Is this the end of the Conservative Party?

[winkie]

9 hours ago, Timm said:

My second attempt:

This time ignoring the politics and just saying: Has my life got better since May 2010?

--------------

Yes.

I got married in the summer of that year to a wonderful woman that I don't deserve.

Then we bought a proper house* using joint income and my STR* fund.

I never wanted kids, but we had a son who I adore.

Then we bought a much bigger house.

 

*When I sold to rent in 2007, I didn't sell a house. I sold a narrowboat on a residential mooring.

My life is also better, for reasons nothing to do with this Tory government, not unlike yourself.......however the trains and bus services are worse, HS2 failure, water pollution worse, state schools worse, NHS worse, waiting lists for operations and a&e, austerity affecting justice system and delays, growing mental health issues in children, war on motorists worse, food and insurance, energy inflation worse,........brexit a disaster for all sorts of people, young people being sidelined, no levelling up, housing targets cancelled, leasehold reform cancelled.......homes too expensive for todays first time buyers,........the wrong solution for asylum seekers, so much money wasted on doing absolutely nothing, infrastructure lack of investment........a government with nothing to show for 14 years in power with a majority in parliament.....wasted money, wasted years of no/backward progress.

[winkie]

2 hours ago, onlooker said:

Someone has commented on this as being “a good time to be alive”. I was alive through this. The big difference with today is that the population was stable, so the large scale house building had an impact on improving the quality of life. But many of the problems we see today started then. I went to Milton Keynes in its early construction phases - very large scale shoddy building on a plan designed for the motor car, not public transport.
 

Wilson closed more miles of railway than any other government. The education system was in chaos because he shut most of the grammar schools. He closed more coal mines than Thatcher, but attempts to build new industries by government dictat were largely failures, and industrial relations became terrible, with a disenchanted workforce.

People today would not recognise the Britain of then. The past really is another country.

Like many things our Britain even today is very different, depends where you lived, brought up, industries left around you, family situations.....always been grammar schools near me, did away with 11+ but the state schools got that much better we had potential grammar school kids in state schools, we did well......could leave school at 16 and walk into any job where got training at work whilst being paid, or go to a technical college or uni which was free, even got a grant to go, small business had it easier then coming from a self-employed family, very different today.....lots of youth clubs, swimming baths, lidos.....the UK is so unlevel still is........today the biggest victims are children and young people imo......our future that remember.

[Sackboii]

13 minutes ago, winkie said:

My life is also better, for reasons nothing to do with this Tory government, not unlike yourself.......however the trains and bus services are worse, HS2 failure, water pollution worse, state schools worse, NHS worse, waiting lists for operations and a&e, austerity affecting justice system and delays, growing mental health issues in children, war on motorists worse, food and insurance, energy inflation worse,........brexit a disaster for all sorts of people, young people being sidelined, no levelling up, housing targets cancelled, leasehold reform cancelled.......homes too expensive for todays first time buyers,........the wrong solution for asylum seekers, so much money wasted on doing absolutely nothing, infrastructure lack of investment........a government with nothing to show for 14 years in power with a majority in parliament.....wasted money, wasted years of no/backward progress.

Anything you’ve missed ?

But your post pretty much sums up most peoples views generally I suspect. If anyones life feels better, it’s probably because they’re not affected by any of the above, which can’t be many.

[Blobsy]

2 minutes ago, Sackboii said:

Anything you’ve missed ?

An explosion in homelessness. 

[mynamehere]

UK Is a deeply conservative country Occasionally the tories push it so far that even tory voters conceded it's time for labour to have a quick go, but ultimately the country is blue to the bones.

[Sackboii]

1 minute ago, mynamehere said:

UK Is a deeply conservative country Occasionally the tories push it so far that even tory voters conceded it's time for labour to have a quick go, but ultimately the country is blue to the bones.

Well there’s the thing. I’m not sure they do. Some, yes, others not so. I won’t be voting Labour.

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, Sackboii said:

Anything you’ve missed ?

But your post pretty much sums up most peoples views generally I suspect. If anyones life feels better, it’s probably because they’re not affected by any of the above, which can’t be many.

The problem seeing what is happening around you, seeing others being hit with new problems that didn't used to be there makes everyone less secure about their and the country's future......don't have to personally suffer for others to suffer, affects us all both directly and indirectly......nobody like incompetence and bad untrusting selfish behaviour in those that should know better. 

[MerchantNavy]

10 hours ago, Chunketh said:

Speaking at a press event in Teesside International Airport, Mr Sunak said the results showed at the general election election voters "are going to stick with us".

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Final nail in the coffin for this rancid government. Good riddance.

If that is true, he is seriously delusional.

[MerchantNavy]

38 minutes ago, winkie said:

My life is also better, for reasons nothing to do with this Tory government, not unlike yourself.......however the trains and bus services are worse, HS2 failure, water pollution worse, state schools worse, NHS worse, waiting lists for operations and a&e, austerity affecting justice system and delays, growing mental health issues in children, war on motorists worse, food and insurance, energy inflation worse,........brexit a disaster for all sorts of people, young people being sidelined, no levelling up, housing targets cancelled, leasehold reform cancelled.......homes too expensive for todays first time buyers,........the wrong solution for asylum seekers, so much money wasted on doing absolutely nothing, infrastructure lack of investment........a government with nothing to show for 14 years in power with a majority in parliament.....wasted money, wasted years of no/backward progress.

Another big impact is compensation culture. They haven't been able to control greed culture amongst the general population and lawyers.

[mynamehere]

20 minutes ago, Sackboii said:

Well there’s the thing. I’m not sure they do. Some, yes, others not so. I won’t be voting Labour.

Your own vote aside, where is the doubt? Every signal seems to be pointing to a handover

[Sackboii]

1 minute ago, mynamehere said:

Your own vote aside, where is the doubt? Every signal seems to be pointing to a handover

I’m not doubting the outcome, but it’s clear not all who are not voting Conservative are voting Labour, and nor should they.

Seems I am not alone in not bothering, but I will in a general election.

[MerchantNavy]

2 minutes ago, Sackboii said:

I’m not doubting the outcome, but it’s clear not all who are not voting Conservative are voting Labour, and nor should they.

Seems I am not alone in not bothering, but I will in a general election.

I voted for an independent. Sick of the two corrupt party system which gets nothing positive done. 

[Bob8]

48 minutes ago, winkie said:

My life is also better, for reasons nothing to do with this Tory government, not unlike yourself.......however the trains and bus services are worse, HS2 failure, water pollution worse, state schools worse, NHS worse, waiting lists for operations and a&e, austerity affecting justice system and delays, growing mental health issues in children, war on motorists worse, food and insurance, energy inflation worse,........brexit a disaster for all sorts of people, young people being sidelined, no levelling up, housing targets cancelled, leasehold reform cancelled.......homes too expensive for todays first time buyers,........the wrong solution for asylum seekers, so much money wasted on doing absolutely nothing, infrastructure lack of investment........a government with nothing to show for 14 years in power with a majority in parliament.....wasted money, wasted years of no/backward progress.

Individually, most people are better off than 14 years ago. They are also 14 years older and, if working, are 14 years further along in their career. The question, of course, is is a 30 year in 2024 better off than a 30 year old then. Not really.

And someone relying on working for a living? That 30 year old is certainlty worse off.

[winkie]

37 minutes ago, MerchantNavy said:

Another big impact is compensation culture. They haven't been able to control greed culture amongst the general population and lawyers.

Yes, instead of having watertight regulation and penalties, what we have is 'anything goes when the whistle blows' ......blame and claim culture, scammers scam people, people on their own, or no win no fee, big fees at that....... consumer rights watered down often ignored.........always money to be made from the disadvantaged, those treated badly by others or require help with bureaucracy and rights........even charity is reliant on help from public purse or donations and volunteers to help.......going backwards perhaps to when there was no welfare state, on your own if not got a family or church to help?

[zugzwang]

59 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

UK Is a deeply conservative country Occasionally the tories push it so far that even tory voters conceded it's time for labour to have a quick go, but ultimately the country is blue to the bones.

It explains so much. The lack of talent and ambition. The impossibity of change. The death of hope.

[Timm]

32 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

It explains so much. The lack of talent and ambition. The impossibity of change. The death of hope.

There are people I know that would vote for this.

The flip side of course is that they would be voting for stability, for certainty, for constancy.

Voting to Conserve.

 

Edited May 4 by Timm

[scottbeard]

1 hour ago, MerchantNavy said:

I voted for an independent. Sick of the two corrupt party system which gets nothing positive done. 

Independents and local resident parties are doing increasingly better and better in council elections so I think a lot of people agree with you 

you don’t want local councillors elected on national issues 

[winkie]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Individually, most people are better off than 14 years ago. They are also 14 years older and, if working, are 14 years further along in their career. The question, of course, is is a 30 year in 2024 better off than a 30 year old then. Not really.

And someone relying on working for a living? That 30 year old is certainlty worse off.

Yes, young people today are worse off, once young people could make their way in the world themselves making best use of what was once an excellent state system, social services, health system and plenty of NHS dentists with free six monthly check ups......lots of opportunity of learning, evening classes, working, training given, investment in people, saving own deposit, buying a home in twenties in London from own savings, moving up the ladder twice still in twenties, plenty of council homes available for key workers........today kids are more reliant on who they are born to and how much those they are born to are worth that can pay for superior private education, help with home deposits and money from inheritances.....many jobs nowadays with few prospects to grow, you would not call them a career, just a job where just about managing to cover rent, bills and food....many jobs we once did no longer exist.....more crime abundant, drug dealing, shop lifting, stealing.......damaging to all of society, when got nothing, got nothing to lose.

[Social Justice League]

No way I'm voting for Sunak and no way I'm voting for Starmer.

Starmer is being controlled by Israel and is a Tory, so he's right out the window for me and many others.

[Dreamcasting]

16 minutes ago, Social Justice League said:

No way I'm voting for Sunak and no way I'm voting for Starmer.

Starmer is being controlled by Israel and is a Tory, so he's right out the window for me and many others.

Many grown up individuals on this forum think Labour is their saviour. This is despite decade upon decade of failure by both parties, yet they'll still queue up at the door on polling night begging to be fcked some more.

[scottbeard]

7 minutes ago, Dreamcasting said:

Many grown up individuals on this forum think Labour is their saviour. This is despite decade upon decade of failure by both parties, yet they'll still queue up at the door on polling night begging to be fcked some more.

Personally at this point I hate - and I mean hate - the selfish Tories.  And this is having voted for them as recently as 2017.  I think I would vote for absolutely anyone, no matter how vile or stupid, who would see them defeated.  At this point I don't care who wins, only who loses.

[Bruce Banner]

2 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Personally at this point I hate - and I mean hate - the selfish Tories.  And this is having voted for them as recently as 2017.  I think I would vote for absolutely anyone, no matter how vile or stupid, who would see them defeated.  At this point I don't care who wins, only who loses.

Me too hence will be voting tactically against the "Tories". 

[Devon house]

For me I won't be voting Tory for the first time in my life as they have made an absolute hash of things.

That said, whilst I don't really want to vote for labour I'd prefer for us to have a functioning government so I will vote for them in the hopes we don't end up with a hung parliament that can't achieve anything.

[Unmoderated]

On 03/05/2024 at 12:57, msi said:

It's time small c conservatives started to have an honest chat about what large c Conservative Party should be, and accept is has been taken over by an extremest fundamentalist ideologue Tory clique.

Then decide can they fight back and reclaim it or do they break away and forge a new center-right Polity.

 

It has been done before, Foot - Kinnock - Smith - and to grudging acceptance, Blair did this for Labour only to be undone by Brown and Corbyn's Momentum.

 

Failure to do so takes you down the path of the Whigs and Liberals...

Agreed. Party needs kicking into touch. They'll be out for at least electoral cycle. Hopefully they can reinvent themselves to get back to their roots. 

Working hard, getting on, doing the right thing, taking responsibility gets you rewarded.

Full review of fiscal policy and even to the point of what government should and should not do.

My hope isn't that Labour are the holy grail and fix everything (they wont because they can't) but that this results in a much stronger (Tory) opposition over the coming years and that forces good change. 

Reform is a fricking batsh!t vote taker though. My fear is the Tories go centre-right to win those votes back instead of sticking to the middle ground where most of the votes are to be found (albeit turning red or yellow at the moment). 

[winkie]

49 minutes ago, Social Justice League said:

No way I'm voting for Sunak and no way I'm voting for Starmer.

Starmer is being controlled by Israel and is a Tory, so he's right out the window for me and many others.

We will have a hung parliament more representative of the people, checks and balances, when don't have PR, tactical vote.co.uk....next best thing to first past the post, when only 40% or less of the population wanted them, or voted them in.......no longer people voting like parents voted many more are thinking first depending on situations, circumstances and past performance......no id cards......get id in order.