does not exceed £300 per year (quite high but my standard for yearly costs.)

I did a quick comparison to make sure it is in fact "dead money".

price paid for 30k 02 was £3500 - 6 years ago, just for comparison.

OLD

3500 /3 /12 = £97 per month

New (same make)

 

£185.04 per month for 3 years

__________________

Yes you could argue for double the money, I could be driving something new.

Money I have saved over 3 years vs pcp = £3169.44

Plus extra 3 years £6661.44 at pcp rate. (At owning my current one for 6 years)

I could easily now walk into a dealership and buy the PCP car above now with PX with a total of £9830.88 saved and actually walk away with a brand new car owned and start compounding the money saved vs someone who is perpetually doing PCP with the "new" car.

 

 

[billybong]

On 1/5/2017 at 11:02 AM, Money Frugality said:

This.. However.

 

I believe 2013 was the year that new car sales peaked in the U.K. 3/4 are bought on finance. 

This year or next should have been/is the year there would be a flood of used cars on the second hand market but all I've seen is cars AND (key part) motorbikes sat on forecourts, eBay listings, auto trader at inflated prices..

 

Now from what I'm seeing finance is offered on used cars/bikes as well now so the lower income less credit worthy sucker (customer) can indulge too.

 

You can't even low ball with cash offers now as they make more money on the finance! 

 

Also on a side note a colleague had a snapped chain on his BMW, pair of foreign folk came and bought it, said they were exporting it.. Obviously just 1 case but still. 

My highlight.

Similar to what they did to the housing market in London - but they couldn't export houses so they imported buyers.

[winkie]

An ex pcp car purchased for cash can be a good deal, clean car, low mileage, reasonable price...what they will be reluctant to do in the way of lowering the price will include full free service, a service the following year inc a £10 mot  car breakdown and full warranty until car five years old....also option to return before 500 miles or full month if car not to satisfaction.....why buy new?

Plus new mats and flaps.

[winkie]

 

[200p]

PCP will actually make sense with electric cars - how much to replace those lithium batteries?

I don't see many vintage Prius on the roads.

[Greg Bowman]

6 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its very expensive.

The PCP limits how many miles you can drive.

Is it ? £200 or so notes a month for a last of the old style e class with a reasonable engine which £250 gets you chipped for another 50bhp and better fuel consumption 

you set the mileage and even going over isn't penal something like 5-7p a mile 

if you need a reliable car and have to take the odd client out seems a smart choice, 

people spend more on their mobile phone bill

So in my eyes certainly not very expensive. If you like driving having a new reliable car is a great basis for a European touring holiday as a bonus 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Greg Bowman

[Pablosammy]

PCP isn't inherently evil, although evil people often use it to pull the wool over the uninitiated's eyes.

As long as you do the sums, work out the total cost of ownership, and compare it against other available finance options, it's a perfectly valid way of owning a car. It's just a finance product, ultimately, and a relatively simple one at that.

Yes, of course a £3k used Fiesta is cheaper to own than a C Class Merc on PCP, but some people don't mind paying more for a bit of luxury and a warranty. They're not idiots, they're not uninformed, they just made a different choice. The self-righteousness on here can be suffocating at times.

[honkydonkey]

2 hours ago, Shaneyson said:

Steering wheel is on the wrong side for most places.

That's why so many come from Japan. 

[The Knimbies who say No]

11 hours ago, 200p said:

PCP will actually make sense with electric cars - how much to replace those lithium batteries?

I don't see many vintage Prius on the roads.

They've not been around that long, and didn't sell in large numbers to start with. Here's three trims available from the start of the Prius' existence, suggests it is pretty reliable in my view, similar to a corolla which is a decent result.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_prius_t3_vvt-i_auto

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_prius_t4_vvt-i_auto

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_prius_t_spirit_vv-i_auto

[council dweller]

Well, I had a Nissan Serena in Japan for 12 years and then shipped it back to the UK for another 12.

So 24 years in total....pretty cheap motoring. Wouldn't do it again, too much trouble.

 

So I`ll save the planet by riding a motorbike (sv650 bought new last year) for the next 2 to 5 years.

I`ll look at a prius in future....thanks,

[Motor_Blade]

I considered PCP when I had a "proper" job, but because I did a relatively high mileage it didn't make sense. For me cars are like houses, provided they do the job I need them to do - the less I can get away with spending on them the better. 

[nome]

Looking at this subject being discussed on a couple of other forums, Pistonheads, Snet. a number of people have commented that they've handed cars back at the end of their pcp deal and according to the dvla website the cars have not been taxed or mot'd up to a year or more later, suggesting they're being being kept off the UK secondhand market by some means.

Someone else mentions  that they regularly attend car auctions and they frequently see closed auctions which feature almost exclusively 2-3 year old cars, which will unundoubtedly be ex lease and pcp cars..., who the bidders are and where the cars end up he didn't know.  

[btd1981]

I've seen lots of photos of 'new' cars sitting on airfields in storage. Maybe they're not so new after all?

[ChewingGrass]

Woman next door but one changes her nissan micra every six months, being one of the worst drivers I have seen she mostly uses the bus for getting about but likes a shiny new car sitting on the drive. Another woman in her 60s is similar, had a Ford Kuga on lease for 3 years and only used it to go to the shops and take her dog 1 mile down the road for walk/toilet this has just been replaced with a ghastly Ford Ecosport as obviously the Kuga has cost too much.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

20 hours ago, nome said:

Looking at this subject being discussed on a couple of other forums, Pistonheads, Snet. a number of people have commented that they've handed cars back at the end of their pcp deal and according to the dvla website the cars have not been taxed or mot'd up to a year or more later, suggesting they're being being kept off the UK secondhand market by some means.

Someone else mentions  that they regularly attend car auctions and they frequently see closed auctions which feature almost exclusively 2-3 year old cars, which will unundoubtedly be ex lease and pcp cars..., who the bidders are and where the cars end up he didn't know.  

Be nice to find this out . Perhaps some go back to the mnftrs / main dealers ..

 

Nissan Launches Used LEAF PCP Plan In UK (From £175 A Month)

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/10/27/nissan-launches-used-leaf-pcp-plan-uk-175-month/ 

 

[nome]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that 3 year old ex lease/pcp cars are actually being scrapped, or at least stored in their thousands on airfields across the UK, in order to keep the pcp scam going AND keep the market supply of nearly new second hand cars restrestricted 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

2 hours ago, nome said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that 3 year old ex lease/pcp cars are actually being scrapped, or at least stored in their thousands on airfields across the UK, in order to keep the pcp scam going AND keep the market supply of nearly new second hand cars restrestricted 

I wouldn't be surprised about the airfield . Can you tell if they were being scrapped?

 If you knew the reg no. as it can be checked with dvla re: tax /Mot 

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history 

 

http://www.rac.co.uk/buying-a-car/rac-car-data-check

 

I had a quick google , but turned up nothing 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Uh-oh!...

Google's self-driving minivan is here

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/8/14206084/google-waymo-self-driving-chrysler-pacifica-minivan-detroit-2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC9wvMkNjmw

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

For a few years now, I've been looking out for the glut of used cars to fall out of the various finance deals but the glut never seems to appears.

The second hand car market is more expensive than I would expect. Maybe it really is some consequence we can identify as partly related to the increased numbers of UK net immigration or what? Hording, storage, scrapping, exporting, more cheap credit and further financialisation or just more drivers more demand?

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore

[Rave]

The question of what happens to ex-PCP 3 year old cars is an interesting one. While I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next man, and it clearly is true that PCP deals on the premium marques are attractive compared to mainstream ones, E.G. you could get an Audi A3 for a similar monthly payment to a Ford Focus, I equally do buy the explanation that the reason you can rent an A3 for three years relatively cheaply is that it's worth a lot more at 3 years old than the equivalent Focus. Though at the same time, the Focus, being in pretty much every respect as good a car as the A3, must cost a similar amount to make.

I'm not at my most clear of thinking, having a cold and having decided to try the 'booze cure' which only occasionally works, but if we assume that car manufacturers (especially the 'premium brands) make a pretty healthy margin on new cars, perhaps the PCP is an opportunity for them to take, say, £10k in PCP ('initial rental' and £200 a month monthly payment) and then have a car that's still worth say £12k on the secondhand market, a 50% discount on it's original 'list price', without the bother of having to persuade people to pay out £24k cash (which is actually a considerable sum of money) to buy the car outright brand new? There's apparently a ready market of car supermarkets prepared to then palm these cars off to sub-prime types at 10-13% APR over a further 4 years.

Meanwhile, get on to a car broker and it's not unusual to get a 20% discount off a new Ford, Citroen etc., which I guess reflects their true value a bit better. If you've got the cash it's a straight toss up between buying a new Focus for a discounted £18k, which will be worth £8k in 3 years time, or PCP-ing an equivalent A3 for £10-12k over the same time frame.

I'm a proper bangernomics type but I got fed up with driving a crappy 15 year old Mk1 Mondeo in 2012 and decided to get myself a top of the range Mk3 instead, 7 years old, with a few dents and 120k miles on the clock. £1600. It's been great, the one and only mechanical bill in the 20k miles I've put on it has been a new clutch, which was £400 at a specialist. It's also needed £400 worth a new tyres all round, but that was for Goodyear Efficient Grips, which are premium tyres, I can't be doing with crap tyres, even though something pretty decent like Kumhos would probably have been <300. Changed the oil, filters, and plugs myself for minimal cost. However, I can see that bangernomics isn't for everyone, I can cope without it if it lets me down as I live in London and have lots of other transport options. I still think peak value for used cars is 6-8 years old though, and it's really not at all hard to save money by doing basic maintenance yourself if you've got, say, a couple of hours spare on a Saturday.