Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[yelims]

I think that the central problem of this specific, English nationalist Tory government is that, since they've lost their ability to use Brexit as an excuse to commit all sorts of undemocratic abuses and engage in any manner of corrupt practices, they've lost their ability to conceal the fact that they have no ideas on how to govern this country or any sort of long term plan. Hence, this desperate attempt to make Brexit relevant again despite the fact that the UK left the club and the Remain camp has scattered into the winds. 

What's left is the core of Toryism on full display, ie corruption, sleaze and a complete absence of anything resembling intellectual thought. There is no vision of the UK beyond Brexit. There is no plan for how to manage things like climate change, an ageing populace or balance inequity (assuming there's even a will on that front). 

Brexit enabled them to dismiss opponents as remainers who were incapable of accepting democracy. As such, they pulled anything and everything from demonising the judiciary and proroguing Parliament when it didn't suit them for Parliament to sit. Now, that isn't an option and they have nothing else so we're going to be hearing about article 16 until they can find some other variant of the post-referendum era to haul out.

Edited November 10, 2021 by yelims

[dugsbody]

1 hour ago, yelims said:

I think that the central problem of this specific, English nationalist Tory government is that, since they've lost their ability to use Brexit as an excuse to commit all sorts of undemocratic abuses and engage in any manner of corrupt practices, they've lost their ability to conceal the fact that they have no ideas on how to govern this country or any sort of long term plan. Hence, this desperate attempt to make Brexit relevant again despite the fact that the UK left the club and the Remain camp has scattered into the winds. 

What's left is the core of Toryism on full display, ie corruption, sleaze and a complete absence of anything resembling intellectual thought. There is no vision of the UK beyond Brexit. There is no plan for how to manage things like climate change, an ageing populace or balance inequity (assuming there's even a will on that front). 

Brexit enabled them to dismiss opponents as remainers who were incapable of accepting democracy. As such, they pulled anything and everything from demonising the judiciary and proroguing Parliament when it didn't suit them for Parliament to sit. Now, that isn't an option and they have nothing else so we're going to be hearing about article 16 until they can find some other variant of the post-referendum era to haul out.

This is precisely why I wanted Boris or one of the other arch brexiters to take the top job and own their mess. It was always obvious they were liars and so were going to continue being liars outside of the scope of brexit. I wanted no excuses of sitting on the sidelines, washing their hands of it.

They have obviously concocted excuses anyway, that bad brexit is all our fault, the fault of remainers and there was a unicorn brexit deal that went begging because we (remainers) messed it up for them. They obviously can't describe this unicorn brexit deal, but it's real, they promise.

They also have plenty more ammunition to come. Perpetual war with the EU will keep the minority of cultists voting for the Conservative Party for a while yet, ignoring all their rampant lies (and sleaze). But eventually it will catch up with them.

The country is broken, but sometimes the demos votes to break things and I guess without strong leadership, you just have to give it to them.

[yelims]

Cornwall is set to receive just over £1 million from the government – almost a hundred times less than it would have received if the UK stayed in the EU. 
 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/cornwall-brexit-funding-eu-government-300631/

 

#levellingdown

 

Brexit-voting Sunderland also not happy

Earlier this year, Sunderland City Council leader Graeme Miller accused the government of trying to sneak through a watered-down replacement for European Union funding.

The North East received £437 million out of the European Structural Investment Fund (ESIF) pre-Brexit, between 2014 and 2020, but there are suspicions that the replacement UK Shared Prosperity Fund (SPF) is unlikely to live up to those numbers.

Edited November 10, 2021 by yelims

[pig]

7 hours ago, yelims said:

I think that the central problem of this specific, English nationalist Tory government is that, since they've lost their ability to use Brexit as an excuse to commit all sorts of undemocratic abuses and engage in any manner of corrupt practices, they've lost their ability to conceal the fact that they have no ideas on how to govern this country or any sort of long term plan. Hence, this desperate attempt to make Brexit relevant again despite the fact that the UK left the club and the Remain camp has scattered into the winds. 

What's left is the core of Toryism on full display, ie corruption, sleaze and a complete absence of anything resembling intellectual thought. There is no vision of the UK beyond Brexit. There is no plan for how to manage things like climate change, an ageing populace or balance inequity (assuming there's even a will on that front). 

Brexit enabled them to dismiss opponents as remainers who were incapable of accepting democracy. As such, they pulled anything and everything from demonising the judiciary and proroguing Parliament when it didn't suit them for Parliament to sit. Now, that isn't an option and they have nothing else so we're going to be hearing about article 16 until they can find some other variant of the post-referendum era to haul out.

Didn't the UK back down today on Article 16 after annoying the US ?

[Dweller]

1 hour ago, pig said:

Didn't the UK back down today on Article 16 after annoying the US ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-minister-steps-back-from-invoking-article-16-of-northern-ireland-protocol-1.4724868

Lord Frost said that if the current negotiations did not succeed “in the short number of weeks before us” Britain would have no option but to invoke Article 16. He said that would mean using “wholly legitimate safeguard provisions within the treaty” which were designed for situations such as the current one.

“If the EU were to choose to react in a disproportionate way and decide to aggravate the problems in Northern Ireland, rather than reduce them, that is of course a matter for them. At that point, of course, we would be entitled to come to our own judgment about how much value we could attach to their commitment to supporting the peace process and the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland, as against protecting their own interests,” he said

[skinnylattej]

13 hours ago, yelims said:

Cornwall is set to receive just over £1 million from the government – almost a hundred times less than it would have received if the UK stayed in the EU. 
 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/cornwall-brexit-funding-eu-government-300631/

 

#levellingdown

 

Brexit-voting Sunderland also not happy

Earlier this year, Sunderland City Council leader Graeme Miller accused the government of trying to sneak through a watered-down replacement for European Union funding.

The North East received £437 million out of the European Structural Investment Fund (ESIF) pre-Brexit, between 2014 and 2020, but there are suspicions that the replacement UK Shared Prosperity Fund (SPF) is unlikely to live up to those numbers.

Hello Yelims,

You are correct, Cornwall has lost a lot of funding. but I was assured by my MP that any loss of EU funding would be compensated by the UK government, and also Boris said so.

The farmers land owning subsidy junkies have also incurred losses, despite, according the NFU Cornwall's published data, voting 3:1 in favour of Brexit.

The fishermen, and especially shell fishermen have also lost out, but in 2019, I saw all the banners in the port saying 'Get Brexit Done'.  The local spokesman for the fishing industry claims that the disadvantages of Brexit are all down the French wanting to punish the English fishermen.

I used to work with a company that had a small factory in Cornwall.  Problems associated with Brexit, REACH and exporting to the EU after Brexit resulted in the decision to close the factory, and relocate the equipment elsewhere.

Cornwall Council behave as if we are still in the EU.

Cornwall is still massively in favour of Brexit.

I despair.

[yelims]

30 minutes ago, skinnylattej said:

Hello Yelims,

You are correct, Cornwall has lost a lot of funding. but I was assured by my MP that any loss of EU funding would be compensated by the UK government, and also Boris said so.

The farmers land owning subsidy junkies have also incurred losses, despite, according the NFU Cornwall's published data, voting 3:1 in favour of Brexit.

The fishermen, and especially shell fishermen have also lost out, but in 2019, I saw all the banners in the port saying 'Get Brexit Done'.  The local spokesman for the fishing industry claims that the disadvantages of Brexit are all down the French wanting to punish the English fishermen.

I used to work with a company that had a small factory in Cornwall.  Problems associated with Brexit, REACH and exporting to the EU after Brexit resulted in the decision to close the factory, and relocate the equipment elsewhere.

Cornwall Council behave as if we are still in the EU.

Cornwall is still massively in favour of Brexit.

I despair.

Yeh another article https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/government-replaces-cornwalls-eu-100m-6175325

Government 'replaces' Cornwall's EU £100m with just £1 million

Cornwall Council had been allowed to bid for £3m from the Community Renewal Fund but has been given just over £1m and there are fears that the Shared Prosperity Fund will not have enough to replace Cornwall's EU funding

[slawek]

[Freki]

It has gotten quite around here. The Brexit flag waving, chest thumping crowd is getting thinner and thinner. I hope The tories stay in power for an extra mandate, the case of rejoining will be more legit.

[yelims]

23 hours ago, slawek said:

Well https://www.stockwatch.com.cy/en/article/elliniki-oikonomia/eu-commission-sees-strong-growth-71-greece-2021

 

even Greece is doing much better 

[msi]

Perhaps all the Brexit Loons are taking up the jobs 'stolen' from them and are too busy to post here?

[yelims]

2 hours ago, msi said:

Perhaps all the Brexit Loons are taking up the jobs 'stolen' from them and are too busy to post here?

They better be working 😀 those houses didn’t get any cheaper as promised by Brexiteers 😂

[slawek]

On BJ's understanding what leaving the EU meant 🤣

 

[Staffsknot]

Broken claim no 125123 - we won't be involved in any European problems... British forces in Poland over Russian build-up and problems on border with Belarus.

[pig]

4 hours ago, slawek said:

On BJ's understanding what leaving the EU meant 🤣

 

Just Wow....

[rollover]

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Broken claim no 125123 - we won't be involved in any European problems... British forces in Poland over Russian build-up and problems on border with Belarus.

Send Putin strong message and negotiating cheaper gas prices.

[thecrashingisles]

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Broken claim no 125123 - we won't be involved in any European problems... British forces in Poland over Russian build-up and problems on border with Belarus.

Wasn't the claim that it was NATO rather than the EU that matters for maintaining peace? I would have thought that vindicates the claim...

[slawek]

The latest poll

53%/47% for rejoining the EU

40%/34% to have a referendum within the next 5 years

[slawek]

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Broken claim no 125123 - we won't be involved in any European problems... British forces in Poland over Russian build-up and problems on border with Belarus.

TBF it is only 10 British soldiers.

[dugsbody]

4 hours ago, slawek said:

On BJ's understanding what leaving the EU meant 🤣

 

That's all very well but I don't trust Cummings. He is a man with a vendetta and most of all, he's trying to evade responsibility for the mess he has created by doing the usual brexiter thing -> "It would have worked just great if only <some other people> hadn't ruined it".

In this case he is blaming Boris but he'll just as well blame anyone, as long as it isn't his fault. But it is Dominic. You brought us the mess through your own dishonesty, your normalisation of dishonesty and and empowering of dishonest people. Own it.

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, slawek said:

TBF it is only 10 British soldiers.

10 engineers to help advise on securing the border. That was how many of our small commitments have started. Then there's a logistics support turns up and somebody says or does something stupid and more folks get sent.

10 soldiers is probably advanced party to determine what assistance is suitable. Its not like Poland doesn't have engineers capable of planning a secure fence.

It is also for show that NATO allies are united behind Poland.

Never forget we deployed an army to Sudan because Gordon was in Khartoum. We sent a elements of the parachute regt into Sierra Leone after a peacekeeping patrol got taken hostage. Escalation bites you on the backside quick

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said:

Wasn't the claim that it was NATO rather than the EU that matters for maintaining peace? I would have thought that vindicates the claim...

No the claim was we wouldn't get drawn into European conflicts - it was also we'd be forced into an EU army if we stayed.

Loads of uninformed Leavers on here also tried to claim the EU nations militaries were all useless as they'd become experts by watching 633 Sqdrn & Where Eagles Dare every Christmas.

It was Remainers who pointed out NATO might just keep them on the hook anyway - which is when a few refused to be drawn on NATO as Trumpster was making noises about pulling out of it.

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

Send Putin strong message and negotiating cheaper gas prices.

Seeing if they want to sign a trade deal in exchange for us letting them annex part of Poland. Some Daily Mail readers are nostalgic for that era...

[slawek]

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

That's all very well but I don't trust Cummings. He is a man with a vendetta and most of all, he's trying to evade responsibility for the mess he has created by doing the usual brexiter thing -> "It would have worked just great if only <some other people> hadn't ruined it".

In this case he is blaming Boris but he'll just as well blame anyone, as long as it isn't his fault. But it is Dominic. You brought us the mess through your own dishonesty, your normalisation of dishonesty and and empowering of dishonest people. Own it.

Regardless of the fact that DC is not a very reliable source you must admit that it is a plausible and funny anecdote. 

[slawek]

47 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

10 engineers to help advise on securing the border. That was how many of our small commitments have started. Then there's a logistics support turns up and somebody says or does something stupid and more folks get sent.

10 soldiers is probably advanced party to determine what assistance is suitable. Its not like Poland doesn't have engineers capable of planning a secure fence.

It is also for show that NATO allies are united behind Poland.

Never forget we deployed an army to Sudan because Gordon was in Khartoum. We sent a elements of the parachute regt into Sierra Leone after a peacekeeping patrol got taken hostage. Escalation bites you on the backside quick

ATM it is a symbolic presence, which might turn into something bigger later if the situation escalates. 

Personally I don't believe in a fence solution. It will never work, risk an escalation and make the humanitarian crisis much worse. I prefer to let them in and keep them or send home if they don't need meet criteria. This way we can disarm Lukashenko and protect vulnerable people.