Chunketh Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 7 hours ago, Insane said: OMG lol. Ultra right do you know what left , right and centre is? 7 hours ago, Chunketh said: Why the LOL? Where would you put them on the scale? Immigration dog whistling - check ACC denial - check Their website reads like a parody of a spoons "Tim says" pamphlet. Utter populist drivel designed to pander the the Daily Wail brigade. Quite how they plan to fix the NHS in 2 years, massively cut taxation, increase armed forces and police spending is pie in the sky ******** for the simple minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 19 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Why the LOL? Where would you put them on the scale? On the right but not ultra right. If you think they are ultra right can you give your reasons ? 20 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Immigration dog whistling - check You get another LOL there. 21 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Their website reads like a parody of a spoons "Tim says" pamphlet. Utter populist drivel designed to pander the the Daily Wail brigade. Quite how they plan to fix the NHS in 2 years, massively cut taxation, increase armed forces and police spending is pie in the sky ******** for the simple minded. Hardly anyone reads the Daily Wail or any other newspaper these days , so throwing that out is way out of date do keep up. The word populist is has also passed it's use by date. Massive waste in the NHS quite simple to fix but with the current two party system there is no will to do so. They want to raise personnel allowances to £20k fantastic idea and it will work. Currently we take so much from people armies of the lower paid get given it back in the form of tax credits , housing allowances and other benefits. The system is now eating itself up. They take with one hand and hand it back with the other no different to digging a hole to keep someone busy and getting someone else to then fill it in. How much does it cost taking all this tax and giving it back again ? How much fraud is there in the system? But let's just write Reform off and carry on with the worn out two party system we have had doing the same crap for the last 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 6 hours ago, Insane said: On the right but not ultra right. If you think they are ultra right can you give your reasons ? You get another LOL there. Hardly anyone reads the Daily Wail or any other newspaper these days , so throwing that out is way out of date do keep up. The word populist is has also passed it's use by date. Massive waste in the NHS quite simple to fix but with the current two party system there is no will to do so. They want to raise personnel allowances to £20k fantastic idea and it will work. Currently we take so much from people armies of the lower paid get given it back in the form of tax credits , housing allowances and other benefits. The system is now eating itself up. They take with one hand and hand it back with the other no different to digging a hole to keep someone busy and getting someone else to then fill it in. How much does it cost taking all this tax and giving it back again ? How much fraud is there in the system? But let's just write Reform off and carry on with the worn out two party system we have had doing the same crap for the last 50 years. @Chunketh can wail all he wants but the fact is people are sick of the two-party system and are looking for an alternative. Reform UK are addressing the issues that those people care about, and no amount of arrogant ivory tower insults is going to change that. The share of their vote is growing every single day, and that's before Farage has even thrown his hat in the ring (which you know he will do right when it will hurt the tories the most). Whether it will actually lead to change in the UK is another matter. My personal view is that it doesn't matter who is in power, we are a failed state (in every sense: politically, financially, socially, militarily, and morally). We are one failed bond auction away from total collapse which we must go through before we can rebuild with new institutions. No politician can fix the problems we have right now, and it is unfair to expect them to. Ironically, we should be looking at recent Russian history for a taste of what's to come here. After the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia was looted by the west until Putin rose to power and started to rebuild the country, restoring it's institutions and slowly restoring pride to it's people. That's what we have to look forward to, there is no way we get there without lots of pain and toil. Edited January 30 by nero120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, nero120 said: @Chunketh can wail all he wants but the fact is people are sick of the two-party system and are looking for an alternative. Reform UK are addressing the issues that those people care about, and no amount of arrogant ivory tower insults is going to change that. The share of their vote is growing every single day, and that's before Farage has even thrown his hat in the ring (which you know he will do right when it will hurt the tories the most). Whether it will actually lead to change in the UK is another matter. My personal view is that it doesn't matter who is in power, we are a failed state (in every sense: politically, financially, socially, militarily, and morally). We are one failed bond auction away from total collapse which we must go through before we can rebuild with new institutions. No politician can fix the problems we have right now, and it is unfair to expect them to. Ironically, we should be looking at recent Russian history for a taste of what's to come here. After the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia was looted by the west until Putin rose to power and started to rebuild the country, restoring it's institutions and slowly restoring pride to it's people. That's what we have to look forward to, there is no way we get there without lots of pain and toil. No wailing at all here. If folk want to vote Reform, more power to them. The people get the government they deserve. Interesting though that you think we need to go through a crash with lots of pain....to end up in a worse place, where opposition candidates are routinely assassinated and money is siphoned off into the pockets of the closest friends of the state. Sounds awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 8 hours ago, Insane said: You get another LOL there. 8 hours ago, Chunketh said: Its dog whistling. On the surface, it looks like a reasonable policy. Only allow in the numbers that leave. Great ok, so what do we do about our declining demographics? Something not addressed in their "charter". Lets assume they somehow enrich the majority of folk and in turn they decide to suddenly have 2 kids per couple instead of the 1.54 currently achieved. It would take 30 years for the UK demography to return to a stable level (its called population momentum, look it up). So there that. 8 hours ago, Insane said: They want to raise personnel allowances to £20k fantastic idea and it will work. Currently we take so much from people armies of the lower paid get given it back in the form of tax credits , housing allowances and other benefits. The system is now eating itself up. They take with one hand and hand it back with the other no different to digging a hole to keep someone busy and getting someone else to then fill it in. How much does it cost taking all this tax and giving it back again ? How much fraud is there in the system? But let's just write Reform off and carry on with the worn out two party system we have had doing the same crap for the last 50 years. Again on the surface it looks reasonable. Hell I would get behind that, I would be massively better off financially. Only its not that simple is it, its austerity through the back door. As with all their "policies". At first glance it looks reasonable, then you scratch the surface the the paper thin veneer comes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: Great ok, so what do we do about our declining demographics? Something not addressed in their "charter". Lets assume they somehow enrich the majority of folk and in turn they decide to suddenly have 2 kids per couple instead of the 1.54 currently achieved. It would take 30 years for the UK demography to return to a stable level (its called population momentum, look it up). We have declining demographics because average working people (not relying on benefits) cannot afford them. As I have already said the system of work/benefits ect is eating itself up. At present the population has increased by over 10 million in the last 20 years (real figure will be much higher) we don't need to keep adding more and more people on the fear that the population is declining. 4 hours ago, Chunketh said: Again on the surface it looks reasonable. Hell I would get behind that, I would be massively better off financially. Only its not that simple is it, its austerity through the back door. Why is it austerity through the back door? 4 hours ago, Chunketh said: As with all their "policies". At first glance it looks reasonable, then you scratch the surface the the paper thin veneer comes away. More waffle. By the way you have still not answered my question which was what is Ultra Right Wing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Insane said: We have declining demographics because average working people (not relying on benefits) cannot afford them. As I have already said the system of work/benefits ect is eating itself up. At present the population has increased by over 10 million in the last 20 years (real figure will be much higher) we don't need to keep adding more and more people on the fear that the population is declining. So when we have 3 pensioners for every working person, how will the country afford...anything? Its not a "fear that the population is declining" Without immigration, IT IS DECLINING. Someones got to work to pay for that lovely triple lock, someones got to wipe asses on the cheap. Reforms "solution" is to balance emigration and immigration, which would be a great goal if the working population age was stable. Newsflash, without immigration its decidedly unstable. 1 hour ago, Insane said: Why is it austerity through the back door? 5 hours ago, Chunketh said: Simply put, they want to lift the tax thresholds and remove benefits to pay for it. Spending less money is austerity. Of course it wouldn't just be spending less money on benefits, they would need to spend more on policing, the courts, the prison service, the Armed forces oh and the NHS. All while trying to service a rapidly aging, non-working population that will demand they keep the triple lock and a sizeable army of care workers. Utter lunacy. It would never work unless they removed the state pension...its a benefit after all and nobody likes idle benefit scroungers do they? 1 hour ago, Insane said: More waffle. Bit like their website then eh. Looks like a Tory boy 6th former wrote down his wet dream. 1 hour ago, Insane said: By the way you have still not answered my question which was what is Ultra Right Wing? I did several posts ago. Dog whistle immigration policy - check ACC denial - check Trumpesque slogans - check I regard the current conservative party is pretty far right, elements of it routinely denying climate change meaning some of them are hard right. This lot go one stage further, so yeah... There are elements of Labour, momentum in particular that hold the crown of ultra far left. Equally baffling, equally stupid and equally thin skinned supporters when it comes to someone pointing out how shit they are and how shit their ideas are. This party does nothing other than fill the void left behind by UKIP and the Tories. The now disillusioned folk that voted in droves for Boris, Cruella and menagerie of ******wits cant bring themselves to vote conservative again. So they will turn to this bunch of muppets for representation. After all, if it didn't work the first time why not try it again when its wrapped in new shiny packaging. Do these folk need representation, absolutely! You knock yourself out and give them your vote. At some point they might win a seat and be able to have some influence in steering us towards getting PR. Politics isn't a game of football, as a pleb you don't win anything by way of reward over the other plebs. This lurch to the extremes of the political spectrum is dangerous and destabilising. It also robs us of any parliamentary time to actually get stuff done because the politicians are spending their entire time pandering to a gaggle of imbeciles on the fringes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: So when we have 3 pensioners for every working person, how will the country afford...anything? Well we won't have 3 pensioners for every working person where did you get that from? 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: Its not a "fear that the population is declining" Without immigration, IT IS DECLINING. Someones got to work to pay for that lovely triple lock, someones got to wipe asses on the cheap. But as has been said so many times before those immigrants will one day want their pensions. So you will have to carry on bringing in more and more people. It is a never ending ever increasing circle. Please explain to me if an immigrant wipes asses on the cheap how will they be paying anyone's pension? In fact they won't be paying for their own costs. Said it so many times there is no such thing as cheap labour , it is only cheap at the point of use the persons costs are made up elsewhere by other people. In fact there is more chance of the pensioner subsidising the immigrants. Pensioners pay all the same taxes apart from NI as everyone else. Pensioners with decent private or company pensions and investments will be paying tax to pay for the immigrant. 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: Simply put, they want to lift the tax thresholds and remove benefits to pay for it. Spending less money is austerity You need another lol there. If they don't take the money via tax in the first place they won't need to spend it giving it back that is not austerity. 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: Of course it wouldn't just be spending less money on benefits, they would need to spend more on policing, the courts, the prison service, the Armed forces oh and the NHS. Spending or not spending ??? This makes no sense. 4 hours ago, Chunketh said: All while trying to service a rapidly aging, non-working population that will demand they keep the triple lock and a sizeable army of care workers. Utter lunacy. It would never work unless they removed the state pension...its a benefit after all and nobody likes idle benefit scroungers do they? Reform said they want net zero immigration. The other parties just want to have unlimited immigration that is the utter lunacy. 4 hours ago, Chunketh said: Looks like a Tory boy 6th former wrote down his wet dream. Said the person who thinks low paid workers pay for others. Did you pass out primary school? 4 hours ago, Chunketh said: I did several posts ago. Dog whistle immigration policy - check ACC denial - check Trumpesque slogans - check I regard the current conservative party is pretty far right, elements of it routinely denying climate change meaning some of them are hard right. This lot go one stage further, so yeah... There are elements of Labour, momentum in particular that hold the crown of ultra far left. Equally baffling, equally stupid and equally thin skinned supporters when it comes to someone pointing out how shit they are and how shit their ideas are. This party does nothing other than fill the void left behind by UKIP and the Tories. The now disillusioned folk that voted in droves for Boris, Cruella and menagerie of ******wits cant bring themselves to vote conservative again. So they will turn to this bunch of muppets for representation. After all, if it didn't work the first time why not try it again when its wrapped in new shiny packaging. Do these folk need representation, absolutely! You knock yourself out and give them your vote. At some point they might win a seat and be able to have some influence in steering us towards getting PR. Politics isn't a game of football, as a pleb you don't win anything by way of reward over the other plebs. This lurch to the extremes of the political spectrum is dangerous and destabilising. It also robs us of any parliamentary time to actually get stuff done because the politicians are spending their entire time pandering to a gaggle of imbeciles on the fringes. Still unable to state what ultra right is. Why am I not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 minutes ago, Insane said: Well we won't have 3 pensioners for every working person where did you get that from? But as has been said so many times before those immigrants will one day want their pensions. So you will have to carry on bringing in more and more people. It is a never ending ever increasing circle. Please explain to me if an immigrant wipes asses on the cheap how will they be paying anyone's pension? In fact they won't be paying for their own costs. Said it so many times there is no such thing as cheap labour , it is only cheap at the point of use the persons costs are made up elsewhere by other people. In fact there is more chance of the pensioner subsidising the immigrants. Pensioners pay all the same taxes apart from NI as everyone else. Pensioners with decent private or company pensions and investments will be paying tax to pay for the immigrant. You need another lol there. If they don't take the money via tax in the first place they won't need to spend it giving it back that is not austerity. Spending or not spending ??? This makes no sense. Reform said they want net zero immigration. The other parties just want to have unlimited immigration that is the utter lunacy. Said the person who thinks low paid workers pay for others. Did you pass out primary school? Still unable to state what ultra right is. Why am I not surprised. Whatever. Deflection, denial, stupidity. Good luck against the dolphins /ignored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, Chunketh said: Whatever. Deflection, denial, stupidity. Good luck against the dolphins /ignored Lol. You mean your the child that when questioned on his statements ran away as he had no answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 18 minutes ago, Insane said: Lol. You mean your the child that when questioned on his statements ran away as he had no answers. I just read some of the what he wrote .....gordon freaking bennett....i have no words other than that...i need a drink lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 minutes ago, staintunerider said: I just read some of the what he wrote .....gordon freaking bennett....i have no words other than that...i need a drink lol As my ex wife used to say when she met certain kinds of people " Where do these eggs hatch from ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 35 minutes ago, staintunerider said: I just read some of the what he wrote .....gordon freaking bennett....i have no words other than that...i need a drink lol and another...starting to think this entire site is a right wing circle jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Insane said: You mean your the child that when questioned on his statements ran away as he had no answers. Oh noes, did I criticize poor reform? waaaaaa whatever will we do with our batshit policies?! No, I just decided that enough was enough. There are some good folk here, with opinions that I want to explore. Some not so much. You fall into the not so much. ACC deniers, reality deniers. Im still waiting for the first flat earther to put his head up.. Bye. Enjoy what you willingly sowed, I am sure it will come back and bite you later "I PIAD YM STMPA"!!!!! waaaaaaaaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Tice was on Jeremy Vine Show Channel 5 this morning. Vine had a piece where he made out Reform can only increase the Labour landslide. Key input to his model is Reform takes votes ONLY from the Tories, and not from Labour at all. Vine seemed to think this assumption was so beyond question that it was not even raised as a question. Whereas I think Reform will take votes from both, certainly in the "red wall" constituencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Chunketh said: Oh noes, did I criticize poor reform? waaaaaa whatever will we do with our batshit policies?! No, I just decided that enough was enough. There are some good folk here, with opinions that I want to explore. Some not so much. You fall into the not so much. ACC deniers, reality deniers. Im still waiting for the first flat earther to put his head up.. Bye. Enjoy what you willingly sowed, I am sure it will come back and bite you later "I PIAD YM STMPA"!!!!! CHILD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, kzb said: Whereas I think Reform will take votes from both, certainly in the "red wall" constituencies. +1 I am an ex Labour voter who voted Tory I won't be returning to Labour but will be voting Reform I know many others that are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 9 hours ago, Chunketh said: and another...starting to think this entire site is a right wing circle jerk. Most are just very unhappy and want more, and for other people to join in their misery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbob Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 hours ago, Insane said: Well we won't have 3 pensioners for every working person where did you get that from? But as has been said so many times before those immigrants will one day want their pensions. So you will have to carry on bringing in more and more people. It is a never ending ever increasing circle. Please explain to me if an immigrant wipes asses on the cheap how will they be paying anyone's pension? In fact they won't be paying for their own costs. Said it so many times there is no such thing as cheap labour , it is only cheap at the point of use the persons costs are made up elsewhere by other people. In fact there is more chance of the pensioner subsidising the immigrants. Pensioners pay all the same taxes apart from NI as everyone else. Pensioners with decent private or company pensions and investments will be paying tax to pay for the immigrant. You need another lol there. If they don't take the money via tax in the first place they won't need to spend it giving it back that is not austerity. Spending or not spending ??? This makes no sense. Reform said they want net zero immigration. The other parties just want to have unlimited immigration that is the utter lunacy. Said the person who thinks low paid workers pay for others. Did you pass out primary school? Still unable to state what ultra right is. Why am I not surprised. Agree. No way I'm voting Tory or the WEF loving Starmer. I think lots of people will feel the same and Reform will take votes from both Cons and Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Fury Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Latest polling in Wales: https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-welsh-westminster-senedd-independence-referendum-voting-intention-24-26-january-2024/ Quote Reform UK are outpolling Plaid Cymru in Wales. Three times the figures of the Lib Dems and the Greens. Only 8% behind the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Canal Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Implosion of UKIP yesterday makes a number of votes up for grabs across the country. They are not likely to be Conservative or Labour voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero120 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) If I were Tice, I would be: Planning with Farage for his return to frontline politics, saving a huge announcement of his return and media campaign for the just right moment - likely just after the general election is called. Targeting all brexit voting constituencies HEAVILY. Stand the best candidates in these locations, hitting all the populist talking points hard - do not let labour or the tories get a look in. This one's controversial - employ Dominic Cummings to plan their election strategy. Why? Because his strategy won the brexit referendum against all the odds Because he is associated with brexit and seen as "anti-establishment" by brexit voters Because he likely is massively p1ssed off with the tories and Boris especially for throwing him under the bus, and will work all the harder to destroy them If they do these things they will take a MASSIVE share of the vote come the next election. Not saying that will change much but it will give the establishment a bloody nose they will not long forget! Edited January 31 by nero120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 18 hours ago, Chunketh said: and another...starting to think this entire site is a right wing circle jerk. You're forgetting the rule the post truth world.....anything you disagree with is by default to be labelled "right wing" these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 26 minutes ago, nero120 said: If I were Tice, I would be: Planning with Farage for his return to frontline politics, saving a huge announcement of his return and media campaign for the just right moment - likely just after the general election is called. Targeting all brexit voting constituencies HEAVILY. Stand the best candidates in these locations, hitting all the populist talking points hard - do not let labour or the tories get a look in. This one's controversial - employ Dominic Cummings to plan their election strategy. Why? Because his strategy won the brexit referendum against all the odds Because he is associated with brexit and seen as "anti-establishment" by brexit voters Because he likely is massively p1ssed off with the tories and Boris especially for throwing him under the bus, and will work all the harder to destroy them If they do these things they will take a MASSIVE share of the vote come the next election. Not saying that will change much but it will give the establishment a bloody nose they will not long forget! I like it ! But not sure about Cummings...remember he met Sunak twice...excerpt below...what shocked me (if true) about this was the joker Sunak saying he would take government seriously after the election....so does that mean up to now it's just been for laughs ? Sunak is a cretin.....as if he would make good on any promises...not a chance...he's weak in every respect... Cummings said: “He wanted a secret deal in which I delivered the election and he promised to take government seriously after the election. But I’d rather the Tories lose than continue in office without prioritising what’s important and the voters. “I said I was only prepared to build a political machine to smash Labour and win the election if he would commit to No 10 truly prioritising the most critical things, like the scandal of nuclear weapons infrastructure, natural and engineered pandemics, the scandal of MoD procurement, AI and other technological capabilities, and the broken core government institutions which we started fixing in 2020 but Boris [Johnson] abandoned.” Thing is the broken core govt institutions don't want to be fixed...so you need a Maggie type to deal with them....Sunak he couldnt blow the skin off a rice pudding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 minutes ago, nightowl said: You're forgetting the rule the post truth world.....anything you disagree with is by default to be labelled "right wing" these days. +1 They think they can dismiss anything that gets said by using that term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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