Reform Is the 2024 Dark Horse

[Eva24]

44 minutes ago, staintunerider said:

You've got that wrong...most do not like economic migrants barging their way illegally into this country and then being put up a taxpayer expense....

As for genuine aslyum seekers...don;t disagree ..trouble is the absolute vast majority are economic migrants....not genuine asylum seekers...

I was in Germany when Merkel threw the doors open....there were Syrians who were genuine becoming enraged and telling the authorities that virtually all those claiming to be Syrian were not Syrian...

 

Yes re boats, personally I think there are bigger issues but seems people are bothered, although no one I know personally is.

Immigration not such a hot topic but again rather goes back to government failure once more as to why people care about boats and uncontrolled immigration.  

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-does-the-public-think-about-immigration/

Any new party needs sensible policies and astute people to run it.  Definitely there is an opening in the Uk for a genuine party that offers solutions to uk problems, without constant perpetuation of the status quo and feathering the nests of the elite.  Not sure if the reform party have any substance or decent policies behind it.

Surely the bigger issues are people feeling they are getting something back for their taxes ie a good education system and NHS, addressing the uks housing issues has got to be front and centre (making it affordable whether you buy or rent) and restoring people’s faith in a government that is actually in place for the good of the people and to represent their interests, not for their corporate owners or mates.

[nightowl]

5 hours ago, Si1 said:

No because most people aren't nazis

It has nothing to do with Nazi or right wing even. The coveted redwall seats are Nazis? Nah.

Ukip was Nigel Farage essentially, but it's possible people might go for a faceless Reform as a protest vote kind of thing and cause damage to potentially both main parties.  It might depend if they get any media coverage as msm will only source news from the main 2/3 parties so reform won't exist in many people's minds.

[Si1]

1 hour ago, bodgittandscarper said:

Forced medical experiments were a key pillar of Nazi Germany research.

That's not remotely morally or functionally equivalent to the COVID vaccination campaigns. Just wow dude.

[Si1]

23 minutes ago, nightowl said:

It has nothing to do with Nazi or right wing even. The coveted redwall seats are Nazis? Nah.

 

Yes. That's what I actually said. Moat people, and that includes most Brexit voters, aren't nazis. 

 

Most Brexit voters are not into Farage or UKIP. Brexit was not exclusively a vote just on immigration, neither was it a judgement on poor people from Africa etc coming here in boats. It held a variety if issues.

Edited January 13 by Si1

[Si1]

1 hour ago, fellow said:

You mentioned Nazis. Whatever.

And you automatically conflated my point with with race just because. Race was only a part of Naziism. Power, authoritarianism, radical activism were equally hallmarks with its racism. You played the race card dude. 

[AThirdWay]

3 hours ago, LetsBuild said:

I used to think that, then covid came and the amount of people who thought you should be stripped of your freedom and livelihood unless you had the jab was truly frightening.

Yeah, because the flu pandemic never happened to warn us what happens if we didn't....

[Si1]

10 minutes ago, AThirdWay said:

Yeah, because the flu pandemic never happened to warn us what happens if we didn't....

Precisely. Whilst not ideal, the vaccination campaigns and associated limits on people without vaccinations, were (1) subject to constitutional and govt oversight and (2) motivated by actual peer reviewed science, which is far from nazi Germany's so called science. Not morally equivalent except on bad YouTube videos.

[fellow]

19 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Yes. That's what I actually said. Moat people, and that includes most Brexit voters, aren't nazis. 

 

12 minutes ago, Si1 said:

And you automatically conflated my point with with race just because. Race was only a part of Naziism. Power, authoritarianism, radical activism were equally hallmarks with its racism. You played the race card dude. 

OK I agree with you then that most people aren't nazis. Most people aren't Eskimos either but Im not sure what relevance this has to the OP?

[Si1]

9 minutes ago, fellow said:

 

OK I agree with you then that most people aren't nazis. Most people aren't Eskimos either but Im not sure what relevance this has to the OP?

Ok fair enough. I just don't think Reform UK and this radical right Cruella Braverman politics actually has much wider traction at all. Hey I may be wrong.

[andrewwk]

12 hours ago, Social Justice League said:

Reform is looking like THE 2024 vote for millions of destitute people.

Starmer's NuLabour Blair circle jerk is a tragic b4stardisation of what Labour actually is.  Starmer is a non starter, as is Sunak.

Edit - Farage is the better politician, even if he is the original Brexit idiot.

 

lol wut, another protest party for low IQs, meaningless soundbite "policies" and a fatcat landlord leader. 

 

 

[regprentice]

19 minutes ago, andrewwk said:

lol wut, another protest party for low IQs, meaningless soundbite "policies" and a fatcat landlord leader. 

 

 

Having read this document i cant square the various policies  

for example the want to both increase the 40% tax rate to £70k and reduce all nhs waiting lists to zero. 

In fact, they want to give you a "voucher" entitling you to private care at no cost to you if you wait more than 3 days to see a GP, 3 weeks to see a consultant or 9 weeks for an operation. That sounds phenomenally expensive  

[regprentice]

10 hours ago, Stewy said:

There is no destitution in the UK. 

The Joseph rowntree Foundation claim 3.8mn british people are destitute  link   against the following definition. 

That starts out as (a)... (b) is on another page but is just "they had these things, but only because someone else paid for them (a relative or charity for example)"

There are other words than destitute for really bad poverty of the kind we see in other countries. IIRC "abject poverty" is when a days work doesn't buy enough calories to do a days work. not uncommon in parts of Africa, India, China. 

Edited January 13 by regprentice

[andrewwk]

17 minutes ago, regprentice said:

Having read this document i cant square the various policies  

for example the want to both increase the 40% tax rate to £70k and reduce all nhs waiting lists to zero. 

In fact, they want to give you a "voucher" entitling you to private care at no cost to you if you wait more than 3 days to see a GP, 3 weeks to see a consultant or 9 weeks for an operation. That sounds phenomenally expensive  

unfortunately reflective of the UK populace's irrational desire to combine European-level public services with American-style low taxation, an approach that unsurprisingly ends in abject failure. 

[steve99]

9 hours ago, Orb said:

Imagine if they offered a referendum on mass immigration as an election pledge. They'd probably do some serious damage to the main two parties if they did. 

They will definitely take a few of the thicker and more racist Tory votes. A bit like brexit again, offering the real sunlit uplands and unicorns and this time real unicorns rather than donkeys with dildos on their heads (becausetheyknowtheywillneverhavetodeliver) .  Less chance of them getting the Wetherspoon warriors off their arses to vote this time as their promise of executive jobs for all is looking a bit empty right now.

[Ballyk]

2 hours ago, andrewwk said:

lol wut, another protest party for low IQs, meaningless soundbite "policies" and a fatcat landlord leader. 

 

 

Yes, it does seem to appeal to those you might kindly describe as the 'simple minded'.

I suspect the more the Tory vote is split, the more crushing the Starmer victory will be.  Which I'm not sure is what Reform voters actually want!  Or think they want.

Edited January 13 by Ballyk
Expand point

[Insane]

3 hours ago, andrewwk said:

lol wut, another protest party for low IQs, meaningless soundbite "policies" and a fatcat landlord leader.

Or for people who understand that you cannot keep allowing in 1.1 more people each and every year without there being problems.

Even pro immigration people when asked have admitted that the figures are too high but never answer when asked how many they think should come in , if anything is low IQ it has to be that. 

[Insane]

1 hour ago, Ballyk said:

I suspect the more the Tory vote is split, the more crushing the Starmer viRctory will be.  Which I'm not sure is what Reform voters actually want!  Or think they want.

Reform could also split the Labour vote I know many ex Labour voters who voted Tory I am one myself who would vote Reform over Labour. 

[Johnno1167]

Reform . Straight out the Trump playbook .

list all the things that are wrong , and just highlight some obvious fixes and  say gonna fix the problems of the world .,, 

yep, shorter waiting time ! 
yep, less immigration.

yep, reform lots of things . 
 

just , one issue , no economic plan . 

and digging for more coal / gas / oil…. Bonkers .. 

the one thing I do agree with them is reform of the upper house . 

[zugzwang]

26 minutes ago, Insane said:

Reform could also split the Labour vote I know many ex Labour voters who voted Tory I am one myself who would vote Reform over Labour. 

Seriously, yes! Immigration is going to be the key issue and the Starmerites are nowhere to be seen.

When does this shit get real for them?

[Insane]

5 minutes ago, Johnno1167 said:

the one thing I do agree with them is reform of the upper house . 

Do you not agree on them wanting to cut the waste in the NHS?

I went to a meeting held by Reform local to me. Cannot remember the figures exactly but they did mention how many people working in the NHS were non clinical roles compared to clinical roles and gave out the numbers for this when the NHS first started out in 1948. Surely that is something worth looking at instead of just writing them off as out of the Trump playbook.    

[Insane]

21 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Seriously, yes! Immigration is going to be the key issue and the Starmerites are nowhere to be seen.

When does this shit get real for them?

I speak with so many people who have all been either Tory or Labour voters all their lives. They all say the same thing which is

" I cannot vote either Tory or Labour" 

Labour thinking they have a Landslide in the bag is a bit presumptuous. 

[supermarioj]

Lets look at the Wellingborough by-election coming up in February, I believe. Ben Habib is standing for Reform and features regularly on GB News. He is a very good speaker and i would expect him to win this seat and, if he does, it will upset the political status quo.

[Johnno1167]

1 hour ago, Insane said:

Do you not agree on them wanting to cut the waste in the NHS?

I went to a meeting held by Reform local to me. Cannot remember the figures exactly but they did mention how many people working in the NHS were non clinical roles compared to clinical roles and gave out the numbers for this when the NHS first started out in 1948. Surely that is something worth looking at instead of just writing them off as out of the Trump playbook.    

Sure I would . The ambition is fine , though the solution is not to magically say we will eliminate it .. like missing .. details . How .. 
i.e What specifically have they identified and what are the specific solutions available (often more than one). Every time I hear them talk about what they will do , just no details .  This is exactly how trump runs his electioneering . Lots of promises, popularism , but no real meat. 
 

And digging for more coal ., sorry, we have to move forward .. 

[Johnno1167]

1 hour ago, Insane said:

Do you not agree on them wanting to cut the waste in the NHS?

I went to a meeting held by Reform local to me. Cannot remember the figures exactly but they did mention how many people working in the NHS were non clinical roles compared to clinical roles and gave out the numbers for this when the NHS first started out in 1948. Surely that is something worth looking at instead of just writing them off as out of the Trump playbook.    

Oh.. and The Brexit party as they label themselves. So, how exactly is brexit working out for the UK ? 

immigration up. GDP down . Foreign  Investment down . Growth slowed on average vs all neighbours on the same continent .  
The land of unicorns , milk and honey, not quite yet in sight . Still trying to find a single benefit . Even the government a wonder he ministerial post for brexit opportunities ! 
But hey ho, can still claim blue passports ! 
 

the #1 ask I have at the next election is that we have a few grown ups in control .

 

[nightowl]

1 hour ago, supermarioj said:

Lets look at the Wellingborough by-election coming up in February, I believe. Ben Habib is standing for Reform and features regularly on GB News. He is a very good speaker and i would expect him to win this seat and, if he does, it will upset the political status quo.

Will be interesting to see if Reform can make any inroads into winning the seat previously held by Sven Goran Erikson 😉